Thinking of makeing the switch from Track IR to VR

[kmaultsby]

Hello all, I am new to this and just joint a squad and one of the pilots suggested I should switch to VR because I was having trouble seeing small objects on the ground trucks tanks etc.  I have some questions. How do you do microphone and hear other pilots in multiplayer? I was thinking of purchasing the Meta Quest 3.  Will my computer be ok to handle a VR setup.  I am also using the WinWing MIP and ICP in my setup now. Any recommendations or suggestions? Computer specs below.

Processor         AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 8-Core Processor              4.20 GHz

Installed RAM 32.0 GB (31.2 GB usable)

System type    64-bit operating system, x64-based processor

 32 GB RAM, 2Tb ssd,

Edition                Windows 11 Pro

Version               23H2

Nvidia RTX 4070

 

Edited March 28 by kmaultsby

[Qcumber]

18 minutes ago, kmaultsby said:

Hello all, I am new to this and just joint a squad and one of the pilots suggested I should switch to VR because I was having trouble seeing small objects on the ground trucks tanks etc.  I have some questions. How do you do microphone and hear other pilots in multiplayer? I was thinking of purchasing the Meta Quest 3.  Will my computer be ok to handle a VR setup.  I am also using the WinWing MIP and ICP in my setup now. Any recommendations or suggestions? Computer specs below.

Processor         AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 8-Core Processor              4.20 GHz

Installed RAM 32.0 GB (31.2 GB usable)

System type    64-bit operating system, x64-based processor

 32 GB RAM, 2Tb ssd,

Edition                Windows 11 Pro

Version               23H2

Nvidia RTX 4070

 

Your system should run a Q3 fine but you might benefit from 64Gb RAM. I have recently upgraded from a 5800x3d and 4070. You will need to compromise on settings but it's still a good experience. There is a lot of experience now on this forum to support anyone new to VR. 

[kmaultsby]

1 minute ago, Qcumber said:

Your system should run a Q3 fine but you might benefit from 64Gb RAM. I have recently upgraded from a 5800x3d and 4070. You will need to compromise on settings but it's still a good experience. There is a lot of experience now on this forum to support anyone new to VR. 

Thank you.  You mention I may need to compromise on the settings, which component is the more the bottleneck, the CPU, Graphics card or both?

[speed-of-heat]

@Qcumberhas already said your PC should handle the Q3 fine,  my advice is for  the MIP invest in some stick on rubber feet, and place them on strategic buttons to help you center your fingers 

1 minute ago, kmaultsby said:

Thank you.  You mention I may need to compromise on the settings, which component is the more the bottleneck, the CPU, Graphics card or both?

Graphics card is going to be a bottle neck, the CPU is always a bottle neck in DCS

[Qcumber]

1 minute ago, kmaultsby said:

Thank you.  You mention I may need to compromise on the settings, which component is the more the bottleneck, the CPU, Graphics card or both?

Your GPU and RAM will be the bottlenecks. But I would not upgrade the 4070 yet, unless you are already considering it. You can get some good results using Quad Views Foveated Rendering. 

2 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

CPU is always a bottle neck in DCS

For a 4070 I think the 5800x3d is enough. 

31 minutes ago, kmaultsby said:

I was thinking of purchasing the Meta Quest 3.

Another option is a Quest Pro. The eye tracking makes a massive difference. 

[kmaultsby]

26 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

Your GPU and RAM will be the bottlenecks. But I would not upgrade the 4070 yet, unless you are already considering it. You can get some good results using Quad Views Foveated Rendering. 

For a 4070 I think the 5800x3d is enough. 

Another option is a Quest Pro. The eye tracking makes a massive difference. 

Quest Pro at $900 is a little out of my budget. What is 5800x3d?

[Qcumber]

32 minutes ago, kmaultsby said:

Quest Pro at $900 is a little out of my budget

You should be able to pick up a QP less than that, especially used, depending on where you live. I managed to get a used one (in mint condition) for £300 about 12 months ago. Other users on this forum have been able to get new ones for less than the Q3. It could be worth looking around. 

35 minutes ago, kmaultsby said:

What is 5800x3d?

Previous generation to your AMD 7800x3d. 

[Dragon1-1]

Also, VR is expensive, period. Unless you buy used, or an older generation headset, you're in for a big spend.

