Navigation aids.

[Focha]

Simple question, will A-10C have VOR/TACAN, DME, ILS?

 

Best regards.

[zakobi]

If the real one have it, then yes.

[roob]

If the real one have it, then yes.

 

Do you even know what it is? :P

 

 

This, I would aslo like to know :)

[Frederf]

The DCS:BS engine already has provision for VOR, DME, and ILS built in, just the Ka-50 doesn't have the right radios to make use of it. I hope they do fixed and airborne TACAN as well. TACAN is simply accurate VOR as far as DCS would be concerned so if VOR works so would TACAN.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Frederf

[blaster454]

I agree that having the Navaids would make this sim that much better. Precision navigation is not just for cross country. It has uses in tactics and delivery procedures, as well, and it makes multi-ship and multi-package missions so much more realistic setting up push points and merges.

 

I'm not too hopeful, though, since there has not been any mention of these features. ED have a history (a good one!) of getting all the details on the simulated airframe and weapons package as spot on as they can ... but they are not known for delivering world details that would add to the battle package.

 

I wonder if the Air Force contract called for working navaids?

[element1108]

Navaids for the air force may be redundant as they would have learned all that in flight school. I think the a10c sim contract was to teach systems etc for the upgrade not how to fly using navaides. The contract vs the commercial release are going to be fairly different (more features in commercial). The list of features hasn't been confirmed yet. Good reason to hold off for being flammed if pre release features don't make it into final release. Dragon rising made that mistake and paid the price.

 

Nav aides would be sweet, I can't imagine the majority of players who fly will use them though. I would :D

[Bwaze]

I think A-10C Desktop Training Simulator mainly focused on things new to C version of A-10, it wasn't meant as an accurate simulator of all the aircraft systems (I think most other systems were carried on from Lock On). So I think we'll be getting much more than the ANG and USAF. :)

 

How much use do the various "legacy" navigation systems see now in the era of reliable GPS and detailed map on multifunction display?

 

Will there be functional GPS signal jammers in game?

 

I heard that Navy stopped training navigation by stars. :)

[element1108]

That's a shame, navigation by stars is the basic fundamental of navigation. To know where you're going you should know where you've been. Besides, if they get shot down behind enemy lines the stars may be all they have to rely on.

 

But what do I know about what the navy feels is required knowledge....nothing. :D

[Frederf]

Navy stopped celestial navigation as a requirement in 2005 or something.

[shu77]

Given what weve seen so far in the producers notes and in BS, and how commited ED are to doing things properly, I'm surprised how many people are keen to bash the product before its even out.

Theres an internal test cycle on the HUD start up for crying out loud, can you think of another Sim on the market with that kind of detail?

[slug88]

Given what weve seen so far in the producers notes and in BS, and how commited ED are to doing things properly, I'm surprised how many people are keen to bash the product before its even out.

Theres an internal test cycle on the HUD start up for crying out loud, can you think of another Sim on the market with that kind of detail?

 

Agreed 100%. And as Frederf stated above, the provisions for all these navaids are already present in DCS:BS, so I'd be very much surprised if they weren't available for use in DCS:WH.

[Guest]

I have a feeling that some people in this thread wouldn't even know how to tune to a VOR, let alone understand the consequences or uses of one.

[blaster454]

I have a feeling that some people in this thread wouldn't even know how to tune to a VOR, let alone understand the consequences or uses of one.

 

Some clarification is in order. I did see the italics on the word "some" but feel that the comment was too generally directed against the OP and other posters.

 

First, I am NOT bashing this sim or the developers. I merely commented on a thread regarding nav systems on the new A-10C. I strongly feel they would add to the realism of what is undoubtedly going to be a most realistic simulation. But, as stated, Ed has a history of detail development on the airframe and its systems and not necessarily on world details. This is neither good nor bad ... it is simply a statement of what I believe to be fact.

 

Second, I have in a past life held a private pilot's license and was fairly well completed on instrument and commercial requirements. I can assure you that I know what navaids are and for what they are used. I have also been flying both commercial and military sims for a good many years. While far from being an expert, I am also not without some experience.

 

My comments were meant to reflect my opinion on what would make this sim even better. Can you envision mission planning using real-world navigation systems? I can, and I think it would be great.

 

And remember that it does little good to accurately simulate navigation systems without having functional ground systems modeled as well. This is where I think the sim has a chance to fall short--and that is not meant to mean that it will be a bad simulation. On the contrary, I expect it to be one of the best produced to date. Hopefully, ED will put in the necessary hooks to allow 3rd part developers to add and embellish the needed ground systems if they can't get it included themselves.

[Frederf]

If you've played and/or gotten into the LUAs for Black Shark you would have confidence that at least NDB, VOR, DME, and ILS systems are well and truly a given for all DCS modules.

 

Proper Morse identifiers and even voice broadcast over the ident system are already here.

 

--type

BEACON_NULL = 0

BEACON_VOR = 1

BEACON_DME = 2

BEACON_VOR_DME = 3

BEACON_TACAN = 4

BEACON_VORTAC = 5

BEACON_RSBN = 32

BEACON_HOMER = 8

BEACON_TYPE_AIRPORT_HOMER = 264

BEACON_TYPE_AIRPORT_HOMER_WITH_MARKER = 280

BEACON_TYPE_ILS_HOMER = 1032

BEACON_TYPE_ILS_HOMER_WITH_MARKER = 1048

BEACON_ILS_MARKER = 1040

BEACON_ROUTE_MARKER = 528

BEACON_BROADCAST_STATION = 4096

 

--airport homer type

FAR_HOMER = 1

NEAR_HOMER = 2

[Guest]

Some clarification is in order. I did see the italics on the word "some" but feel that the comment was too generally directed against the OP and other posters.

