ERI In Multiplayer

[Bvoiash]

Hi people, as you probably already know ERI at the moment is not allowed to be used in almost all of the 24/7 servers that are currently running. What I'm trying to achieve with this thread is to get ERI to be allowed in all of those servers that the different squadrons run, servers that currently do not support the mod. However to do that there are problems that first need to be addressed.

 

The Problems

 

As ERI gives advantages to the F-15C in Flaming Cliffs 2 there are those that oppose for having it allowed in pvp missions. And as almost all if not all of the servers that do not support ERI run pvp missions that means it is, currently, not allowed on any of them.

 

Another problem is the nature of integrity check of Flaming Cliffs 2. As probably most of you already know, at the moment, in the attempt to prevent cheating, those servers check various files before allowing one to join them. A mod such as ERI requires that one of the file that currently is set to be checked by those servers to be modified and ERI itself has to be checked as well to try to prevent cheating. So for ERI to be allowed there, because of the way the integrity check works, either everyone download and install ERI or download and install a download pack that has ERI in it that the different squadrons that run those servers provide before being allowed to join their respective servers. And as you can probably understand getting everyone to download and install something before they can join a server is not easy. As a consequence any server that once was popular can become less popular, if not worse, as people may simply move on to other servers that run unmodified Flaming Cliffs 2 when they can't join one that is running with any mods.

 

Possible Solution

 

With those problems in mind, after talking to various people one possible solution that I proposed is to have those that support the ERI being allowed to be used on those servers to show that they do so and for the community to discuss and try to come to an agreement as to what should be included in it for such purpose. I thought that if all or at least a significant majority of the community supports it and can agree as to what should be included then I can start modifying the ERI (with Yoda's permission) based on the result of the discussion. And once all of that is done then hopefully after seeing the (hopefully) overwhelming support the community has for ERI and how the modified version is more palatable to everyone then most if not all of the squadrons would allow it to be used on their respective servers . Either by requiring everyone that want to join to download and install ERI or the download pack that has ERI in it that they provide.

 

What To Do

 

So after reading the above what can you do? You can make a vote to show your support (or non support) and if you want you can then start discussing what feature should be included in ERI if you have something constructive to say and have the time to do so. But keep in mind though that if you do participate in the discussion you keep your discussion in a civil manner as I and I'm sure others as well don't want all this to come to a halt because the thread has been closed because of uncivil argument.

 

Leavu

 

What about Leavu you may ask? Well considering the obstacles that we already face in order to bring the ERI to those servers I thought that it is wise that we should only talk about the ERI for now.

 

And why not Leavu first? The reason is because after I looked at both the Leavu and ERI codes I found that it is easier and thus faster for me to modify the ERI than for me to modify Leavu.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Bvoiash

[Boberro]

:)

[Bvoiash]

Sorry about that :) :doh:. Will get it done as soon as I can. Have to make sure I explain things clearly :).

 

edit: Done. Sorry it took a while as I had other things to do as well and I also had to ask Yoda's permission first.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Bvoiash

[Bvoiash]

ERI 2.1 features, that I can think of at the moment, that need to be discussed (not in any order):

• STT lock to TWS bug
  
• Long Range Boresight mode
  
• Snap TDC to TWS target
  
• Cycle PDT between TWS targets
  
• Keep radar antenna azimuth angle and/or elevation angle on target(s) and/or on TDC
  

 

More detailed ERI 2.1 features along with explanations here.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Bvoiash

[PoleCat]

The 104th supports this idea and Yodas work and we would be one of the first squads likely to get on board.

 

Out

[m0jo]

Also this could solve the problem of the majority of pitbuilders if some export functions could be used. I have created a export.lua script some times ago to solve this: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=55650. I could modifiy this script to include ERI depending of the variable "NotAllowed" inside the script.

[Vecko]

Is ERI somethin like automatic adjusting of radar antena elevation in combination with TWS?

Dont you guys think that F-15 is powerfull enough allready so you need automatisation with radar? I respect Yoda's work very much,what so ever , i'm crying for certain LRM features( like " dead is dead"), but with this "politics" , online events will become FvsF only...

