Skrzatek Posted August 24 Posted August 24 Hey, I'm wondering how the F-16 radar uses its antenna in A-G mode. Antenna elevation doesn't affect the image (but antenna azimuth does), and the radar scans the entire area in front of the aircraft and directly below it simultaneously. 1
Skrzatek Posted August 24 Author Posted August 24 @skywalker22 Unfortunately, this video is not the answer to my question and provides too little explanation (more from an user point of view, not technical).
Solution Tholozor Posted August 24 Solution Posted August 24 Funny enough this has been brought up before a few years ago: 2 REAPER 51 | Tholozor VFA-136 (c.2007): https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3305981/ Arleigh Burke Destroyer Pack (2020): https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313752/
Skrzatek Posted August 24 Author Posted August 24 So if I understand correctly, the only true word in F-16's "Air to Ground Radar" is "ground"?
skywalker22 Posted August 24 Posted August 24 40 minutes ago, Skrzatek said: So if I understand correctly, the only true word in F-16's "Air to Ground Radar" is "ground"? From air to ground. It's also "Air to Air".
Skrzatek Posted August 24 Author Posted August 24 @skywalker22 I already knew before that "Air to Air" part was poorly simulated, now I was only wondering about A-G.
RogueSpecterGaming Posted August 25 Posted August 25 7 hours ago, Skrzatek said: So if I understand correctly, the only true word in F-16's "Air to Ground Radar" is "ground"? Are you thinking that the phrase "Air-to-Ground" means that it should have an "Air" capability to the radar while also being able to have the "Ground" capability?? Are you thinking it should show you air targets as well?? 1 My PC: GPU-AMD 6800XT OC / CPU- AMD RYZEN 5800X OC / 32 GB RAM 3200Mhz / 1TB SSD / 2TB HDD / 500GB M.2 / Monitor: 34" Ultrawide Samsung 1000R Curve / WinWing F16EX HOTAS / TM Cougar MFDs / TM TPR Rudder Pedals / TrackIR5 / ICP
Ivandrov Posted August 25 Posted August 25 (edited) Air-to-ground radar is correct. It is a radar used in the air, and this mode is used to scan for and map ground returns. Edited August 25 by Ivandrov
Skrzatek Posted August 25 Author Posted August 25 @RogueSpecterGaming No, I am thinking that the phrase "Air to Ground Radar" should mean that there is a radar in the air that is emitting radio waves to the ground, not a fancy looking F10 map plotted on MFD. 1
Furiz Posted August 25 Posted August 25 (edited) 14 hours ago, Ivandrov said: Air-to-ground radar is correct. It is a radar used in the air, and this mode is used to scan for and map ground returns. I think you misunderstood what the issue is here. no matter where the nose is pointed it will always scan the ground, when in some cases it is not physically possible to turn the antenna to the ground while the nose is pointed 85 degrees up. Like in this image: Edited August 25 by Furiz 1
Ivandrov Posted August 26 Posted August 26 (edited) 4 hours ago, Furiz said: I think you misunderstood what the issue is here. no matter where the nose is pointed it will always scan the ground, when in some cases it is not physically possible to turn the antenna to the ground while the nose is pointed 85 degrees up. Like in this image: This is the issue presented in the linked topic. There's no mention of any kind of nose angle in OP's original post. Also that was a reply to a flippant comment. As far as any updates to the A2G radar goes. They are likely very low priority as neither most players nor the real life pilots seemed to like to use it. Edited August 26 by Ivandrov
RogueSpecterGaming Posted August 26 Posted August 26 4 hours ago, Furiz said: I think you misunderstood what the issue is here. no matter where the nose is pointed it will always scan the ground, when in some cases it is not physically possible to turn the antenna to the ground while the nose is pointed 85 degrees up. Like in this image: Yeah, that's weird. Lmao maybe we will get better simulation in the future. 1 My PC: GPU-AMD 6800XT OC / CPU- AMD RYZEN 5800X OC / 32 GB RAM 3200Mhz / 1TB SSD / 2TB HDD / 500GB M.2 / Monitor: 34" Ultrawide Samsung 1000R Curve / WinWing F16EX HOTAS / TM Cougar MFDs / TM TPR Rudder Pedals / TrackIR5 / ICP
Skrzatek Posted August 26 Author Posted August 26 14 hours ago, Ivandrov said: There's no mention of any kind of nose angle in OP's original post. From my post: "Antenna elevation doesn't affect the image (but antenna azimuth does), and the radar scans the entire area in front of the aircraft and directly below it simultaneously." Current F-16's "A-G radar" scans the whole ground, no matter what is the antenna elevation (it can even point up into sky). Scanning terrain while in high pitch angles is related to this behaviour. 1
TobiasA Posted August 26 Posted August 26 DBSP2 can even scan outside of the scan volume in some cases when entered before the target went out of scope.
