A-A or A-G? The ED DCS dilemma

[coolts]

Hypothesis

ED pursuit of high fidelity avionics & flight model technology driven from cross over development from their military funded projects. Their fidelity goals demand declassified data on modelled systems to achieve maximum possible realism.

 

 

***EDITED TO REMOVE MY MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT AIRFRAME NUMBER RELATING TO TOTAL SYSTEMS MODELLING FOR CLASSIFIED HARDWARE****

Result for immediate project (A-10)

Military declassification is only possible / likely on older models of a given aircrafts airframe, (and integrated systems). A-10C will not be modelled,(in its entirety), for this very reason. (So, possibly no FLIR, etc. in new DCS module.) There is no point complaining about this as ED wont model what they don’t have. That is their design goal. We must respect that.

 

Results in future development

Current military aviation development has fundamentally shifted since the end of the Cold War and even more so since the end of the Gulf War. The perceived role of military aviation now is primarily CAS & precision strikes as there are few organised “hostile” air forces out there. Afghanistan is a prime example of this type of deployment, (as it was for USSR). A-10 and Apaches are doing the work with a few A-A craft for escort / recon.

Witness the troubles of the much vaunted Raptor & Lightning, (F-22 7 F-35), 5th gen fighter projects. They are being hammered by US spending cuts. The govt are wary of spending so much money to “fight who?”

 

My “two pennies worth”

As much as I love A-G and flew the A-10 to death in LOMAC and trained myself to fly the KA-50 in DCS, I miss the fast movers. There is nothing quite like a tech-battle BVR encounter turning into a high speed furball over a hostile battlefield to get the blood pounding, (and yes, you can’t help but hum “highway to the danger zone” to yourself!).

Whilst I can’t see A-A in the DCS immediate pipeline because of the above, we are at least getting revamped LOMAC in FC2 and for that I thank ED.

 

Ps. please feel free to correct me in any of this. Just my Monday morning, post coffee & flapjack pontificating.

Pps. Yes, posted on “lockonfiles as well”, (sorry Crunch), as I want to hear as many opinions as I can, (to see if I am talking out of my backside).

Edited February 16, 2010 by coolts

[czarnyolek]

You are right just up to the moment when You go " There is nothing quite like a tech-battle BVR encounter turning into a high speed furball over a hostile battlefield to get the blood pounding".

As You stated earlier "The perceived role of military aviation now is primarily CAS & precision strikes".

So what we need its GBU dropping fast jet, more than anything else.

For now i gotta "please myself" with MODs such as F-15E, F-16 and Gripen for LO:FC.

Hope FC2.0 will give more possibilities for "community developement."

[159th_Viper]

 

Result for immediate project (A-10)

Military declassification is only possible / likely on older models of a given aircrafts airframe. A-10C will not be modelled, only A-10A, for this very reason. (So, possibly no FLIR, etc. in new DCS module.) There is no point complaining about this as ED wont model what they don’t have. That is their design goal. We must respect that.

 

 

 

DCS: A-10C ;)

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=48698

[coolts]

A-10C. 1st correction. Cheers Viper. How the hell have they managed that?

 

from WIKI

 

The A-10C first deployed to Iraq in the third quarter of 2007 with the 104th Fighter Squadron of the Maryland Air National Guard. The jets include the Precision Engagement Upgrade.[36] The A-10C's digital avionics and communications systems have greatly reduced the time to acquire a close air support target and attack it.[37]

 

I am now a far happier bunny!

Edited February 15, 2010 by coolts

[159th_Viper]

...How the hell have they managed that?...

 

"The Fighter Collection, Ltd. (TFC) has announced an agreement with Total Immersion Software, Inc. (TIS) to provide a second development phase of the successful A-10C Desk Top Simulation (DTS) to the Air National Guard (ANG) and U.S. Air Force Air Combat Command (ACC) that will be used for pilot training as part of the A-10C Precision Engagement program."

 

http://www.thebattlesim.com/index.php?lang=en&end_pos=148&scr=home

[Renato71]

A-10C. 1st correction. Cheers Viper. How the hell have they managed that?

 

I would understand this question if it was posted 2-3 years ago... :D

[coolts]

Long standing misinterpretation on my part about the "C" version. Like I said, monday morning pontification.

 

That and an attempt on my part to understand the dev process as specific to ED with regards their planned upcoming releases.

 

....and reconcile myself that I probably wont be playing a true next gen A-A fighter in the DCS series for a while.

Edited February 15, 2010 by coolts

[nemises]

I wouldn't get too heat up about it.

 

Think of the modelling work that will need to be done for the first AA module:

- Advanced ballistics for guided missiles

- Guided Missile Logic

- Advanced radar logic and software

 

I believe ED will be working towards these iteratively in the engine... it makes sence to release a non Airborne radar / radar guided missile module next, as this capitalises on the existing strongpoints of the engine ala KA50.

 

Now, as to what the following module after the A10c is? ... exciting to think about what may be in the pipe ... we know they are looking at AH64a, Mi24, SU27, Mig29, F15c and F16c as potencial modules .... so, you can assume work on advanced radar logic (etc) is also in the pipe.

[Renato71]

Long standing misinterpretation on my part about the "C" version. Like I said, monday morning pontification.

 

You need more coffee :D

 

BTW, where is that list with modules to be? Can't dig it at this moment - now my coffee is wearing out :huh:

[GGTharos]

Hypothesis

ED pursuit of high fidelity avionics & flight model technology driven from cross over development from their military funded projects. Their fidelity goals demand declassified data on modelled systems to achieve maximum possible realism.

