can not reproduce HTS and TGP bugged out mid mission

[Gilligan]

Was flying mission 11 in the new Ground Pounder Sims Campaign for the Viper, Last Out: Weasels Over Syria, and while I was trying to knock out the final set of mission targets I encountered a set of bugs that were new to me and made completing the mission exceedingly difficult.

 

1st the HTS pod stopped locking targets. I was not in Markpoint mode, nor did I, to my knowledge, change any settings or do anything that would cause the HTS to stop locking targets, but I could not lock any radar emitters on the HAD screen. Specifically I was trying to get the Snow Drift Radar but I couldn't get any of the others I tried either.

 

Possibly related to this, maybe not, the TGP would not stay on the currently selected Steerpooint or locked point/area/INS track SPI. It continually popped off where I wanted it looking and, as far as I can tell, just started looking dead north of its own accord. I could CZ it back to the steerpoint for a moment, but it would jump back off to the north after somewhere between 0.5 and 5 seconds.

 

Sorry for the very large trackfile, it is a very long mission.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pr7kpe1gzdqk096bcdllc/Weasels-Last-Out-M11-Vipers-1.trk?rlkey=4xb78i7n24trubcuhz6qszcp7&st=b0i4ry0y&dl=0

 

I start experiencing the bug after the first two SA6's are gone and while trying to engage the SA11 site. Should be about 1 hour in.

Edited January 5 by Gilligan
fix typos

[Py]

I have had the same two issues several times recently, but no track file as it was in a long multiplayer mission.

The two problems (HTS not locking and TGP slewing off into the sky every few seconds) both seem to occur at the same time so are likely connected.

Turning the TGP/HTS power off and on again doesn't fix it, neither does doing a rearm.

I have to get a new jet if this happens, very annoying.

[Grodin]

Sometimes i get this too but i have managed to fix it by powering both the HARM and HTS off and on again. TGP pointing at the sky sounds like it's trying to look at the HTS designated target which is nothing when it fails to lock.

[Lord Vader]

We've heard about this before but unfortunately we could never catch it ourselves and all the supplied tracks were not usable due to length or scripting. 

In the past we've identified a possible issue with script generated threats. It seems some scripts activate or deactivate (spawn or despawn) threats differently from normal triggers and this seem to generate issues with the HTS. This could be causing your problems.

Again, if you see this happening in non-scripted missions, preferably in short tracks, we would very much like to have those tracks. 

[Gilligan]

10 hours ago, Py said:

I have had the same two issues several times recently, but no track file as it was in a long multiplayer mission.

The two problems (HTS not locking and TGP slewing off into the sky every few seconds) both seem to occur at the same time so are likely connected.

Turning the TGP/HTS power off and on again doesn't fix it, neither does doing a rearm.

I have to get a new jet if this happens, very annoying.

I've seen at least one other thread on it happening in multiplayer. I agree they are likely connected, since the HTS can command the slew of the TGP, if the HTS is malfunctioning and directing the TPG to slew somewhere weird then that makes sense. 

When I turned both of them off to egress from the target area my Steerpoint SPI's stayed where they were supposed to be instead of jumping around like they were when both sensors were powered on. So at least that "Fixes" the Steerpoint SPI from moving. I didn't try powering them back on to see if that would change anything as far as getting the sensors working again, however. 

8 hours ago, Grodin said:

Sometimes i get this too but i have managed to fix it by powering both the HARM and HTS off and on again. TGP pointing at the sky sounds like it's trying to look at the HTS designated target which is nothing when it fails to lock.

Interesting, if it ever happens again I'll have to try that. I agree it seems like the HTS bugging out is commanding the TGP to slew at "nothing" or whatever defaults the HTS reverts to when it is failing to lock. 

2 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

We've heard about this before but unfortunately we could never catch it ourselves and all the supplied tracks were not usable due to length or scripting. 

In the past we've identified a possible issue with script generated threats. It seems some scripts activate or deactivate (spawn or despawn) threats differently from normal triggers and this seem to generate issues with the HTS. This could be causing your problems.

Again, if you see this happening in non-scripted missions, preferably in short tracks, we would very much like to have those tracks. 

That is unfortunate, as this bug seems to be relegated to longer or more scripted flights/missions. 

