My A-10C preparation

[rocketeer]

I justed shared my tests in the thread

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1033868#post1033868

 

As you know Beta 3 is out and many switch functions (hundreds) have been added to the keyboard.lua. I tested assigning them to my leo board. I tested the AAP engage/disengage button in the LASTE panel, the load button in the VHF AM panel and the Oxygen Indicator Test button. All worked like charm. Just follow the steps I outlined in the thread above and if you have a big input hardware like BU0836X (which I don't have!) or Xkeys or OC cards, you'd be able to get them hundreds of switches functioning immediately, at least the simple ones like toggles and push buttons.

[BaD CrC]

If ED is going the same way than with BS, Leo's boards are a quick and easy solution. I am flying my KA50 now without touching the mouse. All the buttons are mapped in the cockpit (about 300).

Some frustration though with the rotary switches as not all of them got a "turn left" and "turn right" separate key assignement.

 

Off topic, but while I am talking about frustration, I can still see no way to export the PVI display, and ED is totally silent on the Pit building dev kit for 2 years.

 

I would be very worried to start an A10C cockpit now considering the lack of support and the quantity of displays the warthog is requiring.

[Feed]

I'm not worried ... any simulator is going to have to make some shortcuts/conscessions. Between lua, SIOC and ongoing development, I'd bet they're going to do this right (to the greatest extent possible). I already seeit, just in the approach to map functions to hardware positions instead of a list of commands. (it doesn't matter that your joystick doesn't have multiple modes itself - because the modes are handled by the sim!) I already have the MFDs being displayed on a second monitor, and that's the overwhelming majority of what's needed already. If I can get a few LCD character displays working, so much the better. :)

 

Great news on Patch 3, saw that myself last night. That should make 'pit building that much easier for a lot of folks.

[rocketeer]

Things look a bit better with some dash of colors added, else it's all black and gray.

[sweinhart3]

Thanks Gadroc. This is very impressive and exciting! Just drag and drop an action to a switch. Wow! I have read and understood the steps to make an easy toggle switch work with SOIC and LUA as per Oakes' example. And was prepared to learn the more advanced steps for rotary switches, pots and encoders, and then even more advanced steps for output LEDs, LCD and seven segments. But your Helios example makes it like a normal joystick configuration, really simple. If so, it'd save me a ton of time figuring out the coding for hundreds of switches!

 

Actually the led output of it is simpler than the input stuff. I havent made a workable switch yet and you have to program for every switch position. Indicator lamps are far easier. Pretty much 1 line of code for each. 8 segment displays are also fairly easy because DCS simply outputs the value that needs to be displayed and OC will automatically convert that to the corresponding led segments that need to be lit. Special characters may be a different story however and may require some additional firmware coding.

Edited November 27, 2010 by sweinhart3

[pitbldr]

Looking good Rocketeer!! :thumbup:

[rocketeer]

Has anyone tried converting rotary switch to encoders? I suppose they'd work with OC cards. I have spare rotary switches lying around, so rather than buying encoders I thought of doing the conversion. Just have to figure out which legs to join together for a 2 bit encoder.

[Duckling]

Has anyone tried converting rotary switch to encoders?

 

check http://www.opencockpits.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=FAQ&file=index&myfaq=yes&id_cat=4&categories=IOCards

and the note about to connect a simulated encoder.

I have the wiring diagram somewhere but failed to find it. (I haven't tried this myself though)

[Feed]

Ah, duckling - I knew I'd seen that info somewhere, but couldn't find it on OC's site. Downside here is that you lose an additional input for each encoder. Upside is that perhaps there's a better tactile feel - the encoders I have don't present a very satisfying "click" at each detent, so hitting the correct entry on the nose is a bit touchy (I might try to overcome this by increasing the rotation needed per increment). For some uses this might not be a big deal, but working on the UHF panel, I may consider going this route.

[rocketeer]

Thanks Gus for the link. It says

- shortcircuit pins

1-4-7-10;

2-5-8-11;

3-6-9-12;

The example was for a 30 degree 12 position rotary switch. I suppose it's also possible for a 45 degree 8 position rotary by joining sets of 3 pins instead of 4? If so, which ones?

