Tone down the 25mm AA gun

[Gunfreak]

Not directly Corsair.  But don't know where else to put it. 

But the 2x25mm AAA is insanely good. It's accurate, fast shooting, track you like it uses radar and had a long range. 

But this is what Wikipedia writes 

Quote

The Type 96 was a mediocre weapon compared to its contemporaries in other navies. It was hampered by slow training and elevating speeds (even in power-operated triple mounts), excessive vibration and muzzle flash, and that the ammunition feed was via a 15-round fixed magazine, which necessitated ceasing fire every time the magazine had to be changed.^[10] According to "US Naval Technical Mission to Japan report O-47(N)-2", all magazines had to be loaded by hand as no specialized loading equipment was ever developed. Overall, it was more comparable to the 20 mm Oerlikon, though vastly inferior to the 40mm Bofors weapons used by the US and allies in every respect except rate of fire (and only barely in that respect: the Bofors could put out a sustained 120 rounds per minute because of its constant-fire top-fed ammo clip design, whereas the 25mm's frequent ammo box changes lowered its nominal rate of fire to only half of its theoretical maximum of 260 rounds per minute).^[11]

The Japanese ranked in order of seriousness the problems with the gun as:

• Elevation and traverse were too slow, even with powered mounts
• The sights were ineffective against high speed targets
• Firing the multiple mounts caused excessive vibration, which reduced accuracy and prevented effective target tracking
• Too little ammunition in each magazine resulted in a low overall rate of fire

This is not how the 25mm behaves in DCS. Right now it early feels like the most dangerous AAA in ww2. At least as dangerous as the 4x20mm the Germans have.

Edited June 25 by Gunfreak

[Mistermann]

Amen!  I removed them from missions because of their OP.

[peachpossum]

yeah these are some vicious AA guns, and really tiny to spot and hit too!

[Firebugs]

This is a "thing" with DCS ground units in general.  I don't know enough about mission building to know if this is something tunable by the mission creator or if it's hard wired into DCS, but most of the machineguns and AA cannons provide a perfect firing solution for your instantaneous position+vector.  In other words, if you fly straight and at the same speed, no matter how fast or at what relative angle, they will hit you with almost 100% accuracy.

For a radar guided ZSU-23 or Gepard or whatever, sure I get it... But the co-ax on a Panzer 4 turret.. give me a break.  The same thing for manually cranked Flak 30/38's, Flakvierlings, Type 96, etc...  Even the non-radar ZSU's.  There should be some hard-coded in dispersion and/or inaccuracy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they should never hit, but right now it's extremely easy to avoid in the wrong way, and extremely easy to get hit doing things that should be relatively safe-- You simply make sure you make a change in your vector.  For example, if you dive to shoot rockets or MG's, point the nose well below the target, then continually pull up through the target and time your shot as you cross the target.  You can also time a straight-to-the-target blip in that pull through to coincide during a reload or pause between bursts...  HOWEVER, that is purely a "DCS-ism" as far as I'm concerned.  You should be able to do low altitude high aspect high speed pass-bys of manually operated AAA at moderate distance with some level of safety because that shot should be very low probability of hit for the AA gun.  In DCS you don't dare because it will light you up.

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, Firebugs said:

This is a "thing" with DCS ground units in general.  I don't know enough about mission building to know if this is something tunable by the mission creator or if it's hard wired into DCS, but most of the machineguns and AA cannons provide a perfect firing solution for your instantaneous position+vector.  In other words, if you fly straight and at the same speed, no matter how fast or at what relative angle, they will hit you with almost 100% accuracy.

For a radar guided ZSU-23 or Gepard or whatever, sure I get it... But the co-ax on a Panzer 4 turret.. give me a break.  The same thing for manually cranked Flak 30/38's, Flakvierlings, Type 96, etc...  Even the non-radar ZSU's.  There should be some hard-coded in dispersion and/or inaccuracy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they should never hit, but right now it's extremely easy to avoid in the wrong way, and extremely easy to get hit doing things that should be relatively safe-- You simply make sure you make a change in your vector.  For example, if you dive to shoot rockets or MG's, point the nose well below the target, then continually pull up through the target and time your shot as you cross the target.  You can also time a straight-to-the-target blip in that pull through to coincide during a reload or pause between bursts...  HOWEVER, that is purely a "DCS-ism" as far as I'm concerned.  You should be able to do low altitude high aspect high speed pass-bys of manually operated AAA at moderate distance with some level of safety because that shot should be very low probability of hit for the AA gun.  In DCS you don't dare because it will light you up.

You can't do anything with the accuracy logic. However as I listened. It was slow to turn and traverse. That at least can be modeled. 

If i know exactly the range the guns are set for I can decrease the engagements range in the editor. To match the 800 meters used in late war. But since I don't know what range they are set for in default. I can't change it. Mabye they are just set for 800 meters and it just feels ike they are following you all the way home as the islands are so small. 

[Reflected]

Agreed, even at average skill it’s way more accurate than the German 20mm

[percivaldanvers]

Something I've also noticed is that it seems to take considerably more hits on this AA piece than others to kill it. Most WWII flak and even zu-23s seem to go up almost immediately but it takes a really sustained burst to shut the Type 96 down. 

[Gunfreak]

39 minutes ago, percivaldanvers said:

Something I've also noticed is that it seems to take considerably more hits on this AA piece than others to kill it. Most WWII flak and even zu-23s seem to go up almost immediately but it takes a really sustained burst to shut the Type 96 down. 

I've also seen AI corsairs hit really really close with 2 HVAR rockets and not damge the 2X25mm much at all.

[Reflected]

Yes I noticed the indestructibility too.