Dual Throttles

[M31]

Edit by Panzertard: Thread and content has been split out from "DCS wishlist".

All replies should be considered as replies to an offtopic debate that started there.

 

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Anything ED decides to do will be top notch

 

Hope they fix the BASIC dual throttle axis controller problem with BS and FC2 in the Saitek X-65F before other Top Notch stuff. The Dual Throttle still does not work in BS or FC2 properly, it works fine in Lock On and other sims that use a dual throttle though.

 

I've talked to Saitek and ED, its ED that are seeming to be awkward and dragging heels in this case :(

 

ED are not the Holy Grail.

 

If twin throttle works in Lock On (and it does) it should work in BS and FC2 too, it does not :(

 

The worst part is the secrecy, WTF???? its as if us Customers don't count any-more?

 

Were the last to know about major Bug fixes like this ... and we should be as paying people, be amongst the first to know.

 

One things for sure, this axis/slider fault is in ED's area ... hope they patch it soon.

 

The Full Sim HQ review is out any day now, they are bound to highlight this problem too?

Edited May 3, 2010 by Panzertard
Thread split out, info for all

[104th_Crunch]

Hope they fix the BASIC dual throttle axis controller problem with BS and FC2 in the Saitek X-65F before other Top Notch stuff. The Dual Throttle still does not work in BS or FC2 properly, it works fine in Lock On and other sims that use a dual throttle though.

 

I've talked to Saitek and ED, its ED that are seeming to be awkward and dragging heels in this case :(

 

ED are not the Holy Grail.

 

If twin throttle works in Lock On (and it does) it should work in BS and FC2 too, it does not :(

 

The worst part is the secrecy, WTF???? its as if us Customers don't count any-more?

 

Were the last to know about major Bug fixes like this ... and we should be as paying people, be amongst the first to know.

 

One things for sure, this axis/slider fault is in ED's area ... hope they patch it soon.

 

The Full Sim HQ review is out any day now, they are bound to highlight this problem too?

 

Rant on... The cup is half full, be positive. Why people must be so negative is beyond me. As for secrecy, many of the ED team frequent the forums and post about these kind of issues. Fixes are not always announced because, what if they simply cannot fix it? What if ED said we will try, but then can't? You and others would then flame them to no end. What if ED can't fix the dual throttle. What if it's too hard to fix?! All of this and your post is off topic. This post is about what people would like for the next aircraft in DCS, and ED are listening. Rant off...

[M31]

Rant on... The cup is half full, be positive. Why people must be so negative is beyond me. As for secrecy, many of the ED team frequent the forums and post about these kind of issues. Fixes are not always announced because, what if they simply cannot fix it? What if ED said we will try, but then can't? You and others would then flame them to no end. What if ED can't fix the dual throttle. What if it's too hard to fix?! All of this and your post is off topic. This post is about what people would like for the next aircraft in DCS, and ED are listening. Rant off...

 

I cant believe you are so submissive?

[104th_Crunch]

I cant believe you are so submissive?

Not submissive, just like to be optimistic and constructive. I hope your issue may get fixed.

[M31]

Not submissive, just like to be optimistic and constructive. I hope your issue may get fixed.

 

 

And I hope you never have any issues, because if you do, you can be sure some smart alec will be along to dismiss them, saying how they are optimistic and constructive.

 

To be constructive you sometimes need to stop bowing down, and say look Here, something needs to be done about this.

 

I've went through the proper channels on both sides and quite frankly I'm fed up of jumping through hoops and being passed from pillar to post, after that this stuff spills onto the forums and upsets guys like you.

 

What can I say?

 

EDIT ... as a foot note and clarification, the X-65F dual throttle works fine in all sims including the original Lock On, Its Black Shark and Flaming Cliffs 2 new software axis routine that is Fubar ... If ED would just say, yes it will be fixed in the next patch, that would be my wish for this wish list thread, contrary to what you may think - I do have vast reserves of patience and would wait for this, but being ignored and being kept in the dark is just a bit too much ... or if they cant or wont remedy this as you suggest, then please just say so too.

 

Would save a lot of grief.

Edited April 26, 2010 by M31

[Groove]

Hope they fix the BASIC dual throttle axis controller problem with BS and FC2 in the Saitek X-65F before other Top Notch stuff. The Dual Throttle still does not work in BS or FC2 properly, it works fine in Lock On and other sims that use a dual throttle though.

 

I've talked to Saitek and ED, its ED that are seeming to be awkward and dragging heels in this case :(

 

ED are not the Holy Grail.

 

If twin throttle works in Lock On (and it does) it should work in BS and FC2 too, it does not :(

 

The worst part is the secrecy, WTF???? its as if us Customers don't count any-more?