[Blackrat_UK]

Microphone and speakers are built into the quest 3 or you can wear a headphone/earbuds over the top.

I have a quest 3 and very happy with it but you may need to buy a more comfortable head mount also if you are going direct link you will need a cable. People do use a wifi 6 link but then there are battery considerations for extended gameplay. Personally I bought a link cable which is plugged into USB3 and also a power socket to keep things charged all the time. I am not worried having a cable hanging off the headset.

[1BRAVO9]

I'll start by saying that I want to like VR.

I grew up in the 80s with Lawn Mower Man and the idea of living long enough to experience some type of VR was a dream of every kid my age.

I've tried VR twice, and both times it fell flat with me.

The first time was 7 or 8 years ago. 

That was definitely a no-go, you had to have multiple cables connected to the PC, you had to set sensors out all over the room that had to be connected to the PC, the screen door affect was ridiculous, and any time you wanted to play it just took too much time to prepare to play. It was time that could've been spent playing the game.

The second time was this weekend, coincidentally.

My TrackIR has been giving me problems lately. First, my powered sensor quit working, and then last week one of my reflective stickers fell off my hat clip and the tracker is acting crazy. So I was looking into replacing the sensor. Then I thought maybe I just need to replace the whole thing.

So after looking into the cost of a new TrackIR or a Tobi, I had a thought, maybe the time and technology is right for me to try VR again.

After doing some research I decided on the Quest 3

Believe it or not I'm much more disappointed the second time than I was the first time. My expectations weren't that high the first time, but the second time saying I was disappointed is an understatement.............

Here are what I consider the pros and cons:

Pros:

1.) The 3D like imagery of the cockpit is out of the park. So much so that it will trick you.

2.) The ability to track objects (once spotted) outside of your cockpit, either on the ground or in the air, is somewhat better. 

Unfortunately, that was it for me.

 

Cons:

1.) It was extremely uncomfortable for me. I've heard others say it was comfortable for them, and I'm not discounting their opinion, but from my experience it was very uncomfortable, and it wasn't from fatigue of wearing it, the headset was uncomfortable immediately upon putting it on my head. There is no way I could wear that for any length of time and enjoy the game.

2.) The screen door affect is still there, and it is still very visible. I will admit that it is better than previously but it's still there. Again, I've heard people say it's almost unrecognizable, and I respect their opinion, but for me it is immediately recognizable.

3.) Regardless of how you look at it (pun intended) your graphics take a serious hit. Depending on what monitor you are accustomed to viewing really depends on the hit. I have a somewhat large 4k monitor and the downgrade for me is just unacceptable.

4.) You may be able to track objects better, but you have to locate them first. I think because of the graphics downgrade it is harder to spot objects, especially if you are playing without the red labels on the objects. 

5.) Although its much better, the VR is still a pain in the rear. Its just one more thing you have to think about when playing a game. Its one more thing that has to be connected physically (cable or not), its one more thing that has a battery, and its one more thing that you have to worry about being connected software wise.

 

If you are looking to trade graphics quality for immersion maybe.

And that immersion is worth the pain in the butt of things such as hassle and discomfort, maybe the VR is for you.

Unfortunately for me, I think we are still years away from a headset replacing a monitor.

 

Just my dos centavos.

Edited March 31 by 1BRAVO9

[=475FG= Dawger]

I would sell my entire setup if I couldn’t fly in VR. 
 

VR is the closest to real flying I have experienced. 
 

Second was full motion simulator replicating the actual aircraft cockpit exactly. 
 

Third was a cardboard box in the backyard with me making my own motor noises. 
 

Playing on a monitor doesn’t make the top five. 

[Phantom711]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb 1BRAVO9:

Its one more thing that has to be connected physically (cable or not), its one more thing that has a battery, and its one more thing that you have to worry about being connected software wise.

And how is your TrackIR connected?

And how is the battery of any relevance when the VR headset is connected via cable?

Edited March 31 by Phantom711

[MADLOU]

41 minutes ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

Third was a cardboard box in the backyard with me making my own motor noises. 
 

Now that was pure immersion, joy and fun back in the day!!!!!

[MADLOU]

5 hours ago, 1BRAVO9 said:

I'll start by saying that I want to like VR.

I grew up in the 80s with Lawn Mower Man and the idea of living long enough to experience some type of VR was a dream of every kid my age.

