Mizzy Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 The AFM for the Su25t and Su25 thingy.... so what ;) I bought Flanker 1 then 1.5 and 2 which developed into 2.5 (thank you!) and then I bought LOMAC, all because it modelled the worlds best military aircraft ever!!! THE SU27 period. So WHY WHY WHY did we not get the Su 27 AFM in an upgrade to Flanker 2 (aka Lock on Modern air combat) ?????? Flanker 2 was an incredible flight sim, I just thought LOMAC would have given us the AFM for the Su27 FIRST before anything else. Please do not get me wrong 1.1 is FANTASTIC but where is the AFM for my Sue!!! :( I very unhappy Mizzy.
VVanks Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 Don't ask me. I'm as upset as your are, because it was Flanker 2.5 which got me into the whole Russian flight simming (before I was USAFing all the way). I expected too much from Lomac, and was dissapointed at what I got. Still, I kept on playing. And the game got better and better. Just wait, this game will get much better, be patient. Homepage: http://www.worldwynd.net Coming Soon: http://www.simplywyn.com
Wolverine Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 It has been reported that a new AFM for each aircraft takes 6 months to "build". After the whole 1.1 release date drama. How do you think people would react being told to wait 6 more months for a new AFM for the SU-27? "I don't fly the SU-25/27 I fly "X plane". Where is the AFM for "X Plane" would be the cry. (replace Xplane with other types) Its far better that they give us something to play with until the next gen sim where ED has full legal and financial control over. Asus ROG Strix B-560-F, Intel i9-11900k, EVGA GTX 3080 Ti FTW3 Ultra, Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-24000, 1TB WD Blue SN550 NVME SSD, Asus PB287Q 28" 3840x2160 TN 4K, Thrustmaster Warthog + F/A-18 HOTAS, Thrustmaster MFD Cougar, Thrustmaster TFRP rudder, Razer orbweaver chroma. The artist formerly known as VVS 504 Wolverine.
Mizzy Posted May 2, 2005 Author Posted May 2, 2005 Wolvy baby! That is not my point!!!! Flanker 1, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5 and LOMAC was primarily about the Su27 which was incidently why I bought the series. I am from the UK and I find USA jets plain boring, so the Flanker series was just way too cool :) anyway I just thought that the original market for the Flanker series would have got in LOMAC 1.1 the AFM for the Su27 above anything else ;) I am totally wrong i know but what the feck made ED go for the Su25 and the Su25T as the big Kahoona for selling 1.1!!! Surely the Su27 (possiblythe Mig 29) is the big draw on FC and LOMAC in general? Mizzy.
Wolverine Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 Wolvy baby! That is not my point!!!! Flanker 1, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5 and LOMAC was primarily about the Su27 which was incidently why I bought the series. I am from the UK and I find USA jets plain boring, so the Flanker series was just way too cool :) anyway I just thought that the original market for the Flanker series would have got in LOMAC 1.1 the AFM for the Su27 above anything else ;) I am totally wrong i know but what the feck made ED go for the Su25 and the Su25T as the big Kahoona for selling 1.1!!! Surely the Su27 (possiblythe Mig 29) is the big draw on FC and LOMAC in general? Mizzy. Don't get me wrong I'm in the same position as you in regards of taste of jet so don't worry I know how you feel. I'm more of a half full kind of guy. :icon_wink As for the SU-25T inclusion. I think ED wanted to include a jet with the same if not better systems that the A-10. Afterall we know how superior the Sues are in a2a combat. :wink: :p Asus ROG Strix B-560-F, Intel i9-11900k, EVGA GTX 3080 Ti FTW3 Ultra, Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-24000, 1TB WD Blue SN550 NVME SSD, Asus PB287Q 28" 3840x2160 TN 4K, Thrustmaster Warthog + F/A-18 HOTAS, Thrustmaster MFD Cougar, Thrustmaster TFRP rudder, Razer orbweaver chroma. The artist formerly known as VVS 504 Wolverine.