 

Were the last to know about major Bug fixes like this ... and we should be as paying people, be amongst the first to know.

 

One things for sure, this axis/slider fault is in ED's area ... hope they patch it soon.

 

The Full Sim HQ review is out any day now, they are bound to highlight this problem too?

 

I don't know what kind of secrecy you mean but the split throttle problem is known by ED and SAITEK and it's being worked on.

[M31]

Thanks for breaking the silence from ED's side, Saitek were open and honest to us from the start about this.

[joey45]

Thanks for breaking the silence from ED's side, Saitek were open and honest to us from the start about this.

 

breaking what, It was mentioned a few weeks back on what ED were doing...

[M31]

breaking what, It was mentioned a few weeks back on what ED were doing...

 

And there was NO mention on the issue I've bought up.

 

What were ED Doing that could have helped this thread?

 

STOP IT

 

Stop putting ED on a pedestal or there is absolutely no point in complaining ... God Forbid ... Moving forward.

 

Some folks do have Issues with ED products, the Likely lads chiming up saying I'm Cool, or its all nice for me are just basic Grovellers ... Sorry.

 

I've seen some of you guys get way overprotective on ED on issues that might effect you in the future, but too dumb slow to wake up on matters that count.

 

Its Funny.

 

ED would like the negative side of things silenced, so would some of the minions here too.

Edited May 2, 2010 by M31

[71st_Mastiff]

Not to pour salt on your wounds but they are working on it. and Looks of things not fast enough for you eh? :pilotfly:

 

Come on be optimistic the Wrathog A10 split throatle is coming and I think I might get that one so hope it gets fixed and fast...

 

 

And there was NO mention on the issue I've bought up.

 

What were ED Doing that could have helped this thread?

 

STOP IT

 

Stop putting ED on a pedestal or there is absolutely no point in complaining ... God Forbid ... Moving forward.

 

Some folks do have Issues with ED products, the Likely lads chiming up saying I'm Cool, or its all nice for me are just basic Grovellers ... Sorry.

 

I've seen some of you guys get way overprotective on ED on issues that might effect you in the future, but too dumb slow to wake up on matters that count.

 

Its Funny.

 

ED would like the negative side of things silenced, so would some of the minions here too.

Edited May 2, 2010 by Mastiff

[M31]

Not to pour salt on your wounds but they are working on it. and Looks of things not fast enough for you eh? :pilotfly:

 

I know ... I'm Hot headed, but after reading the Forums since I bought FC2 and BS ... I just knew I'd have a run in with that regular Joey Guy and others, and they would settle on the side that suits them.

 

Grrrrrrrr

 

My (at first suggestions) now complaints are legitimate, ED changed the axis software routine from the old Lockon (that works perfectly in dual throttle, as does other sims) to something that does NOT work in BS and FC2 now?

 

Whats the bloody point of having a dual throttle HOTAS, if the main sims you aim it at wont support it?

 

Go Figure? ... this is the same company that years ago, ignored my plea's for them them to implement toe brakes in Lockon ... still all these years on, ignored?

 

So the only avenue after all other support channels fail, Saitek and ED passing the Buck ... I post here.

 

I'll be banned soon.

 

Come on be optimistic the Warthog A10 split throttle is coming and I think I might get that one so hope it gets fixed and fast...

[sobek]

I'll be banned soon.

 

Nobody get's banned for construcitve criticism. People got banned for loosing their manners instead of being constructive, so if that's your thing, you are going to be banned.

[M31]

I know ... I'm Hot headed, but after reading the Forums since I bought FC2 and BS ... I just knew I'd have a run in with that regular Joey guy and others, and they would settle on the side that suits them.

 

Grrrrrrrr

 

My (at first suggestions) now complaints are legitimate, ED changed the axis software routine from the old Lockon (that works perfectly in dual throttle, as does other sims) to something that does NOT work in BS and FC2 now?

 

They actually changed something that worked to something that does not ... WTF?

 

Whats the bloody point of having a dual throttle HOTAS, if the main sims you aim it at wont support it?

 

Or worse, what's the damn point in a new dual throttle HOTAS that worked fine in LOCKON, works fine in all other sims, but does NOT work properly in the new axis routines introduced in BS and FC2 ... and in all likely-hood, DCS Warthog until we get it sorted?

 

Thats the current Status Quo, and it Sucks. In corespendance (and I'm Saiteks biggest critic) its ED that are being awkward and dragging heels here.

