Piss Poor Fliers!

[isoul]

I think both populations(pro's and rookies) should back off in their demands. Rookies need to have a lot of patience and go over the same stuff again and again(its a helo after all, not a bicycle). Pro's re-train too! Pro's should have the patience to give their lights to rookies as well!

 

On the other hand think that a rookie is a potentially good pilot and both trainers and learner can make out something good from a training course!

[zdXu]

Since the days are gone where NO DRM-bypass was availeable for the new 1.0.1c-patch, we have more and more to deal with "beginners" (on online-servers and also on the forum), crashers etc.

 

So to think all these "beginners" were regular payers is IMO wrong.

 

Eagle dynamics should bring out a new patch with minor DRM-changes.

Edited January 23, 2010 by zdXu

[Renato71]

Its all about attitude, and it will be hard to change that.

I found out that that patient approach can be very productive. Online, on HL only, I ignore all chat, apart from salutes and comms from people I know.

Offline, especially on our forum, I always go one extra step to explain. This produces interesting effect - those that are NOT interested into serious flying and are looking for a flying version of Wolfenstein, quickly give up when they realize the level of complexity. Or, they are simply ashamed of how little they want to learn, and they leave for good.

On the other hand, some people take a deep breath and really try to learn something in light of the support they receive. If someone says "I give up", I wanna know why? I do not let them go until they admit that they are not looking for a game like this.

 

Thats the way people are. Just look at the traffic. Dunno about your cities, but here its horrible how... erm.. simple-minded drivers can be. I will never stop to wander how it is possible they they were able to get their driving license, and why in a Gods name the car manufacturer allowed such dumbs to drive their cars? And, if you cannot regulate that, how do you expect to regulate online flying? At this moment, there is no setting like "block noobs" or "min number of flying hours needed to connect".

 

And even if there were, once upon a time we were all noobs with no flying hours. You need patience.

 

Like, here is another example - I was TK'ed with R-73 while flying Su-25T in a mission where I was the only one flying Su-25T. Yes, the evil table with list of fliers was not telling the truth! It showed up only 6 out of 6 fliers! Conspiracy!

[Bucic]

Everyone used to be a noob but not everyone:

- avoided the manual at all cost

- decided to practice first time formation flying with an unaware MP human player

and so on.

 

I think Bee Sting means guys of this type

Don't give up. Anytime you will feel that you loose your strenght cheer up by watching this video of two helpless guys struggling to lift off during an MP session

(look at 8:30 for example). Guys who didn't even think of reading anything, I must add. Rumor has it that it took them 2 hours to lift off... and start crashing. Ooooohyeaaah...:bored:

 

Note the attitude. There are also hopeless individuals who ask in the comments of youtube video titled "DCS Black Shark Startup" - "What game is this?". Some of them even ask where they can get it after they got answer to their first question :doh: The only useful thing they can bring to the community is the cash they pay for DCS Black Shark.

[isoul]

I missed that video Bucic!

 

Whats the chances of lifting off by randomly pressing a few hundred buttons??? If anyone succeeds in that I advice him to abandon his Shark and go and place a bet or run to the nearest casino..!

[Renato71]

Everyone used to be a noob but not everyone:

- avoided the manual at all cost

- decided to practice first time formation flying with an unaware MP human player

and so on.

 

I think Bee Sting means guys of this type

 

Note the attitude. There are also hopeless individuals who ask in the comments of youtube video titled "DCS Black Shark Startup" - "What game is this?". Some of them even ask where they can get it after they got answer to their first question :doh: The only useful thing they can bring to the community is the cash they pay for DCS Black Shark.

 

Yup, people are getting lazier by the day.

Why bother doing some reasearch?

 

I agree with you...

[talisman]

Very simple answer - give everyone a small suicide pill clearly marked "DO NOT TAKE THIS PILL"

 

Within hours the world will be a better place.

[johnnychemo]

Yo!

 

oh....it't not a "Check In" thread....

 

nevermind...

[astrospud]

Johnnychemo, Welcome to DCS:Blackshark :).

 

I take it from your post that you count yourself among the green flyers mentioned here? I apologise if I'm incorrect.

If you had no idea of the learning curve of this sim was so steep, you are not alone.