 

I said earlier post #342 that the GC Electronics equivalent of the C&K rotary switches are

35-1343

35-1324

 

Correction it should be 35-1314 instead of 1324. 1314 is single pole, 12 position, others may be 2 or 4 pole and limited to 3 or 4 positions, which will not be useful when trying to use for a 5 position, 30 degree switch. So 1314 will be the most ideal. still, the GC ones cost about twice that of the C&K ones I found yesterday. so it'd be cheaper to find the A11215RNZQ and A12515RNZQ ones.

[Duckling]

If so, which ones?

 

Sorry. no idea, connecting sets of three pins on a 8 pos toggle sounds like there's one pin less existing then needed.

Hopfully someone here that can give a hint

 

Why go for a 45 degree switch instead of an 12 pos 30 degree ? Just curoius, the 8 pos is normaly more expensive then the 12 pos. Will mean also more 'twisting' to get the value of choice

Cheers

Edited November 30, 2010 by Duckling

[rocketeer]

Because I have spare 45 degrees ones and no 12 pos 30 degrees ones. If I can't get the 45 degress ones to simulate as encoders then I'd buy actual encoders to save the trouble, instead of buying 30 degrees ones and then simulate them as encoders. I believe I can get the CTS 288 encoders for about the same price as the 30 degrees rotary switches.

[Triggerhappy69]

there is one major drawback with using converted rotary switches as rotary encoders....

 

.... they simply don't feel right. The mechanical resistance and clear click-in-groove feel is a bit on the rough side if you ask me. And the hassle of soldering and complete lack of a decent push-button function throws me off the idea of using them.

And like you said, the CTS288 grey encoders are the same price, so...

 

I have tested them both with Opencockpits IOCards and Leo Bodnars BU-series, and they work just fine as long as you don't turn them to fast. But the feel man, the feel... it's just Brrrrrrrrr

[Feed]

Triggerhappy, did you try anything to alter the feel, because that seems exactly counter to what I was saying I didn't like about the rotary encoders I have, that have too 'light' a click in each detent.

 

When I was experiementing with this, I was using 'open' type rotary switches, and used a small screwdriver to bend the metal spring-plate that held the ball bearing against the top plate with the detents, and got a good, solid-feeling 'click' without being the full-on CLUNK of the standard rotary switch.

 

As far as 8-position switches, it's either 2 pins too many or 1 pin short - to use them like this, you have to have a number of positions divisible by 3, so that each one of three are connected to the OC inputs.

 

For typical 2-bit gray code, the direction of rotation is determined by phase relationship (bit/input 1 is turned on before bit/input 2 is turned on, and bit 1 is turned off before bit 2 is turned off, or the other way around.

 

For these modified rotaries, it's different. Direction of rotation is determined by which bit/input is turned on after another is turned off ... when bit 2 is turned of, was bit 3 turned on (clockwise movement) or was bit 1 turned on (counter-clockwise)?

 

That's why fast rotation can lead to problems ... since the circuits are also debounced, if you're turning the switch faster than it registers position changes, it can seem like you're turning the switch in reverse (or erratically back and forth).

 

You could use your 8 position switches ... just wire 1,4,7 to the first input, 2, 5, 8 to the second, and 3, 6 to the third ... but what you'd get is a response where every 9th 'click' would register a turn in the wrong direction, where instead of the next bit being bit/input 3 it would be either 1 or 2 instead. Not to beat the point, but if you were using it for channel selection, you'd see something like ...

 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 3 4 5 6 7 ...

 

... as you rotated it clockwise.

[rocketeer]

So you are saying it can't be done for 8 pos switch because it's not divisible by 3. If so instead of getting 12 pos switches I'd get encoders directly.

[Duckling]

Might be a bit off topic but..