The issue being caused by threats activating/deactivating makes sense, as a major part of the Weasels over Syria campaign are scripts that try and simulate more realistic SAM behavior by having them power on at specific points/ranges and then off again to spoof HARM shots. So it's possible I was locking/attempting to lock the Snow Drift during one of these scripted power on/off cycles, which caused the HTS to wig out. 

If it happens again in a shorter track I'll be sure to save it. I've sense completed that mission and one other long mission which used the HTS and TGP pods heavily over a longer, scripted mission with similar SAM behavior but did not experience the bug again. 

[Py]

17 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

We've heard about this before but unfortunately we could never catch it ourselves and all the supplied tracks were not usable due to length or scripting. 

In the past we've identified a possible issue with script generated threats. It seems some scripts activate or deactivate (spawn or despawn) threats differently from normal triggers and this seem to generate issues with the HTS. This could be causing your problems.

Again, if you see this happening in non-scripted missions, preferably in short tracks, we would very much like to have those tracks. 

That does sound likely - the server I was on (✯✯✯✯ Burning Skies (PVE Command Centre) ✯✯✯✯) seemed to be using some kind of IADS script and I had been using the HTS to locate SAMs before the buggy behaviour occurred.

I'm sure it's much harder to fix this when scripts are involved, but still the HTS should be able to handle threats appearing/disappearing.

[Moonshine]

Not 100% sure but it might be worth exploring the case of „turn a SAM off while HTS is locked on it“. I had that happen too no matter if „trigger based SAM shutdow“ (normal ME triggers) or IADS script controlled ones like when they shut down detecting a HARM.

 

since that self protection against anti radiation missiles is now also possible without external scripts (standard ME function) it might too cause the issue. 

[Raptor9]

I've tested using the HTS and TGP to target a radar that is shutdown using all three of the following methods after an AGM-88 is fired upon it:

1. Evasion of ARM advanced waypoint action.
2. Unit Emission Off triggered action.
3. Group AI Off triggered action.

In all three of these methods, I was still able to use the HTS and TGP as expected, such as designating/un-designating the radar on the HAD MFD format and slewing the TGP after the HTS put the TGP line-of-sight in the vicinity of the radar's location. This included combinations of the following actions:

• Designating the radar on HAD prior to the radar emissions ceasing.
• Designating the radar on HAD after the radar emissions ceasing.
• Designating the radar on HAD after radar began emitting again.
• With any remaining onboard AGM-88's powered.
• With any remaining onboard AGM-88's powered off.
• Switching to a different SMS profile entirely, such as Mk82 in CCRP.

In all of these tests, I never had the HTS nor TGP fail to perform as expected.

I have seen instances on multiplayer servers in which custom scripts were being used to simulate such behavior with air defense radars. In these instances, my first clue that something was amiss was the fact that as the radar emissions were switched off, the corresponding symbol on the HAD MFD format was also disappearing immediately. The expected behavior of the HTS pod is that when a radar emission ceases, the corresponding symbol on the HAD MFD format will remain static for 4 minutes in memory (2 minutes after which it will turn green), which still allows the radar to be designated and/or attacked. The fact that the symbol was being removed immediately is a sign that there was game logic being broken somehow, and afterward I too was having trouble designating, or un-designating, symbols on the HAD MFD format. But when tested in a mission without custom scripts inserted, I was unable to replicate the behavior.

[Gilligan]

Seems like a pretty rare/niche occurrence and that it will be difficult to nail down exactly what is going on. I appreciate you guys taking a closer look at it, however. 

[Moonshine]

Thanks for the test, good insight.

i do know that some servers/scripts dont just „shut down“ things, instead it effectively „despawns“ the units as the player moves a certain distance away. Would explain the disappearance you are describing and probably the next thing to test. 

[ST0RM]

Had this issue last night. On the HAD (SOI), a SA-8 was displayed. Cursor over and PGM5, TMS'd to lock and PGM2. SOI'd the TGP to get coords to mark pt and the HAD lost the lock. Back to SOI on the HAD and none of the SAM sites could be locked anymore.
Same as others. Long MP missions, so no track. 

[UncleStains]

I'm not sure if this is related, but if you have the MARK page up on the DED you are not able to use TMS up on the HAD to lock targets. Just dobber left to get back to the CNI page and you can lock HAD targets again. No idea if is this is accurate to real life. 

[TobiasA]

I think it happens when someone commands TDOA while a TDOA is already ongoing.

TMS left resolves the issue in some cases. I don't know if it is the same problem though.