 

Go Figure? ... this is the same company that years ago, ignored my plea's for them to implement toe brakes in Lockon ... still all these years on, after much more requests and actual physical pedals here there and everywhere for years now that now support this feature, the company that prides its self on detail are still ignoring or sweeping under the carpet basic important details such as this, and again on basic controller axis provision, so what chance they fix the dual throttle issue :(

 

So the only avenue after all other support channels fail, Saitek and ED passing the Buck, hence why ... I post here.

 

OK, I'll be banned soon.

 

The ED Fan Buoys want only gushing praise here it seems.

Edited May 2, 2010 by M31

[M31]

if that's your thing, you are going to be banned.

 

Another call from the lets sweep it under the carpet I'm OK Jack, crowd :(

 

This could have all passed as a casual comment, but for ED Fhanboy intervention.

 

God forbid you ever have a genuine gripe, because I and others will be on your tail dismissing it instantly.

 

I'm a damn ED Customer and my moneys is as good as yours and I WILL NOT BE SHUT UP!!!!

 

TY.

Edited May 2, 2010 by M31

[gekoiq]

Another call from the lets sweep it under the carpet I'm OK Jack, crowd :(

 

This could have all passed as a casual comment, but for ED Fhanboy intervention.

 

God forbid you ever have a genuine gripe, because I and others will be on your tail dismissing it instantly.

 

I'm a damn ED Customer and my moneys is as good as yours and I WILL NOT BE SHUT UP!!!!

 

TY.

 

When it all comes down to it dude, ED owes you absolutely nothing. It's YOUR choice whether to spend the money on the product that they put out. If you dont like it, don't buy it. Period.

 

Now get over yourself and start acting like an adult.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

M31, did they advertise that it supported dual-throttle?

 

If they didn't, then they don't own you a thing, really.

 

"Oh, c'mon, my G-suit, my helmet, my oxygen mask and my ejection seat don't work at all! What's the freakin' point of having an ejection seat when the main sims you intended to use it with don't support it?!"

 

See the point?

 

Yes, it would be better if dual-throttle (and ejection seats and G-suits, for that matter) worked in game, and ED knows about it.

 

However, sometimes the number of features asked is overwhelming, and some can't be implemented in time, considering the size of the team.

 

All features they couldn't put in LO 2.0 will be implemented in DCS:A-10C (or even in the "Platinum" patch), and the features that didn't get ready in time for those will be seen in DCS:Fulc... ah, nevermind, you got the point, right? :music_whistling:

[M31]

M31, did they advertise that it supported dual-throttle?

 

If they didn't, then they don't own you a thing, really.

 

"Oh, c'mon, my G-suit, my helmet, my oxygen mask and my ejection seat don't work at all! What's the freakin' point of having an ejection seat when the main sims you intended to use it with don't support it?!"

 

See the point?

 

 

Oh stop it ....

 

How many Thrustmaster or Saitek G-Suit, Oxygen mask and ejection seat hardware purchases do you see out there? You are being absolutely silly now and your point is ludicrous and nonsensical.

 

How many Dual Throttle HOTAS units are there out there now that are affordable, I see at least two with the forthcoming TM Warthog as well.

 

Think about it, would it not be nice to have a Warthog HOTAS and a DCS Warthog sim that actually use both throttles ... the way you guys are going with low standards, we'll have less functionality ... is that the way of it?

 

Not to mention ED's reluctance to implement toe brakes for an abundance of rudder pedals that now support this.

 

I've had my say, if any more ED Fhanbouys want to stab me in the back to look good in front of your peers, go ahead ... at least ED now know their lack of support is in the Public domain and the ball is very firmly in THEIR court.

 

Dont get me wrong ... check my post history ... I'm a big fan of ED, but they are far from perfect and the two fundamental flaws in hardware axis support since Lockon are howling errors that need to be sorted, not just for BS and FC2, but future sims from ED too ... Hard core Combat sim is making a revival, lets keep it going fwd please, we do not need simplification in area's like this, especially when the hardware HOTAS market has never been better.

 

Cheers.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

M31, what makes you think that ED doesn't want to implement that as well?

 

C'mon, they love flight sims more than most here do, and they do know that these features are interesting and add to immersion.

 

What makes you think they don't want to implement those features? It's not as easy as you think to insert, test and debug more features.

 

ED doesn't have a huge team in any way, and civilian flight sims aren't their only market. They also deal with military-grade simulations, and that's a lot more time consuming. The main reasons why you don't see every feature implemented right away:

 

• Lack of time
  
• Lack of personnel
  
• More important things to care about.
  

Is it nice to have toe brakes and multi-throttle support? Of course! And they'll probably implement it at some point. But it's not as important as debugging and fixing already implemented features, for instance.