The real ILS I got (haven't verified the frequency span versus DCS yet) left frq knob flips between the three leftmost digits from 108-109-110-111 (4 positions, all in a aprox 100 degrees angle (not possible to rotate this 360+ that is). Right freq knob has a 360+ movment and swaps the 2 -RIGHT- most digits between 10-15-30-35-50-55-70-75-90-95-

Note that this ILS comes from a Viper as far I know. Added some pics of the interior of it at... http://www.strandedduckling.com/html/quad_ref.html#QUADRefILS

 

Regardless though. I'll go with gray encoders in my Quad :-)

 

Edit: A typo above (and..Junior descided to upgrade his WoW installation yesterday. Allmost blocked access to Internet, access to the link will be aviable now :-)

Edited December 2, 2010 by Duckling

[Feed]

Correct - *technically* possible with 8 position switches, but not being divisible by 3 creates the reverse 'glitch' every 9th position since you effectively skip an input/bit and encounters the 'wrong' input where you'd expect it to hit input/bit #3.

[rocketeer]

I'm still not sure if it should be a push/pull or push on/push off switch with pot. if the latter than will this do?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3012598

or even place a normal pot infront of a latched push button.

 

please confirm what type of switch it should be.

 

I still need a conclusion on the appropriate type of switch to use for the various Inter panel knobs. if pots are ok and if the pull type is too hard to find how about something above.

 

another one from radio shack is 10k ohm.

10K-Ohm Audio Control Potentiometer with SPST Switch

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062298

 

what do you guys think?

 

I heard you guys said only the pull part is implemented in the sim, not the rotation of the knob. but in the beta I could pull/push and also rotate. Am I misreading something?

[Krebs20]

I got one not to long ago and it was "Spiking" day one like mad. If the guys at radio shake would let you test it before you buy it. But I wouldn't buy again. If your only using it as a button then it would work fine. But as a pentometer it was crap.

[m0jo]

Another one from radio shack is 10k ohm.

10K-Ohm Audio Control Potentiometer with SPST Switch

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062298

 

what do you guys think?

This look like a logarithmic pot and these wont work well with any interface card because they are not linear. Get a linear pot (taper B) instead if you are not using these with a real audio signal.

[rocketeer]

This is how I mount my rotary switches and pots. I put both types on a backplate, adjust the height to that of the pot meeting the knobs, then cut the shaft of the rotary switches since they are longer and easy to cut being plastic compared to the metal for pots. if there is a toggle or push button in between, then you need to cut a hole large enough for the legs to stick out.

 

Right console.

 

 

left console.

 

When I first started pit building I found it hard to find the various different length of spacers. Now I figured out the simplest solution is to use screws and adjust the screws on both sides of the backplate to any desired height! No more fumbling for different spacer lengths. Took me a while to figure this out. :doh:

 

It was quite tedious to mount all the pots and rotary switches to the knobs, and also fix them down to the wood at the correct rotation angle. After several days, this is what I got.

 

Now it's fun to sit there and rotate all the knobs even without the wiring to I/O cards. Feels pretty real with the touch of the knobs rotating esp. with the sound and feel of the clicks of the rotaries.

 

Still need to get encoders for UHF, VHF, Tacan, ILS etc. Slowly getting there...

[wriley]

Looking good rocketeer!

[rocketeer]

Thanks Riley.

 

More pics. Made my own custom volume knob for the VHF panels. You know the one on the top left corner of the panel, with the straight cuts? I just cut it from acrylic using dremel tool. But given it's small in diameter and I insisted on still using 1/4" pot shaft, it cracks easily if you are not careful as the bottom will be thin. Ask me how I know?

 

One for the AM and one for the FM VHF. I've followed DCS' color scheme, one of them is grey, then other black for the two VHF panels.

 

EW panel is done, except for the rocker switch and the LCD display. The five push buttons are functional, not just paper stickers. They have tactile switches underneath, set on a perf board, and are held in position by acrylic 9mm cubes from Tap Plastics. Initially tried to save money by cutting my own cubes but realized I couldn't produce the dimensions consistently with hand tools.

 

 

For this knob it's supposed to be a cube like thingy. If you just drill a circular hole and use a normal toggle switch it'd keep rotating. So I use a flat toggle instead, and drill a thin trench. Now it doesn't rotate anymore.

[hassata]

That's some nice work, man.

[pitbldr]

Nice idea on the "cube like thingy"! I've been wondering how I might do that.... mind if I borrow your idea? :music_whistling: