Hidding in the trees ?

[FZG_Kes]

Hi,

 

It's very annoying not to be able to hide from the AI in the trees. Is this feature planned in a next patch or will we have to deal with it ?

 

I feel that it removes a lot of the possibilities and the fun an helicopter offers.

 

Thanks

[sobek]

AFAIK that would have to be a major engine revision. Don't expect it to happen anytime soon. It wouldn't make sense doing such a major overhaul for a module that will hardly benefit from it (A-10).

Edited April 26, 2010 by sobek

[PeterP]

Is this feature planned in a next patch or will we have to deal with it ?

 

you will find your answers in this thread:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=34398&highlight=trees

 

or take a shortcut and jump direktly to the "Official explanation" from Grisha (ED Team) here:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=584265&mode=linear#post584265

[Bucic]

AFAIK that would have to be a major engine revision. Don't expect it to happen anytime soon. It wouldn't make sense doing such a major overhaul for a module that will hardly benefit from it (A-10).

I don't agree with you this time :)

You can't consider Black Shark an abandonware as soon as A-10C Warthog hits the shelves. This is against the philosophy behind the DCS series. Thus the trees related issues will (should) still be important and adressed ASAP.

[Feuerfalke]

To make that perfectly clear: Sobek didn't say that BlackShark is "abandonware" after the A-10 has been released.

 

You just have to accept the fact that such a huge change is a matter of priorities.And in this even more true, if you consider that it can't be done in a simple patch. So earliest ETA would be in the release after the A-10C.

 

But then, priorities are even more important! What if we really get the F/A-18 after the A-10C or any other multirole jet? Then there are a lot more important things to add to the DCS-engine than collideable vegetation.

 

IMHO most likely ETA for these major changes for helo-warfare is with the next helo simulated. Apache or Hind, whatever it will be and whenever. Other than that, priorities are probably set somewhere else.

 

 

For BlackShark it may be a problem, but no problem that makes the simulation unplayable. For other aircraft it's even lower priority. That has nothing to do with fan or not, rotorhead or not, it's about priorities and resources available.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Feuerfalke

[BuzyBat]

I would say manpads behind trees would be a considerable problem for A-10's too ,if they can see and shoot trough trees ,it's a serious problem.

[Feuerfalke]

I would say manpads behind trees would be a considerable problem for A-10's too ,if they can see and shoot trough trees ,it's a serious problem.

 

And I would say, that is irrelevant.

 

Given the speed and altitudes the A-10 is flying at, he barely has a chance to see a soldier with a stinger, no matter if he's hiding behind a tree or standing in the open field.

 

And it's no useful tactics for an A-10 to evade a stinger by hiding behind a forest either.

 

Besides that, as in Black Shark for this example the right question would not be, how that MANPAD in the middle of a forest can fire through the tree above, but why that MANPAD was hidden in a forest in the first place. ;)

 

 

 

IMHO it's all a matter of perspective. Yes, the AI can fire through trees. So basically you have 3 possible ways of dealing with it:

1. Disable forests and even the chances.

2. Accept the challenge and adapt your tactics.

3. Whine and be happy to have somebody to blame, when you've been shot down again.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Feuerfalke

[coder1024]

this isn't about A-10, its about BS. BS is an awesome product even without this feature, imo, but it is reasonable to want tree cover in a helo sim. I was a bit surprised when I found out about this awhile back.

 

as I understand the DCS series, their goal is to have a system with multiple modules each providing another high-fidelity aircraft. so the engine will continue to evolve, and maybe this feature will find its way in there at some point.

 

clearly BS is not abandonware, we already know they're working on a patch for it which will include online compatibility with FC2. so, no, BS isn't going anywhere and BS will be a prominent part of the overal modular sytem of DCS. its just a matter of time/resource/priority as to when/if they'll be able to address this.

[Feuerfalke]

That's true.

 

I also have no doubt it will come.

As you pointed out, the only question is when.

[FZG_Kes]

you will find your answers in this thread:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=34398&highlight=trees

 

or take a shortcut and jump direktly to the "Official explanation" from Grisha (ED Team) here:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=584265&mode=linear#post584265

 

Thanks i didn't see this thread (should be in the FAQ or I missed it).

[Ramstein]

at least the trees don't kill you in BS and FC..

