China shocks analysts by Flight Testing 5th gen JXX Stealth fighter

[Alex_rcpilot]

No problem, it was probably a mix-up with DPRK, coz I've seen that on Discovery channel.

[Vekkinho]

Judging by design this thing looks further into the future than PAK-FA...

 

If you ask me (and nobody does) I consider it more advanced thus more risky project than PAK-FA, size seems an only disadvantage but as some already noted it might not be a fighter only but strike / bomber layout as well.

 

Sre looks more 21st century than PAK-FA!

[Slayer]

It looks stealthy but clearly the engine nozzles are not. They look like 2 big bullseyes for heat seeking missiles.

[Teknetinium]

Looks like a mix of Berkut Su-47,Mig-1.44,F-22

What a beast!!! Congratulations Chines aviation enthusiasts.

We might experience this before we die in ED simulator F-22/PakFA,Chines beast. After that Im ready to die :)

Edited December 30, 2010 by Teknetinium

[topol-m]

We don`t know its exact length yet but if we assume it will be about 22 m long, that`s not too much. YF-23 was about 21 m of length so a meter more shouldn`t make such a difference. Don`t see how that would flaw its air-to air capabilities.

What I notice though, the wing hardpoints seem much more protuberant compared to F-22 or PAK-FA ones.

[Pilotasso]

Im less and less convinced it can dogfight at all, its a massive body with very backward delta wing, its going to hurt making it turn fast. I read somewhere it will have thrust vectoring AL-31F engines. It will be the first time well ever see thrust vectoring engines working so close to the main wing. Itll push down almost directly on the lift cancelling it. Horrendous wing loadings are expected, and quite possibly turn rates will suffer as well.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Pilotasso

[mikoyan]

It is kind a hard to tell without seeing a top view of the airplane; If I'm not mistaking delta wings can achieve very high pitch rates and if you add those two canards in the front then the outcome improves; my issue with this bird is that it is too big and long; and the size provably hurts its nimbleness since it would be a lot of mass to move around; One example would be the mirage 4000 seen here...

It is not a slouch but you can tell that it is less nimble that its smaller brother the mirage 2000

I guess the problem would be sustained turn rate and not instantaneous turn rates; delta wings are very good at piching fast; It has big canards on the front.

The question now is if it uses the all moving tail for pitching; which could also help to make it more agile. If I'm not mistaking the ideal fighter size is about the size of the f-15 (there is a study about this stuff)

If you look at the raptor videos you can tell that most of the surfaces interact to help the bird turn; the elevators move at the same time as the tvc engines; the rudders move together up as in the super-hornet; and if I'm not wrong; the outer ailerons move up a bit coupled with the slats moving down (my guess is that they create more camber and create a washout on the outer section of the wing to achieve higher alpha)

 

 

another question I have is if the boxy fuselage helps to create lift. The russians for example went the other way around by creating that lifting duct between the engines like on the f-14, mig-29 and su-27.

Edited December 30, 2010 by mikoyan

[Teknetinium]

It is kind a hard to tell without seeing a top view of the airplane; If I'm not mistaking delta wings can achieve very high pitch rates and if you add those two canards in the front then the outcome improves; my issue with this bird is that it is too big and long; and the size provably hurts its nimbleness since it would be a lot of mass to move around; One example would be the mirage 4000 seen here...

It is not a slouch but you can tell that it is less nimble that its smaller brother the mirage 2000

I guess the problem would be sustained turn rate and not instantaneous turn rates; delta wings are very good at piching fast; It has big canards on the front.

The question now is if it uses the all moving tail for pitching; which could also help to make it more agile. If I'm not mistaking the ideal fighter size is about the size of the f-15 (there is a study about this stuff)

If you look at the raptor videos you can tell that most of the surfaces interact to help the bird turn; the elevators move at the same time as the tvc engines; the rudders move together up as in the super-hornet; and if I'm not wrong; the outer ailerons move up a bit coupled with the slats moving down (my guess is that they create more camber and create a washout on the outer section of the wing to achieve higher alpha)

 

 

another question I have is if the boxy fuselage helps to create lift. The russians for example went the other way around by creating that lifting duct between the engines like on the f-14, mig-29 and su-27.

 

I belive Mirage 4000 is more maneuverable them mirage 2000, Im sure Rafale, EF-2000, JAS-39,PakFA have canards for a reason.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Teknetinium

[topol-m]

Originally posted by Spieler07 in the russian part of the forums:

 

[gigz-on]

It looks just massive.. :)

I dunno about its weight but it seems that it is heavier than F-22/T-50.

 

By the way congrats to China! :)

Edited December 30, 2010 by gigz-on

[Pilotasso]

hmmmm, found these pictures...photoshop or first flight???

Wow look at the skin, looks covered by some special material. Not a single visible rivet or joint.

 

[3GOCHN-443]

hmmmm, found these pictures...photoshop or first flight???

Wow look at the skin, looks covered by some special material. Not a single visible rivet or joint.

 

 

This is obvious a CG product. However I want to point out that this CG is made by 高山, who is a professional military CG artist in China and was believed has some inside information channel.

[mikoyan]

Very nice looking bird; hats down for the Chinese; it looks very cool...also those intakes could generate lift at the front of the jet! I hope they use the moving tail as elevators too.

[Boberro]

Nice, time will say how good that plane is (or not).

[tflash]

Aviation week: China 5th gen fighter in Taxi tests!

 

http://bit.ly/gzEwRQ

[T-Bone]

 

A size comparison chart.