I've tried VR twice, and both times it fell flat with me.

The first time was 7 or 8 years ago. 

That was definitely a no-go, you had to have multiple cables connected to the PC, you had to set sensors out all over the room that had to be connected to the PC, the screen door affect was ridiculous, and any time you wanted to play it just took too much time to prepare to play. It was time that could've been spent playing the game.

The second time was this weekend, coincidentally.

My TrackIR has been giving me problems lately. First, my powered sensor quit working, and then last week one of my reflective stickers fell off my hat clip and the tracker is acting crazy. So I was looking into replacing the sensor. Then I thought maybe I just need to replace the whole thing.

So after looking into the cost of a new TrackIR or a Tobi, I had a thought, maybe the time and technology is right for me to try VR again.

After doing some research I decided on the Quest 3

Believe it or not I'm much more disappointed the second time than I was the first time. My expectations weren't that high the first time, but the second time saying I was disappointed is an understatement.............

Here are what I consider the pros and cons:

Pros:

1.) The 3D like imagery of the cockpit is out of the park. So much so that it will trick you.

2.) The ability to track objects (once spotted) outside of your cockpit, either on the ground or in the air, is somewhat better. 

Unfortunately, that was it for me.

 

Cons:

1.) It was extremely uncomfortable for me. I've heard others say it was comfortable for them, and I'm not discounting their opinion, but from my experience it was very uncomfortable, and it wasn't from fatigue of wearing it, the headset was uncomfortable immediately upon putting it on my head. There is no way I could wear that for any length of time and enjoy the game.

2.) The screen door affect is still there, and it is still very visible. I will admit that it is better than previously but it's still there. Again, I've heard people say it's almost unrecognizable, and I respect their opinion, but for me it is immediately recognizable.

3.) Regardless of how you look at it (pun intended) your graphics take a serious hit. Depending on what monitor you are accustomed to viewing really depends on the hit. I have a somewhat large 4k monitor and the downgrade for me is just unacceptable.

4.) You may be able to track objects better, but you have to locate them first. I think because of the graphics downgrade it is harder to spot objects, especially if you are playing without the red labels on the objects. 

5.) Although its much better, the VR is still a pain in the rear. Its just one more thing you have to think about when playing a game. Its one more thing that has to be connected physically (cable or not), its one more thing that has a battery, and its one more thing that you have to worry about being connected software wise.

 

If you are looking to trade graphics quality for immersion maybe.

And that immersion is worth the pain in the butt of things such as hassle and discomfort, maybe the VR is for you.

Unfortunately for me, I think we are still years away from a headset replacing a monitor.

 

Just my dos centavos.

Its VERY pricey but from what Ive read and heard the new Pimax VR headsets are very close to monitors in graphical quality.  Also, there are several aftermarket head straps and facemasks you can get for any VR which make the headset very comfortable, some come with extra batteries you can swap out and some with fans built in.

I am one of those people who have never noticed a screendoor effect on my Quest 2, Questt 3 or HP Reverb.  In fact, I dont even know what "screen door effect" is (and maybe that's my problem LOL).

I will agree setting up VRs can be a litttle bit of an annoyance but to me (and many other) its well worth it.  And that's coming from someone who has trackir and triple 4k 55 inch monitors.  I will say, however, VR does not look great in all games.  But I think it's currently great in DCS.

[=475FG= Dawger]

1 minute ago, MADLOU said:

Its VERY pricey but from what Ive read and heard the new Pimax VR headsets are very close to monitors in graphical quality.  Also, there are several aftermarket head straps and facemasks you can get for any VR which make the headset very comfortable, some come with extra batteries you can swap out and some with fans built in.

I am one of those people who have never noticed a screendoor effect on my Quest 2, Questt 3 or HP Reverb.  In fact, I dont even know what "screen door effect" is (and maybe that's my problem LOL).

I will agree setting up VRs can be a litttle bit of an annoyance but to me (and many other) its well worth it.  And that's coming from someone who has trackir and triple 4k 55 inch monitors.  I will say, however, VR does not look great in all games.  But I think it's currently great in DCS.

There was noticeable screen door in the Oculus but nothing I have used since then has any screen door effect. 

NOTE: "Screen door effect" is the ability to see individual pixels, resulting in a grid like appearance. At today's VR resolutions, you aren't going to see individual pixels.