Mizzy Posted May 2, 2005 Author Posted May 2, 2005 Sorry Wolve I didn't mean to offend, just wondered why ED did what they did! I apologies. Mizzy
GGTharos Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 No, the 27 isn't 'the' draw ... everyone likes something different. I don't much care for the RUssian birds, but I fly them now and then for my own reasons ;) Not to say they're not fun, they just don't interest me that much. The Su-25/T got the AFM because that's what was in the plan. Period. No news here. ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Wolverine Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 Sorry Wolve I didn't mean to offend, just wondered why ED did what they did! I apologies. Mizzy don't worry, you didn't. I know how it is at this time of the morning when the brain needs some sleep. :) EDIT: Bloody Keyboard ARGH. Asus ROG Strix B-560-F, Intel i9-11900k, EVGA GTX 3080 Ti FTW3 Ultra, Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-24000, 1TB WD Blue SN550 NVME SSD, Asus PB287Q 28" 3840x2160 TN 4K, Thrustmaster Warthog + F/A-18 HOTAS, Thrustmaster MFD Cougar, Thrustmaster TFRP rudder, Razer orbweaver chroma. The artist formerly known as VVS 504 Wolverine.
Mizzy Posted May 2, 2005 Author Posted May 2, 2005 Well he is called Findlay James and he is three week old!!! :) The little buggar wakes up every 2 hours for feeding, this is my rest period LOL! Mizzy
Mizzy Posted May 2, 2005 Author Posted May 2, 2005 No, the 27 isn't 'the' draw ... everyone likes something different. I don't much care for the RUssian birds, but I fly them now and then for my own reasons ;) Not to say they're not fun, they just don't interest me that much. The Su-25/T got the AFM because that's what was in the plan. Period. No news here. ;) Well I am sorry but the Su27 was the 'draw' in Flanker series, err maby why it was called em ... flanker :D Now come on, there must be a reason why the best military airframe in the world didn't get the AFM in 1.1!!???? Where is the official word! Mizzy
GGTharos Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 Well I am sorry but the Su27 was the 'draw' in Flanker series, err maby why it was called em ... flanker :D Now come on, there must be a reason why the best military airframe in the world didn't get the AFM in 1.1!!???? Where is the official word! Mizzy That would be because as of LOMAC it's not the 'flanker' series? I mean, the addition of other aircraft, specifically on the NATO side, ought to hint at a thing or two. LOMAC isn't about the Flanker, nor is it about any one of the specific aircraft in the game. It's a completely different thing now that it's gone multinational, and insofar as modern combat jet sims go, I think it's pretty much a first in that respect. And no, the Flanker isn't the 'best military airframe' in existance. ;) Or more to the point, because that would imply that there is a better one, it would be more appropriate for me to say that it is debatable (As in, argue all you want but I'm not getting drawn into it) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Mizzy Posted May 2, 2005 Author Posted May 2, 2005 I am not offended dear poster, but my tits are bloody sore and back to it I go!! Nite Wolve :) Mizzy
GGTharos Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 And tehe actual answer to your question: Because it would have required the other fighter aircraft to get AFM as well, and that takes time. The Su-25/T doesn't have to compete with the other aircraft in AA combat for the most part, so it's a better choice. Teh A-10 was supposed to get it through, but again, time constraints. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
TekaTeka Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 I think AFM for Su-27 is far more difficult than the one for Su-25. Su-27 is a supersonic aircraft and it has the special characteristics at high AOA maneuver AKA cobra. Su-25 was a good choice as a first try of AFM. TekaTeka from Japan [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Visit my site Beyond Visual Range.
BuzzU Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 They should have given both sides something. How about adding the SU-25T and put the AFM on the F-15..:D Buzz
BBQ Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 I never the flew the Russian A/C--until now, with the AFM on the Su-25. I won't fly anything else :) Incedentally--is it me, or does the Frog have a highter resolution model/paint scheme thant he A-10?