But the thing is, you've taken the time to sign up and post here, which tells me that you are keen to understand this game from people who know how it works. That's a good thing.

If you take anything away from this thread it should be don't give up :).

[PedroTheGoat]

I'm bringing this thread back to life because it really scared me.

 

I AM a console gamer who finally has the scraps to buy a gaming PC in order to play my favorite genre: Realistic flight sims. It's been so long since I have been able to play a good flight sim due to the fact that console is about all I could afford.

 

The last REAL flight sims I played were SU-27 Flanker (The FIRST one), US Navy Fighters, and Janes Longbow.

 

I am NOT a lazy console gamer though... I have read all 500 + pages of the .pdf manual... Cover to cover... I also have watched all 10 producers notes NUMEROUS times... I really do feel like I could start that bird manually the first time I play the game.

 

What scares me is... What about my first few online experiences? If I'm not "up to snuff" because I am brand new am I going to get kicked over and over again?

 

Are there any active servers or squads out there that would take a newbie in?

 

Call me a weiner... But it would make me a sad Goat if I was trying my hardest and just got kicked because I am not doing mad funnel maneuvers and might be struggling a bit with the Datalink or something.

 

(By the way... My computer is in the mail... That's why I haven't started up my own beautiful Blackshark up yet)

[159th_Falcon]

I'm bringing this thread back to life because it really scared me.

 

I AM a console gamer who finally has the scraps to buy a gaming PC in order to play my favorite genre: Realistic flight sims. It's been so long since I have been able to play a good flight sim due to the fact that console is about all I could afford.

 

The last REAL flight sims I played were SU-27 Flanker (The FIRST one), US Navy Fighters, and Janes Longbow.

 

I am NOT a lazy console gamer though... I have read all 500 + pages of the .pdf manual... Cover to cover... I also have watched all 10 producers notes NUMEROUS times... I really do feel like I could start that bird manually the first time I play the game.

 

What scares me is... What about my first few online experiences? If I'm not "up to snuff" because I am brand new am I going to get kicked over and over again?

 

Are there any active servers or squads out there that would take a newbie in?

 

Call me a weiner... But it would make me a sad Goat if I was trying my hardest and just got kicked because I am not doing mad funnel maneuvers and might be struggling a bit with the Datalink or something.

 

(By the way... My computer is in the mail... That's why I haven't started up my own beautiful Blackshark up yet)

 

If you get kicked from a server because your asking in a normal way how something works, DONT EVER GO THERE AGAIN.

 

Then not you but the server admin is being an ****head.

Also there are quite some server out there whit people in it happy to help you. I myself learned flying the ka50 from scratch on a private server i happen to come across.

I sucked at the mission the guy was hosting but we had a few good chats and i learned lots there.

 

Last but not least, i could advice you to come and take a look at the 159th Guards Aviation Regiment

We fly the SU33, SU25T and ofcourse the KA-50

 

***EDIT***

In my opinion anyone should be able to join a server and get some help.

Even if he didn't read a darn letter in the manual yet.

(maybe he doesn't know where to find it for example?)

[PedroTheGoat]

If you get kicked from a server because your asking in a normal way how something works, DONT EVER GO THERE AGAIN.

 

Then not you but the server admin is being an ****head.

Also there are quite some server out there whit people in it happy to help you. I myself learned flying the ka50 from scratch on a private server i happen to come across.

I sucked at the mission the guy was hosting but we had a few good chats and i learned lots there.

 

Last but not least, i could advice you to come and take a look at the 159th Guards Aviation Regiment

We fly the SU33, SU25T and ofcourse the KA-50

 

***EDIT***

In my opinion anyone should be able to join a server and get some help.

Even if he didn't read a darn letter in the manual yet.

(maybe he doesn't know where to find it for example?)

 

I'll probably only be flying the KA-50 for a few months. It seems like Black Shark is going to have enough depth that I doubt I will stray to Lock On for a good long while.

 

I'll check you guys out ASAP. I need to get a bearing on how to fly a bit of single player before I start trying to hot dog with some of you aces.

 

I just don't feel like being treated like crap for the first 20 games or so I play like some console games. Console gamers tend to be A#$ holes though... For no apparent reason sometimes.