 

[Qcumber]

4 minutes ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

There was noticeable screen door in the Oculus but nothing I have used since then has any screen door effect. 

NOTE: "Screen door effect" is the ability to see individual pixels, resulting in a grid like appearance. At today's VR resolutions, you aren't going to see individual pixels.

 

Screen door is really obvious on the Rift S but I don't notice it on my Quest Pro. Weirdly I did on the Pico 4 even though it's higher resolution. 

[Cali]

I'm in the same boat, have had TrackIR since the early 2000's and love it. However, I just bought a Quest 3 and it should be here tomorrow. This is my current set up,
Ryzen 7 3.8GHz
64GB RAM
RTX 3070

Looking at upgrading the vc to at least a 4070.

[1BRAVO9]

17 hours ago, Cali said:

I'm in the same boat, have had TrackIR since the early 2000's and love it. However, I just bought a Quest 3 and it should be here tomorrow. This is my current set up,
Ryzen 7 3.8GHz
64GB RAM
RTX 3070

Looking at upgrading the vc to at least a 4070.

 

I just returned my Quest 3 yesterday.

 

My experience wasn't all that good, I hope you have a much better experience.

 

Maybe my issues are particular to me.

 

Let's hope you love it and it works out for you.

[SharpeXB]

55 minutes ago, 1BRAVO9 said:

I just returned my Quest 3 yesterday.

 

My experience wasn't all that good, I hope you have a much better experience.

I’ve tried on the Quest 3 in a store and was surprised how blurry the image still is despite the higher resolution. I’ve used an original Rift and perhaps an Index (at work) and the improvement didn’t seem like much. I couldn’t imagine playing a flight sim in it. The other aspect that gets me with VR is the mask effect of the headset, like wearing a scuba mask and that just breaks the reality which otherwise is pretty incredible. If VR had 20/20 equivalent resolution and like a 200d FOV that would be something. But that’s probably not possible anywhere in the near future, maybe never. 

[LucShep]

As someone who decided to go into same adventure two years back, I can tell you about an important thing that you should not ignore....
VR headsets render scenes twice (for each eye), for the stereoscopic view that each screen needs to be provide (POV that is slightly different from each other).

This translates into much, much higher hardware requirements than even for a 4K screen. More over, the sensitivity to frametimes and framerate are amplified ten fold.
Meaning, you'll need a considerably beefy system to make it run smooth and pleasant all the time (not easy, even with reprojection), with every DCS module and map.

Also, be prepared to fiddle with settings on and on, read and learn stuff, etc, until you reach a balance of usage (performance vs quality), for which settings end up sacrificed.
You need to be patient and willing for that; if you aren't then I don't think it's for you. 

I do agree that DCS in VR is a whole new experience of immersion (amazing!) but it is a different animal and the current iteration of DCS is (still) way too demanding IMHO.
And why I ended up using a much older version to far better effect (the one in my signature). 
 

Edited April 2 by LucShep

[Qcumber]

To expand on what LucShep said, VR is not plug and play and takes a lot of time and effort to get good results. Out of the box, and without any previous experience with VR, the results of any headset can be underwhelming. 

That said, if you don't get on with the comfort factor and "scuba dive" experience, then it's probably not worth taking further at the moment. 

It won't be long before we have much smaller form factor headsets at a reasonable price. By then hopefully they will be a lot easier to use. 

[Wali763]

On 3/28/2025 at 7:17 PM, Qcumber said:

Your system should run a Q3 fine but you might benefit from 64Gb RAM. I have recently upgraded from a 5800x3d and 4070. You will need to compromise on settings but it's still a good experience. There is a lot of experience now on this forum to support anyone new to VR. 

I upgraded from 32GB to 64GB (same brand DDR5-6000 CL30 with two sticks) some time ago and it did not make a difference for me. I only play SP though.

[kmaultsby]

On 3/28/2025 at 12:32 PM, Dragon1-1 said:

Also, VR is expensive, period. Unless you buy used, or an older generation headset, you're in for a big spend.

I see the price will be high.  How about the Pimax Crystal Light vs Q3 pro?

[kmaultsby]

Ok, I have another question.  With the VR headset on, how do you turn dials and switches in the cockpit?  I have the WinWing ICP and MFD'S.

[Dragon1-1]

Use the mouse for everything that's not on the switch panel. For things that are, you can easily feel them out.