Oleg's invisible trees have no mercy..

:lol::megalol:

[Feuerfalke]

LOL - true :D

[sage0030]

Hi,

 

It's very annoying not to be able to hide from the AI in the trees. Is this feature planned in a next patch or will we have to deal with it ?

 

I feel that it removes a lot of the possibilities and the fun an helicopter offers.

 

Thanks

 

 

well I guess if the roters are not hitting the trees how could that be a problem anway, :pilotfly:do you expect to fly through the trees or somthing, would that be realistic?

Edited April 26, 2010 by sage0030

[EtherealN]

Sage, I think you completely misunderstood him... ;)

[GuntiNDDS]

well, if they added modelling of trees breaking line of sight, they will also need to modell ground units being able to hear you and make 'guess shots' through the trees.

[FZG_Kes]

When the AI shoot can't you "just" :

 

- check if the player is above a tree cube

- check his altitude

- check the distance from the AI

 

If the player is above a tree and not above a road, and altitude lesser than 15 meters and distance > 500m then the AI can't fire :D

 

That may do the trick without modelling everything, it's not perfect but maybe better than it is today.

 

Just a guess ;)

[EtherealN]

I don't quite agree that it is better than it is today - you'll basically run into issues with every clearing in any forest. It would have worked if the forests were like the IL-2 ones, but not here. Well, at least not without introducing a couple more checks to that checklist.

[FZG_Kes]

I agree, was thinking of that too while writing it.

 

Well, no need to push further this post which seems to have been discussed already many times.

 

Bad use of search function, I'll try harder next time :)

[EtherealN]

No problem mate - the search function can be a bit finicky sometimes.

[flow-master]

In my opinion there should be some kind of warning label

(like on cigarette boxes) on every copy of DCS BS. On the label should be written:

 

"THIS ATTACK HELICOPTER SIM DOES NOT HAVE COLLIDABLE TREES AND ENEMY CAN SEE YOU THROUGH TREES AND HIT YOU THROUGH TREES".

 

It is not fair to us combat sim fans. Nobody could ever expect such major flaw in a attack helicopter sim :no_sad:. Trees and forrests are just to much important for heli sim. I would never buy DCS BS, if I knew that. There is no more fun for me in combat flying.

[EtherealN]

You need to mark your sarcasm better with smileys. :P

[159th_Viper]

....There is no more fun for me in combat flying.

 

You need to keep an open mind......There are indeed Engagement Scenarios/Parameters that exclude the existence of trees for accurate representations of a Combat Sortie ;)

 

It's all about Mastering the Helo......Blowing $hite up is Secondary :)

[Ramstein]

note: if you try to lockup a target using the targeting system with your helo, you missle may not hit the target on the other side of a fence..

 

also, if you feel safe behind a building you may not be as safe as you think..

 

just some observations and experiences.. in Black Shark..

 

not saying anything is wrong,, just an FYI..

:joystick:

[Feuerfalke]

In my opinion there should be some kind of warning label

(like on cigarette boxes) on every copy of DCS BS. On the label should be written:

 

"THIS ATTACK HELICOPTER SIM DOES NOT HAVE COLLIDABLE TREES AND ENEMY CAN SEE YOU THROUGH TREES AND HIT YOU THROUGH TREES".

 

It is not fair to us combat sim fans. Nobody could ever expect such major flaw in a attack helicopter sim :no_sad:. Trees and forrests are just to much important for heli sim. I would never buy DCS BS, if I knew that. There is no more fun for me in combat flying.

 

 

ROFLOL :lol:

 

Sorry, had to imagine that quote coming from a helo-pilot in Afghanistan or Iraq whining that he's not able to hide behind trees and therefore wants to retire. :megalol:

[Speed]

ROFLOL :lol:

 

Sorry, had to imagine that quote coming from a helo-pilot in Afghanistan or Iraq whining that he's not able to hide behind trees and therefore wants to retire. :megalol:

Right, but this is Georgia, not Afghanistan.

 

There are trees here, and enemies can hide behind them and shoot you while you are unable to see them. However, even merely moderately competent mission designers place units so that none are hiding behind or inside trees from the approach directions that the pilots are supposed to take. This offsets some of the negative effects of the see-through trees, but it still is a problem. It isn't a game-killer for most people, but I respect those that feel it is for them.