 

If I happen to wander in a server like that I suppose I will just blacklist it and move on like you suggest. :thumbup:

[joey45]

Most, if not all Squadron servers are good places, If they have Sqadron members on then they should help you with anything.

 

Having read the manual and watched the notes it should only be simple question about the manual........... better still join a squadron here >>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=34062 <<<<

[paul5331]

Hi All

 

I am new to Helo sims and the depth of this one is daunting but i keep plugging away when I have time. I have not attempted online due to the noob factor ie not conversant with all the KA50 systems and online protocols. My point is I have always shied away from online flying for fear of arseing up someone elses Mission/campaign and then getting booted out. I am getting on 54 so the grey matter has to have time to take things in.

 

Cheers all

[element1108]

I like when green pilots are on servers I'm flying in...I enjoy teaching, but I definitely do not know everything KA-50 related. Even when I was green I flew and still fly most often online. It helps if you announce you're green and people will most likely leave you alone. I had a LOT of questions answered in muliplayer from a few helpful individuals which really helped. If there is a Team Speak running for the server, I advise you to join it even if you're a "noob" because if you do have questions its easier to ask directly without having to type.

 

Obviously if you respect the rules of the server and you get banned anyway is in no way a reflection of the community as a whole, but more the individual running their server.

 

I advise newbie pilots to number ONE learn to fly the helo. Learn to land, transition from hover to flight and back again, turns etc. If you can fly the beast on mental autopilot it will free up much needed attention for target hunting and killing :)

 

GOod luck guys

[joey45]

^^^

1. annouce you are a noob/green/learner

2. learn the basics first, as element said

3. if you get booted from a server there might be a good reason why..

a) Sqd night

b) the admin had a bad day at work

c) the admin is a ...........

4. REF 3 - not all servers are the same, try another one.

5. post on their forums and get to know people

[Major SNAFU]

I like when green pilots are on servers I'm flying in...I enjoy teaching, but I definitely do not know everything KA-50 related. Even when I was green I flew and still fly most often online. It helps if you announce you're green and people will most likely leave you alone. I had a LOT of questions answered in muliplayer from a few helpful individuals which really helped. If there is a Team Speak running for the server, I advise you to join it even if you're a "noob" because if you do have questions its easier to ask directly without having to type.

 

Obviously if you respect the rules of the server and you get banned anyway is in no way a reflection of the community as a whole, but more the individual running their server.

 

I advise newbie pilots to number ONE learn to fly the helo. Learn to land, transition from hover to flight and back again, turns etc. If you can fly the beast on mental autopilot it will free up much needed attention for target hunting and killing :)

 

GOod luck guys

 

As someone considering purchasing this sim, the first question I have is this: Has one of the veterans created some training missions to help guide the new pilot on how to master the basics?

[joey45]

there's producer notes, videos, on the basics.

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/index.php?end_pos=133&scr=products&lang=en

[Booger]

I agree, this topic is fail...not so much by the message, but the elitist attitude spewing from the original post.

 

In reality, there's nothing wrong with a wing/squadron with very high standards. To each their own. My only question is why was the noob flyer there in the first place?

 

It's simple really: If you don't like new pilots in your wing/squadron, don't accept them. If you DO accept them, stfu and expect bad things to happen as they improve.

 

If the problem is YOU, leave. The wing/squadron will be better off.

[PedroTheGoat]

Wow...

 

This strikes me as such a great community. I suppose the fact that this sim is such a study beast that it weeds out most bad apples out there. I can't wait to jump on and play with some of you guys. I get the feeling that when I finally jump on some MP scenarios, everyone I play with will probably use a lot of teamwork and tactics in order to accomplish the mission. Which is something I have been dying to have almost as much as I've been dying to jump into a truly realistic simulator.

 

The nature of this game seems like it would weed out the feint of heart and the dimwitted. This Goat is REALLY anxious for FedEx to arrive with my computer now...

[element1108]

As someone considering purchasing this sim, the first question I have is this: Has one of the veterans created some training missions to help guide the new pilot on how to master the basics?

 

Producer notes were the BEST. For me they got me through the manual startup (shortcut key if you want to skip all that) and a number of other things.