[topol-m]

^^^

From the photos I`ve seen so far I think the chinese fighter is longer than PAK-FA. If PAK-FA is say 20 m, using primitive measurement methods ;) I`d say J-20 is about 22 m long. And the wing is approximately 0.5 m higher.

Edited January 1, 2011 by topol-m

[T-Bone]

Yeah the picture is outdated, and was out before these photos. I'd say it looks cooler than the PAK-FA but not as refined as the F-22.

[Vekkinho]

The pic is messed up a bit...J-20 has fins canted outwards and wings are of different shape. It much larger than presented on the pic and its empennage is slightly different tha that on the pic.

 

Jugding by the photos of the prototype I'll feel free to say it's at least 5 meters longer than PAK-FA and perhaps in range of 25 tonnes which in turn suggests it's less agile than PAK-FA if equipped with same AL-31F engines.

 

However it might not be designed as an air superiority fighter but heavy interceptor or fighter-bomber.

[Pilotasso]

fighter bomber makes more sense given the proliferation of F-15E's and Su-30's in the region.

[T-Bone]

Australia Air Power on J-20 ,

Dr Carlo Kopp

 

Over the last few days imagery of what is claimed to be China's new stealth fighter has appeared on a range of Chinese Internet sites. There have been no official disclosures as yet, so many of the claims appearing in the media may only be speculation presented as fact.

 

The aircraft may be a technology demonstrator or a prototype for a mass production fighter aircraft. The latter is however much more likely, given that the PLA Chief of Air Staff claimed an IOC later in the decade.

 

What the imagery shows is a large fighter, approaching the size of an F-111, with a canard delta configuration and pair of outward canted all moving vertical tails. This configuration will provide good sustained supersonic cruise performance with a suitable engine type, and good manoeuvre performance in transonic and supersonic regimes.

 

Of most interest is the stealth shaping, which is considerably better than that seen in the Russian T-50 PAK-FA prototypes and in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The Chinese design appears to be largely built around the stealth shaping design rules employed in the F-22A Raptor. The chined nose section and canopy are close in appearance to the F-22. The trapezoidal inlets are closest to the F-22, but employ an F-35 style boundary layer control design. The wing fuselage join angle, critical for side aspect stealth, is very similar to the F-22 and superior to the Russian T-50 PAK-FA prototypes and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The flat lower fuselage is optimal for all aspect wideband stealth. Planform alignment is impossible to assess until in flight imagery becomes available.

 

The aft fuselage, tailboom, strakes and nozzles are not compatible with high stealth performance, but may only be stop gap measures to expedite flight testing of a prototype. The airframe configuration and aft fuselage would be compatible with an F-22 style 2D TVC nozzle design, or a non-TVC rectangular nozzle designed for controlled infrared emission and radio-frequency stealth.

 

The PLA have not disclosed the engine type. There are claims that the Russians supplied supercruise capable 117S series engines - these would not be sufficient to extract the full performance potential of this advanced airframe.

 

The airframe configuration is compatible with ventral and side opening internal weapon bays, and large enough to match or exceed the internal weapons payload of the F-22A Raptor. Internal fuel fraction may also be high, given the fuselage configuration and large internal volume of the big delta wing.

 

Other unknowns are the intended sensor suite. China has yet to demonstrate an AESA radar, or an advanced indigenous emitter locating system. However, these could become available by the time this airframe enters production.

 

The size of the airframe, and its evident focus on supersonic persistence, suggests at a minimum an intention to provide a long range interceptor for air control in the Second Island Chain geography. This capability by default would provide the ability to penetrate an opposing IADS to destroy assets like AWACS, other ISR systems, and tankers. Suffice to say, with suitable internal weapons, the design could be employed as a penetrating strike aircraft, in the combat radius class of the F-111 or Su-34 Fullback.

 

The notion that an F-35 Joint Strike Fighter or F/A-18E/F Super Hornet will be capable of competing against this Chengdu design in air combat, let along penetrate airspace defended by this fighter, is simply absurd.

 

APA will produce a detailed analysis at a future date, once more technical material becomes available.

[T-Bone]

BTW I'm not endorsing his viewpoints, as it seems like this guy wants the US to sell Australia the F-22...

[T-Bone]

The pic is messed up a bit...J-20 has fins canted outwards and wings are of different shape. It much larger than presented on the pic and its empennage is slightly different tha that on the pic.

 

Jugding by the photos of the prototype I'll feel free to say it's at least 5 meters longer than PAK-FA and perhaps in range of 25 tonnes which in turn suggests it's less agile than PAK-FA if equipped with same AL-31F engines.

 

However it might not be designed as an air superiority fighter but heavy interceptor or fighter-bomber.

 

Yep, definitely looks like an interdiction fighter of some sort. I would not be surprised if within a few years a smaller more agile air superiority fighter was developed.

[Brutus]

Somebody get on the phone to Clint Eastwood, he's got a plane to steal...:D

[bumfire]

"Carlo Kock"

 

"The notion that an F-35 Joint Strike Fighter or F/A-18E/F Super Hornet will be capable of competing against this Chengdu design in air combat, let along penetrate airspace defended by this fighter, is simply absurd."

 

This dude loves to try his hardest to scare Australia's Gov into getting on their collective knees and to beg the US for the F22.

 

This dude is first and foremost a scaremongerer and is highly pissed off that he lives in a country that isnt allowed to have the F22, which he would so love to get his hands on, so he can then write a piece about it and claim how Russian and chinese Planes are vastly superior compared to the Yankee Infidels F22.