skywalker22 Posted August 27 Posted August 27 (edited) On 8/25/2025 at 9:31 PM, Furiz said: I think you misunderstood what the issue is here. no matter where the nose is pointed it will always scan the ground, when in some cases it is not physically possible to turn the antenna to the ground while the nose is pointed 85 degrees up. Like in this image: What do you mean it always scans the ground? This can't be, radar doesn't know what the ground is. It is scanning what the radar sees in it's the gimbal limits (120deg vertical and horizontal), and no matter where the aircraft is pointing. And based on what is sees, it maps on the MFD. If sky, it's all black, same as the sea, all else has some different gray color variations. The question is where is the radar pointed when in Ground mode?! In A2A you can manually set where does it look, by changing elevation, but in the A2G? Is it pointed straight ahead, is it level with the aircraft, or is it pointing downwards, towards the ground, if so whats the angle (based on level flight, or based on aircraft direction) - before applying any filters? Maybe @RogueSpecterGaming can exapin in more professional way. Edited August 27 by skywalker22
RogueSpecterGaming Posted August 27 Posted August 27 (edited) 49 minutes ago, skywalker22 said: What do you mean it always scans the ground? This can't be, radar doesn't know what the ground is. It is scanning what the radar sees in it's the gimbal limits (120deg vertical and horizontal), and no matter where the aircraft is pointing. And based on what is sees, it maps on the MFD. If sky, it's all black, same as the sea, all else has some different gray color variations. The question is where is the radar pointed when in Ground mode?! In A2A you can manually set where does it look, by changing elevation, but in the A2G? Is it pointed straight ahead, is it level with the aircraft, or is it pointing downwards, towards the ground, if so whats the angle (based on level flight, or based on aircraft direction) - before applying any filters? Maybe @RogueSpecterGaming can exapin in more professional way. He was just explaining in more detail what the issue is. He isn't saying it should be able to present an image while pointing towards the sky. He is saying it shouldn't and provides examples of it doing what it should not be able to. This issue has to deal with how ED modelled the A-G radar function of the jet. And I am sure they are tracking. Edit: not sure why it posted the same thing twice. Edited August 27 by RogueSpecterGaming My PC: GPU-AMD 6800XT OC / CPU- AMD RYZEN 5800X OC / 32 GB RAM 3200Mhz / 1TB SSD / 2TB HDD / 500GB M.2 / Monitor: 34" Ultrawide Samsung 1000R Curve / WinWing F16EX HOTAS / TM Cougar MFDs / TM TPR Rudder Pedals / TrackIR5 / ICP
Skrzatek Posted August 28 Author Posted August 28 @skywalker22 Well, this radar for sure knows what the ground is. Easiest solution would be at least adding some if-elses, that would act as antenna elevation. Harder solution is to code real raycasting into both a2a and a2g modes, with using 3d main lobe and side lobes model. This would provide realistic terrain image in a-g mode and realistic ground clutter and false contacts in a-g mode.
Skrzatek Posted August 28 Author Posted August 28 @RogueSpecterGaming I am sure they are not tracking, as F-16 is out of the early access, so it's radar simulation is treated as complete. 1
Avio Posted August 28 Posted August 28 On a separate note, in EXP mode the radar still maps all ahead. Should’t there be a doppler blind sector in front, as shown in Wag’s video 3 years ago? Also in that video he was at just 10 nm from the target. That is almost right overhead, well within potential threats. Anything further than 10+ nm the radar could hardly map out any useful sight. Much prefer the F15E radar, which can map even small target out to 20+ nm. 1
Ivandrov Posted August 28 Posted August 28 20 minutes ago, Avio said: On a separate note, in EXP mode the radar still maps all ahead. Should’t there be a doppler blind sector in front, as shown in Wag’s video 3 years ago? Also in that video he was at just 10 nm from the target. That is almost right overhead, well within potential threats. Anything further than 10+ nm the radar could hardly map out any useful sight. Much prefer the F15E radar, which can map even small target out to 20+ nm. Well, IRL pilots didn't like it much either for the same reason. The radar is not powerful enough to make the same kinds of images the F-15E is capable of.
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