 

I have a laptop and set it up next to my desktop and watched the video's on youtube paused and copied the movements to get the motor skills down. Once you've got that in the bag you can learn more about what exactly you're doing or just keep it a memorize startup. It was the easiest way for me to observe and repeat.

 

It is quite challenging so don't expect to master it over night :)...but that's all part of the fun.

[Bucic]

I agree, this topic is fail...not so much by the message, but the elitist attitude spewing from the original post.

This topic serves the opposite purpose. To tell that reading manual and going through basic training is NOT an elite thing. PedroTheGoat is right. The quality of this sim itself eliminates some of the bunch who jump in MP and don't even know what collective is. No one prohibits them playing BS or even go online. It's just that only a saint will take such individuals under his wings because only a saint will have the patience. Besides, it's annoying to watch that someone move in circles solely due to his laziness.

 

To conclude:

- if you are not minimally self-reliant and willing to learn, you don't bother others

- there's a big difference between using someone's help and exploiting someone's good will to help

Edited April 2, 2010 by Bucic

[Booger]

This strikes me as such a great community. I suppose the fact that this sim is such a study beast that it weeds out most bad apples out there.

 

The sim actually does that itself. It really doesn't matter if you're a 24/7 virtual pilot strung out on Mountain Dew or a more casual one...you'll eventually have to learn the mechanics of the aircraft.

 

I'm not even sure why this topic was made here to be honest. The official forum is hardly the place for a temper tantrum about new pilots (a place full of them as well as potential ones). That's better left at your own wing/squadron forum.

 

Anyway, just find yourself a virtual wing/squadron that fits you dude. There are more than enough of them out there (most of which that I personally know of don't mind helping new pilots along).

[Lightning]

Well i think that most of the time missunderstandings are the reason for being kicked from a server because there is not enough communication between people on a server.

 

As long as Ingame Voice over IP is not implemented, its not always possible to communicate with others in a fast and detailed way.

 

The Text message Chat function is good for basics , but thats all it can do. You can´t always take your hands from HOTAS just to explain "beginners" what button to press to do this or that, or even explain them how to handle the aircraft and what the mission is all about.

 

It would make things easier if anyone who joins up a gameserver also jumps in into the teamspeak server ( most of the squadrons do have a TS Server with the same IP adress ! )

Radio communication is one of the most important things on a server.

 

And when the server admin gets the impression, that somebody is not obeying to the server rules by teamkilling or crashing into others intentionaly

a kick from the server is the only working punishment.

 

We all are keen on flying together with other human teammates ( because it is more fun than singleplayer , isn´t it ? ) , but this only works if we all act as a team that has the same purpose.

That should be to complete the missions, but also to help those among us , who need our help to handle the aircraft.

[PedroTheGoat]

The sim actually does that itself. It really doesn't matter if you're a 24/7 virtual pilot strung out on Mountain Dew or a more casual one...you'll eventually have to learn the mechanics of the aircraft.

 

I'm not even sure why this topic was made here to be honest. The official forum is hardly the place for a temper tantrum about new pilots (a place full of them as well as potential ones). That's better left at your own wing/squadron forum.

 

Anyway, just find yourself a virtual wing/squadron that fits you dude. There are more than enough of them out there (most of which that I personally know of don't mind helping new pilots along).

 

Sweet man. Once I get my flying a bit up to snuff I will start researching squadrons thoroughly.

 

To be honest, the reason why I brought this thread back from the dead is because it was a reactionary thread that would allow me to gauge what the current mindset of the community is. Game communities change moment by moment. It seems to me that Blackshark has been out long enough that some of it's players may be ULTRA veterans that are complacent just the way they are, which leaves little room for rookies.

 

As I suspected, the Blackshark community as a whole seems inviting and extremely intelligent. I've been pouring over these forums for almost 2 weeks now going back to posts that are nearly a year old. Almost NO threads strike me as aggressive or plain dumb. It's probably the best forum community I have seen in my lifetime. (The main exception I've seen is the brashness of the OP of this particular thread)

 

I'm truly not that worried now that I will be kicked from a room because I am not capable of shooting enemy helicopters out of the air at 3km with only using boresight.

Edited April 2, 2010 by PedroTheGoat