 

First, I am NOT bashing this sim or the developers. I merely commented on a thread regarding nav systems on the new A-10C. I strongly feel they would add to the realism of what is undoubtedly going to be a most realistic simulation. But, as stated, Ed has a history of detail development on the airframe and its systems and not necessarily on world details. This is neither good nor bad ... it is simply a statement of what I believe to be fact.

 

Second, I have in a past life held a private pilot's license and was fairly well completed on instrument and commercial requirements. I can assure you that I know what navaids are and for what they are used. I have also been flying both commercial and military sims for a good many years. While far from being an expert, I am also not without some experience.

 

My comments were meant to reflect my opinion on what would make this sim even better. Can you envision mission planning using real-world navigation systems? I can, and I think it would be great.

 

And remember that it does little good to accurately simulate navigation systems without having functional ground systems modeled as well. This is where I think the sim has a chance to fall short--and that is not meant to mean that it will be a bad simulation. On the contrary, I expect it to be one of the best produced to date. Hopefully, ED will put in the necessary hooks to allow 3rd part developers to add and embellish the needed ground systems if they can't get it included themselves.

 

Actually, I misread a specific poster's comment and revoke what I said before. Everyone seems to be in agreement -- I think integrating radio based navaids is an excellent idea and agree with you wholly.

[blaster454]

If you've played and/or gotten into the LUAs for Black Shark you would have confidence that at least NDB, VOR, DME, and ILS systems are well and truly a given for all DCS modules.

 

Proper Morse identifiers and even voice broadcast over the ident system are already here.

 

I can appreciate that but it's not clear to me exactly what this means. I always assumed it meant that this was the max number of possible entities of each type that could be in the sim.

 

Where are, for example, the 5 VORTAC facilities located and how can I tell that they are working? Have you been able to monitor Morse ID's for anything other than the inner and outer marker beacons?

 

And are there really 4096 beacon broadcast stations in existence or is the theoretical maximum?

 

As far as I know, the only usable navaids in BS are the two beacons located at the approach ends of runways. Is anyone aware of other navaids in the DCS area?

[Frederf]

Nah, those are "type numbers." Notice that a VOR is a 1, TACAN a 4, and VORTAC just happens to be a 5 (4+1)? Programmers do this all the time. 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, etc. are all sort of "independent" because any sum of a collection of them is unique to that particular collection. Therefore you can know the collection by only knowing one number.

 

In the Ka-50 you can hear the Morse ID for off-airport NDBs (there are quite a few) as well as the inner/outer "homers" which are simply NDBs located at an airfield (To call them "markers" is a bit of an error, markers are non-directional upward-pointing beacons.) You can even use AM radio transmissions like "Radio Mayak (sp)" for both navigation and hearing the radio broadcast over the ident feature. A common cool thing to do was to put custom music replacing the broadcast and use it as a entertainment station while flying. Unfortunately the last patch broke that ability.

 

The Ka-50 even has two modes of listening to the ID, one that is unfiltered for voice and one that squelches the static in between the tones for Morse. (The switch is reversed by the way, ED, fix it!)

 

The Ka-50 has never received VOR, ILS, or similar radio transmissions simply because it lacks that equipment on board.

[Scabbers]

guys from watching the producers note with the ramap start i saw that they have integrated the NAV EGI or Navigation Embedded GPS Inertial Navigation System. The Nav EGI will work hand in hand with the MIDS (Multifunctional Information Display System). The MIDS will provide all TACAN functions and the UHF radio will provide the VOR functions.

[Eddie]

No MIDS in the sim, we'll be getting SADL, it'll be a loooong time before we ever see MIDS in a sim.

[Scabbers]

not saying mids would be there but mids supplies the function of tacan. just elaborated for system interface for the masses to understand.

[Scabbers]

also tell matt that the EGI is not pronounced e-gee.....lol just the letters themselves. EGI

[Kaiza]

not saying mids would be there but mids supplies the function of tacan. just elaborated for system interface for the masses to understand.

 

MIDS is a link 16 terminal, how does it supply TACAN information?

 

 

also tell matt that the EGI is not pronounced e-gee.....lol just the letters themselves. EGI

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=946699&postcount=207

 

I disagree, everyone I know calls 'em eggys

Edited July 28, 2010 by Kaiza

[Scabbers]

MIDS now incorporates the tacan transmitter. here is a link of functions. Although it says option. It gives a nice weight reduction to combine the TACAN and MIDS. and as for the EGI. Those that call it an eggy are obviously not in the industry ;) For 22 years I have never heard Eggy.

[Kaiza]

EDIT: message deleted, dont want to start bickering.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Kaiza

[159th_Viper]

To-mai-toes....To-ma-toes....Does it really matter?

 

I got Heart-Palpatations the first time I read the manual and tried to wrap my aged cranium around the EGI Nav system.....Re-named it Daisy-Duke and now we get along swimmingly :thumbup: