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How does radar work during A-G mode


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Posted

Hey, I'm wondering how the F-16 radar uses its antenna in A-G mode. Antenna elevation doesn't affect the image (but antenna azimuth does), and the radar scans the entire area in front of the aircraft and directly below it simultaneously.

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Posted
7 hours ago, Skrzatek said:

So if I understand correctly, the only true word in F-16's "Air to Ground Radar" is "ground"?

Are you thinking that the phrase "Air-to-Ground" means that it should have an "Air" capability to the radar while also being able to have the "Ground" capability?? Are you thinking it should show you air targets as well??

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Posted (edited)

Air-to-ground radar is correct. It is a radar used in the air, and this mode is used to scan for and map ground returns.

Edited by Ivandrov
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Ivandrov said:

Air-to-ground radar is correct. It is a radar used in the air, and this mode is used to scan for and map ground returns.

I think you misunderstood what the issue is here.

no matter where the nose is pointed it will always scan the ground, when in some cases it is not physically possible to turn the antenna to the ground while the nose is pointed 85 degrees up. Like in this image:

Screen_250825_214941.jpgScreen_250825_214938.jpg

Edited by Furiz
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Furiz said:

I think you misunderstood what the issue is here.

no matter where the nose is pointed it will always scan the ground, when in some cases it is not physically possible to turn the antenna to the ground while the nose is pointed 85 degrees up. Like in this image:

Screen_250825_214941.jpgScreen_250825_214938.jpg

This is the issue presented in the linked topic. There's no mention of any kind of nose angle in OP's original post.

Also that was a reply to a flippant comment.

 

As far as any updates to the A2G radar goes. They are likely very low priority as neither most players nor the real life pilots seemed to like to use it.

Edited by Ivandrov
Posted
4 hours ago, Furiz said:

I think you misunderstood what the issue is here.

no matter where the nose is pointed it will always scan the ground, when in some cases it is not physically possible to turn the antenna to the ground while the nose is pointed 85 degrees up. Like in this image:

Screen_250825_214941.jpgScreen_250825_214938.jpg

Yeah, that's weird. Lmao maybe we will get better simulation in the future. 

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Posted
14 hours ago, Ivandrov said:

There's no mention of any kind of nose angle in OP's original post.

From my post: "Antenna elevation doesn't affect the image (but antenna azimuth does), and the radar scans the entire area in front of the aircraft and directly below it simultaneously."

Current F-16's "A-G radar" scans the whole ground, no matter what is the antenna elevation (it can even point up into sky). Scanning terrain while in high pitch angles is related to this behaviour.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/25/2025 at 9:31 PM, Furiz said:

I think you misunderstood what the issue is here.

no matter where the nose is pointed it will always scan the ground, when in some cases it is not physically possible to turn the antenna to the ground while the nose is pointed 85 degrees up. Like in this image:

Screen_250825_214941.jpgScreen_250825_214938.jpg

What do you mean it always scans the ground? This can't be, radar doesn't know what the ground is. It is scanning what the radar sees in it's the gimbal limits (120deg vertical and horizontal), and no matter where the aircraft is pointing. And based on what is sees, it maps on the MFD. If sky, it's all black, same as the sea, all else has some different gray color variations. 

The question is where is the radar pointed when in Ground mode?! In A2A you can manually set where does it look, by changing elevation, but in the A2G? Is it pointed straight ahead, is it level with the aircraft, or is it pointing downwards, towards the ground, if so whats the angle (based on level flight, or based on aircraft direction) - before applying any filters?

Maybe @RogueSpecterGaming can exapin in more professional way. 

Edited by skywalker22
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

What do you mean it always scans the ground? This can't be, radar doesn't know what the ground is. It is scanning what the radar sees in it's the gimbal limits (120deg vertical and horizontal), and no matter where the aircraft is pointing. And based on what is sees, it maps on the MFD. If sky, it's all black, same as the sea, all else has some different gray color variations. 

The question is where is the radar pointed when in Ground mode?! In A2A you can manually set where does it look, by changing elevation, but in the A2G? Is it pointed straight ahead, is it level with the aircraft, or is it pointing downwards, towards the ground, if so whats the angle (based on level flight, or based on aircraft direction) - before applying any filters?

Maybe @RogueSpecterGaming can exapin in more professional way. 

He was just explaining in more detail what the issue is. He isn't saying it should be able to present an image while pointing towards the sky. He is saying it shouldn't and provides examples of it doing what it should not be able to. 

 

This issue has to deal with how ED modelled the A-G radar function of the jet. And I am sure they are tracking.

 

Edit: not sure why it posted the same thing twice.

Edited by RogueSpecterGaming

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Posted

@skywalker22 Well, this radar for sure knows what the ground is. Easiest solution would be at least adding some if-elses, that would act as antenna elevation. Harder solution is to code real raycasting into both a2a and a2g modes, with using 3d main lobe and side lobes model. This would provide realistic terrain image in a-g mode and realistic ground clutter and false contacts in a-g mode.

Posted

On a separate note, in EXP mode the radar still maps all ahead. Should’t there be a doppler blind sector in front, as shown in Wag’s video 3 years ago?

Also in that video he was at just 10 nm from the target. That is almost right overhead, well within potential threats. Anything further than 10+ nm the radar could hardly map out any useful sight.

Much prefer the F15E radar, which can map even small target out to 20+ nm.

 

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Posted
20 minutes ago, Avio said:

On a separate note, in EXP mode the radar still maps all ahead. Should’t there be a doppler blind sector in front, as shown in Wag’s video 3 years ago?

Also in that video he was at just 10 nm from the target. That is almost right overhead, well within potential threats. Anything further than 10+ nm the radar could hardly map out any useful sight.

Much prefer the F15E radar, which can map even small target out to 20+ nm.

 

Well, IRL pilots didn't like it much either for the same reason. The radar is not powerful enough to make the same kinds of images the F-15E is capable of.

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