 

This doesn't mean there aren't classified systems of operating modes of systems onboard the A-10C that you will definitely not see (but you won't miss them, not ever having known about them ;) )

 

Result for immediate project (A-10)

Military declassification is only possible / likely on older models of a given aircrafts airframe. A-10C will not be modelled, only A-10A, for this very reason. (So, possibly no FLIR, etc. in new DCS module.) There is no point complaining about this as ED wont model what they don’t have. That is their design goal. We must respect that.

 

As mentioned before, the A-10C will be the aircraft modeled in the next DCS module. There are some things onboard that you won't see in the sim, but you wouldn't know of them anyway without reading classified manual supplements. In this case we're talking things you probably couldn't even begin to guess at.

 

Results in future development

Current military aviation development has fundamentally shifted since the end of the Cold War and even more so since the end of the Gulf War. The perceived role of military aviation now is primarily CAS & precision strikes as there are few organised “hostile” air forces out there. Afghanistan is a prime example of this type of deployment, (as it was for USSR). A-10 and Apaches are doing the work with a few A-A craft for escort / recon.

Witness the troubles of the much vaunted Raptor & Lightning, (F-22 7 F-35), 5th gen fighter projects. They are being hammered by US spending cuts. The govt are wary of spending so much money to “fight who?”

 

When they need to save money, things that aren't needed 'right now' kinda have to go. Not much choice there.

 

My “two pennies worth”

As much as I love A-G and flew the A-10 to death in LOMAC and trained myself to fly the KA-50 in DCS, I miss the fast movers. There is nothing quite like a tech-battle BVR encounter turning into a high speed furball over a hostile battlefield to get the blood pounding, (and yes, you can’t help but hum “highway to the danger zone” to yourself!).

Whilst I can’t see A-A in the DCS immediate pipeline because of the above, we are at least getting revamped LOMAC in FC2 and for that I thank ED.

 

Ps. please feel free to correct me in any of this. Just my Monday morning, post coffee & flapjack pontificating.

Pps. Yes, posted on “lockonfiles as well”, (sorry Crunch), as I want to hear as many opinions as I can, (to see if I am talking out of my backside).

 

There will be a DCS fighter (or a bunch thereof) eventually. Yeah, it might be a while, but it'll happen.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

1- A-10A Suite 2 (latest version of A-10A in active use)

2- A-10C Suite 3 (we now able to develop an entertainment version of the simulation we developed for them. We are very happy and excited about this).

3- AH-64A Blk. 49A

4- Su-27

5- F-15C

6- Mi-24V

7- F-16C

8- MiG-29A

 

Naturally, release of aircraft like the Su-27 and F-15C would coincide with integration of advanced flight model for missiles, advanced seeker logic and advanced air-to-air radar logic and modeling.

 

(...)

 

The actual order of release is still up in the air. For all of these aircraft, we now have all the needed data to model them properly to DCS standards (very important a big factor of what does and does not go into DCS as a flyable). It is important to remember that all of these aircraft will be modeled to the same level of detail as the Black Shark in DCS.

 

I think we're pretty done with ground-attack for now. Badass attack helicopter & a fugly attack aircraft - need more? Not that I don't want more ground-attack stuff, but that's quite enough for one to have fun, and in this case, having another ground-attack plane will delay the fighter and spoil the Top Gun generation's fun.

 

Remember: Fighter Pilots make movies, Bomber Pilots make history; Fighter Pilots also make sure bomber pilots don't make history :D

 

With a fighter, we would get as a bonus a complete face-lift on missiles and radars, and that's something needed - it's quite annoying to have tons of threads complaining about that Jedi missile that killed me or the retarded missile that couldn't hit a thing.

 

And there's the human side of it: let the poor troops have some rest, please :P

[Vekkinho]

With the PAK-FA on the horizon F-22 and F-35 make sense, don't they?!

 

I guess Sukhoi saved some Boeing employees from being sacked!

[coolts]

Do fighter pilots have more sex?*

 

Hang on. The thought of Tom Cruise "on the job" has just made my cup of tea go cold.

 

 

*(With bomber pilots wives)

[Lucas_From_Hell]

:megalol:

 

Nice one, coolts!

 

"While Bomber Pilots Are Making History; Fighter Pilots Are Making Babies" :D

[Boberro]

Hahahahhaahahhahh great!!!!

[AustinN360]

A-10C. 1st correction. Cheers Viper. How the hell have they managed that?

 

from WIKI

 

The A-10C first deployed to Iraq in the third quarter of 2007 with the 104th Fighter Squadron of the Maryland Air National Guard. The jets include the Precision Engagement Upgrade.[36] The A-10C's digital avionics and communications systems have greatly reduced the time to acquire a close air support target and attack it.[37]

 

I am now a far happier bunny!

 

We got the A10c? Now thats a first! lol.

[coolts]

As GCTharos pointed out, we won’t be getting the FULL FAT A-10C, but the classified stuff they can’t include won’t affect game play and we don’t notice, (well I won’t - hopefully I will be too busy laughing at all the Ka-50 pilots flailing about because they can’t use the trimmer*).

Bring on the HOGS OF WAR!!

* That will be me then.

[muamshai]

 

As mentioned before, the A-10C will be the aircraft modeled in the next DCS module. There are some things onboard that you won't see in the sim, but you wouldn't know of them anyway without reading classified manual supplements. In this case we're talking things you probably couldn't even begin to guess at.

 

In short:

 

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know.

There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we now know we don’t know.

But there are also unknown unknowns. These are things we do not know we don’t know.

 

:D

[coolts]

Life is one giant Donald!:doh:

[sweinhart3]

This doesn't mean there aren't classified systems of operating modes of systems onboard the A-10C that you will definitely not see (but you won't miss them, not ever having known about them ;) )

 

 

Oh you mean like IFF operations and frequencies?

[Pyroflash]

Or the super secret button that transforms the A-10C into an F-22A in case of emergency air engage... Oops, I said too much.