 

Do you see what I mean? I'd love to have, say, support for a G-force simulator (and the simulator itself :P), but there are a lot of things way more important than that to be looked at.

 

Does it mean I'll never see a G-force simulator? No. It just means that it's not a top priority at the moment. But when major features and problems are sorted out, there will be members available for working on a new feature, and so it will be done.

 

Trust me, it's 200 times better to have a bug-free simulator with an x number of features than having one with 5x features and loads of bugs in all of them :smilewink:

[M31]

I'm wasting my time.

 

whatever.

[M31]

Though this was a wish list for airframes not a wish list for everything else....

 

Getting some fundamental axis controls for modern Sim hardware for future airframes would be a good idea too.

 

Twin throttle in modern HOTAS is lacking, individual toe brakes as supported in other sims and lots of current Rudder pedals is still lacking, we ar now straying into arcade territory ... not much point in having dual throtles if they can only be seen as one ... I honestly think ED just say, sod them, we wont do it to spite them ? ... Egos are massive everywhere and I'm sick fed up of dancing around them.

 

It was stuff like this that killed off the last generation of hard core flight simmers.

 

Please not lets go through that Papa Doc (Flight Sim hero) crap again, he talked for everyone, and in the end turned out to be a drunken bigoted Bum.

Edited May 2, 2010 by M31

[Groove]

M31, did you got the message i wrote here:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=889325&postcount=205

 

Please stop whining about the same issue or i will remove additional postings about it. Obviously you have zero clue about what is done to get the situation solved. You have brought a valid point about that feature of the game not working, but it's enough now.

[M31]

M31, did you got the message i wrote here:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=889325&postcount=205

 

Please stop whining about the same issue or i will remove additional postings about it. Obviously you have zero clue about what is done to get the situation solved. You have brought a valid point about that feature of the game not working, but it's enough now.

 

 

 

Whining?

 

What an attitude?

 

You were one of the early guys who boasted about having an X-65, but was reluctant to post opinions, we know now why, because of the new BS and FC2 new axis routine, its not recognised.

 

It simply does not work.

 

Hence your silence. Tell me I'm a Liar when you hit the ban button, tell me I'm a LIAR.

 

I have many clues ... I beta test hardware for Saitek.

 

Now go ahead and ban me.

 

Lets sweep this stuff under the carpet.

 

Threats ... I've seen it all now :(

Edited May 2, 2010 by M31

[159th_Viper]

Whining?

 

What an attitude?

 

You were one of the early guys who boasted about having an X-65, but was reluctant to post opinions, we know now why, because of the new BS and FC2 new axis routine, its not recognised.

 

It simply does not work.

 

Hence your silence. Tell me I'm a Liar when you hit the ban button, tell me I'm a LIAR.

 

I have many clues ... I beta test hardware for Saitek.

 

Now go ahead and ban me.

 

Lets sweep this stuff under the carpet.

 

Threats ... I've seen it all now :(

 

 

Someone has to say it........What you're looking for can be found here:

 

Interested in argument? Want a forum where you don't get banned? Want a bloody good laugh? Have you been removed from other sites and forums because you are a "troll" and unfairly treated.

 

Are you a nuisance or even a fcukwit that's likes cutting wit in debate. The trollhouse is for you. The Trollhouse is a place where experienced and well practised opinionated people can talk current affairs and politics via text of a live chatroom Trolls, of course, are often not nuisances at all, but those that can hold a good argument that some don't like. "Trolls" are often right There is intellectual debate in a pub like atmosphere which does often descend into all out verbal abuse, which is fun, if not conducive to arguing the point Don't come in here hoping for an easy ride.

 

We are very argumentative, but there is good debate and it's very funny You will like being here But we like posters here. No point in registering and doing nothing. This means you POST OR PISS OFF A couple of posts a week won't hurst will it. Preferably more There you are. Simple!

 

http://www.thetrollhouse.net/forum/

 

Cheers ;)

[M31]

 

EDIT: M31 I think you are overreacting a bit, don't you think? If ED guys already know what's the problem and if they are solving what is your point? Being off topic and tell those things over an over again? If there are bugs, if dual throttle is not recognized, if differencial braking is not working, they already know it and probably are working on it or not. Either way it's they choice and there is not point in saying some of the things you just said.

 

One thing is constructive criticism another is saying something that doesn't help at all.

 

Just my thoughts about yours.

 

Regards.

 

Yeah, whatever ... I've been told to shut up.

[M31]

All it would take, is for an official ED announcement, along the lines ... M31 and co are quite correct, we should have implemented toe brakes a long time ago, and our axis routine in new dual throttle controllers is Broken ... But we'll fix it, please bear with us.