Andrew_McP Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 I think AFM for Su-27 is far more difficult than the one for Su-25. Agreed. Although I'm as big a fan of the 27 as anyone else, I think it'll be a while before we see the AFM for it.... and even then I'm not sure ED will ever be able to allow us to do unscripted kobras. That will always be the holy grail, but it will require very, very complex modelling of aerodynamic drag and weight distribution as the aircraft moves into high AOA situations. Of course it may be possible to cheat a little and still give us a wonderful experience :-) Andrew McP
SUBS17 Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 Andrew if you take a look at the demo tracks, in particular the one named super flanker you'll notice that the Flanker FM has been tweaked and the cobra is much improved. And as for the Super flanker track with ACS disabled, thats very good flying whoever it was. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC]
SUBS17 Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 The AFM for the Su25t and Su25 thingy.... so what ;) I bought Flanker 1 then 1.5 and 2 which developed into 2.5 (thank you!) and then I bought LOMAC, all because it modelled the worlds best military aircraft ever!!! THE SU27 period. So WHY WHY WHY did we not get the Su 27 AFM in an upgrade to Flanker 2 (aka Lock on Modern air combat) ?????? Flanker 2 was an incredible flight sim, I just thought LOMAC would have given us the AFM for the Su27 FIRST before anything else. Please do not get me wrong 1.1 is FANTASTIC but where is the AFM for my Sue!!! :( I very unhappy Mizzy. If you go back and take a look at all those games you'll notice each one just gets better and better. I think the reason for the SU25 AFM is because its a bit easier to model than the Flanker and they are probably using it too test the AFM on the market. From what I have read after the Ka50 addon the next project is a whole new Sim with fully modeled avionics and AFM starting possibly with the F-16. From there who knows what they make but hopefully it will be a Flanker to bring balance and to give an adversary to the F-16. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC]
ZoomBoy27 Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 If the add-on was just an AFM for a plane that's already included, it'd be considered a patch. A patch you'd love but wouldn't add any new interest. We had this earlier debate about what makes an add-on and adding the combo of new aircraft+AFM would fit the minimum requirements not just an AFM. And when it comes to on-line play, exactly how screwed up would it be to have a non-AFM versus an AFM fighter. We've enough problems now with re-working the F-15, nobody would want to fly it against an AFM'ed Su-27. This would damage the on-line play with people not wanting to play the "loser" plane. ZoomBoy My Flight Sims Page - Link to My Blog - Sims and Things - DCS Stuff++ - Up-to-Speed Guides to the old Lockon A10A and Su-25T - Some missions [needs update]
MBT Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 I am not offended dear poster, but my tits are bloody sore and back to it I go!! Nite Wolve :) Mizzy Can't believe no-one's said CONGRATULATIONS yet! It does get easier, and sleep returns to you eventually, so hang in there! On topic: I think the 25T adds another dimension, i.e. SEAD missions, and if they were putting in all the extra avionics, it makes sense to do the AFM too.
Andrew_McP Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 if you take a look at the demo tracks, in particular the one named super flanker you'll notice that the Flanker FM has been tweaked With the ACS enabled I wasn't too impressed by the tweaked modelling to be honest. But messing about now with ACS disabled I find that not only can you pull a partial kobra (ie start and then change your mind before the AOA gets too great) but you seem to retain much more control towards the end of what used to be the scripted experience. With ACS disabled you also seem to get fewer of those awful "oh look, the plane's dead in the water" stalls. That's a good sign. However it's not a good idea to be messing about with this stuff with realistic blackouts enabled. Otherwise you spend a lot of time staring at a black screen and wondering how high you were :-) Thanks for making me take a harder look at what's going on. Andrew McP PS And as MBT reminds us, congrats to Mizzy!
SUBS17 Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 If the add-on was just an AFM for a plane that's already included, it'd be considered a patch. A patch you'd love but wouldn't add any new interest. We had this earlier debate about what makes an add-on and adding the combo of new aircraft+AFM would fit the minimum requirements not just an AFM. And when it comes to on-line play, exactly how screwed up would it be to have a non-AFM versus an AFM fighter. We've enough problems now with re-working the F-15, nobody would want to fly it against an AFM'ed Su-27. This would damage the on-line play with people not wanting to play the "loser" plane. I consider the 25T my first choice for online play. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC]
Mizzy Posted May 2, 2005 Author Posted May 2, 2005 Can't believe no-one's said CONGRATULATIONS yet! It does get easier, and sleep returns to you eventually, so hang in there! On topic: I think the 25T adds another dimension, i.e. SEAD missions, and if they were putting in all the extra avionics, it makes sense to do the AFM too. Oh thank you very much for your kind post, I hope it does get easier or I am sending it back carrier pigeon :D Mizzy
tflash Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 Well, I must agree that it is a little dazzling to read that FC 1.1 features planes like Su-27, Mig-29, F-15C and .... the incredible Su-25T with its Advanced Flight Model! What is truly lacking is the A-10A with advanced engines model or AEM, so that it can catch up with a flight of goose. I must say I did try the famous AFM a few times, while watching some local Caucasus B&W TV-channel. I guess the boring, somewhat anemic flight characteristics of the Su-25t are wonderfully modelled. If I ever fly it again, I will bring my bag of pop-corn, for sure! Well, I must say it adds to the experience to watch a Su-25T flying its perfect flight somewhere below while I enjoy the curvature of the earth in my high-flying Su-27. See you later, and don't forget to raise your gear! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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