IvanK Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 The basic HUD in both the MIG29, SU27 and SU33 shows IAS/CAS in the Airspeed field top left corner. However when you switch to either a radar or EOS search mode it changes to TAS. Is this correct ? I dont think it is. In reading various translated Russian Flight manuals and Tactical type manuals (and the Russian source docs) I cannot see reference to this change. These documents show many HUD displays in differrent modes all show (to the best of my knowledge IAS/CAS) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilBivol-1 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 (edited) Yes, this is a documented feature for the Su-27. I'm not sure if it is for the MiG-29 also, but the two aircraft share the avionics code in FC2, so it used on the -29 as well. Edited April 22, 2010 by EvilBivol-1 - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakshot Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 ^^ Agreed... Also it can easily be seen on some Su-27 HUD footage, i beleive the recent one that was posted here from Lypetsk... so it is a realistic implementation... Tim "Breakshot" Mytrofanov | C.O. of 51 ПВО / 100 КИАП Regiments | twitch.tv/51breakshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Sqn_Sven Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Kind of doesn't make much sense. IAS in combat modes is the relevant one, TAS is only useful really in the Nav mode. But if that's what the manual says... 3Sqn - Largest distributor of Flanker, Fulcrum and Frogfoot parts in the Black Sea Region Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Sqn_Sven Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPsL6hH1KIA The video starts in Nav mode with 550km/h indicated. Shortly later the BVR mode is selected with airspeed at 495km/h and 1900m. It COULD be TAS, but if it was, they are starting the fight at probably low 400's IAS...pretty damn slow. Anyway, only conjecture. 3Sqn - Largest distributor of Flanker, Fulcrum and Frogfoot parts in the Black Sea Region Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR_Reisen Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Show TAS speed is need to know the target speed. for example: You are flying at SL while locking a target in a higher flight level that you are pursuing. You are flying at 500IAS and him at 470. are you catching him? Maybe not, he could have a greater TAS because he is flying higher even with lower IAS. That is why in BVR modes your TAS and target TAS are displayed on HUD. Of course in visual combat modes IAS is displayed. Ok, But why not to show target IAS refered to your flight level instead to target flight level? Because you maybe have a wingmen flying in another flight level and he needs the target speed. If you telling him the target IAS refered to your FL or target FL could have no sense. That is why you need true speed 1 Ing. Tec. Aeronautico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvanK Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 (edited) The video linked by Sven shows IAS there is no TAS "N" suffix to the digits initially. When he gets a lock at 2:04 into the video, The speed changes to TAS this shows as 845N (or a cryllic reverse N). When he breaks/looses lock at 2:41 it changes back to IAS. In FC2 we get TAS with N as soon as you go into a Search mode. It stays in TAS with STT. However in NAV,AG modes or any CAC it stays in IAS. So if the video is a source we should only get TAS in STT on both the MIG29 and SU27/33 I have looked through a Russian SU27K manual from start to finish. All HUD presentations in this manual show IAS/CAS. Edited April 22, 2010 by IvanK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Sqn_Sven Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Show TAS speed is need to know the target speed. for example: You are flying at SL while locking a target in a higher flight level that you are pursuing. You are flying at 500IAS and him at 470. are you catching him? Maybe not, he could have a greater TAS because he is flying higher even with lower IAS. That is why in BVR modes your TAS and target TAS are displayed on HUD. Of course in visual combat modes IAS is displayed. Ok, But why not to show target IAS refered to your flight level instead to target flight level? Because you maybe have a wingmen flying in another flight level and he needs the target speed. If you telling him the target IAS refered to your FL or target FL could have no sense. That is why you need true speed If IAS is shown in CAC and Helmut then that makes sense. 3Sqn - Largest distributor of Flanker, Fulcrum and Frogfoot parts in the Black Sea Region Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin_Hood Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Yeah, only Beyond Visual Range mode gives TAS (excluding STT), which makes sense, cause I don't need my CAS/IAS in close combat. As for STT? does it show TAS when locked from BVR mode and IAS/CAS when locked from any other mode ? (the STT already wasn't consistent, anyway, since it gave target speed only when locked from BVR modes (radar or EOS)) 2nd French Fighter Squadron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilBivol-1 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 IvanK, you are correct in that TAS should only be shown once the target is locked in BVR mode. In the simulation however, TAS is shown in SCAN mode as well. - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakshot Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 The video linked by Sven shows IAS there is no TAS "N" suffix to the digits initially. When he gets a lock at 2:04 into the video, The speed changes to TAS this shows as 845N (or a cryllic reverse N). When he breaks/looses lock at 2:41 it changes back to IAS. In FC2 we get TAS with N as soon as you go into a Search mode. It stays in TAS with STT. However in NAV,AG modes or any CAC it stays in IAS. So if the video is a source we should only get TAS in STT on both the MIG29 and SU27/33 I have looked through a Russian SU27K manual from start to finish. All HUD presentations in this manual show IAS/CAS. Good point! I have missed this... perhaps something to PM the devs, or put up in their "Fix" list? Tim "Breakshot" Mytrofanov | C.O. of 51 ПВО / 100 КИАП Regiments | twitch.tv/51breakshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilBivol-1 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 The devs are aware. The implementation is by design and not currently planned to change. - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 ...I have looked through a Russian SU27K manual from start to finish. All HUD presentations in this manual show IAS/CAS. Su-27K manual? :huh: ......or did you mean Su-27SK? 1 JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvanK Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 SU27SK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 Ok. ....damn! :D JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Sqn_Sven Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 The devs are aware. The implementation is by design and not currently planned to change. Just to confirm it's been deliberately implemented slightly incorrectly? 3Sqn - Largest distributor of Flanker, Fulcrum and Frogfoot parts in the Black Sea Region Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilBivol-1 Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 In Russian, they call this "peculiarity of design." Beyond that, I don't quite know, either. - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvanK Posted May 29, 2010 Author Share Posted May 29, 2010 These videos initially posted by MSVGAS clearly illustrate that IAS is ALWAYS displayed in the Mig 29 HUD even in search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P266...eature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate--IRL-- Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 That first vid is using ED's TFCSE? Didn't know ED did Russian military sims too. Nate Ka-50 AutoPilot/stabilisation system description and operation by IvanK- Essential Reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin_Hood Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 These videos initially posted by MSVGAS clearly illustrate that IAS is ALWAYS displayed in the Mig 29 HUD even in search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P266...eature=related I'm sure the devs are aware of that ;) But as I understand it, the Su-27 and MiG-29 share the same avionics, so they had to make a choice as to the airplane whose avionics is "accurately" implemented Same thing goes for the MFD 2nd French Fighter Squadron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFJackBauer Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 I find it funny that real russian HUD tapes shows that the HUD symbology looks like it is hand drawn, not entirely digital like western HUDs - look how the numbers bottoms doesnt get aligned :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvanK Posted May 30, 2010 Author Share Posted May 30, 2010 (edited) "I'm sure the devs are aware of that ;) But as I understand it, the Su-27 and MiG-29 share the same avionics, so they had to make a choice as to the airplane whose avionics is "accurately" implemented" Yes as has been said ... alas the In game Mig29 HUD is different to the SU27 HUD in terms of Pitch representation so differences exist already. The SU27 references also indicate TAS is not shown as a general rule until STT is achieved. Edited May 30, 2010 by IvanK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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