Edited August 6, 2010 by Vecko

[Bvoiash]

Something like that. And more. If you have Flaming Cliffs 2 you should give it a try. That way you'll know what ERI is.

 

i'm crying for certain LRM features( like " dead is dead"), but with this "politics" , online events will become FvsF only...

 

What does LRM and FvsF stand for by the way? Sorry not familiar with those terms.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Bvoiash

[Bvoiash]

The 104th supports this idea and Yodas work and we would be one of the first squads likely to get on board.

 

Out

 

Hi PoleCat, it would be great if all of the people in the 104th that can vote in this forum be asked to do so. Just so that it is apparent to everyone who view this thread of the numbers that support it and those who don't. The same goes for the other squadrons as well of course.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Bvoiash

[GGTharos]

Don't you think the F-15C should have the most realistic representation that can be achieved? The Antenna Elevation/AZ tracking is nothing but the most basic of radar ergonomics introduced with the F-15C ... if you want to see powerful, try the rest of the features it should have, and we could stick to the radar alone even - never mind TEWS integration and MPCD functionality.

 

Is ERI somethin like automatic adjusting of radar antena elevation in combination with TWS?

Dont you guys think that F-15 is powerfull enough allready so you need automatisation with radar?

[Sov13t]

Not this again. :huh:

 

War of the Worlds take 3. Action!

 

Fanbois gather up.

[Vecko]

This stuff is more for CRT...

Anyone who does not like something in new FC2.0 can always make post in "wish list " thread and hope for the best in next patch...Until then, we trust ED team and play hard , play fair,play default! :)

[RIPTIDE]

Is ERI somethin like automatic adjusting of radar antena elevation in combination with TWS?

Dont you guys think that F-15 is powerfull enough allready so you need automatisation with radar? I respect Yoda's work very much,what so ever , i'm crying for certain LRM features( like " dead is dead"), but with this "politics" , online events will become FvsF only...

What politics?

 

 

Anyways, I for one support the ERI if it can be implemented securely.

[RIPTIDE]

Not this again. :huh:

 

War of the Worlds take 3. Action!

 

Fanbois gather up.

:megalol:

[Grimes]

If I recall

 

+Most players accepted ERI as a fair modification (I dont say majority but that seemed like the consensus)

 

+Opinion were heavily and vocally divided on LEAVU

 

+ Due to understandable but still questionable changes made in FC2.0 the server can't "force" a specific file to be used by automatically downloading said file. Thus in order for players to join a server checking LEAVU and/or ERI they must have the exact files. Otherwise they are prevented from joining an received the vague "Integrity Check Failed" error message.

 

Thus the main problem was the change made to FC2 and the compromise many server admins agreed upon to keep joining a multiplayer server as simple as possible while attempting to keep everyone on a level playing field in terms of game changing mods. I say questionable changes because many fans were expecting and hoping for "Black Shark 1.5" additions to the mission editor and multiplayer interface, instead we got something that is basically identical to what Black Shark had for well over a year prior. But thats a whole different complaint -_-

 

Perhaps its time to change the viewpoint to have more export.lua edited mods be acceptable on some servers. I suppose that is the real question that should be asked.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Grimes

[104th_Crunch]

I am sure ED would have included ERI functions into the F-15 if time allowed it. Heck they would have made DCS:F-15 and DCS:MiG-29 if time allowed it. It does not throw balance off for PvP really, it more fixes something that is unrealistic in the F-15. If TWS in the MiG-29 is realistic and someone came out with a mod that did that, I would support it.

 

I don't like the idea that since ED did not include it, it should not be there. Realism is what we all want and until DCS:Fighter is out, we have to make do with our beloved FC2. Don't expect a patch anytime soon I think.

 

 

 

 

ERI 2.1 features, that I can think of at the moment, that need to be discussed (not in any order):

• STT lock to TWS bug
  
• Long Range Boresight mode
  
• Snap TDC to TWS target
  
• Cycle PDT between TWS targets
  
• Keep radar antenna azimuth angle and/or elevation angle on target(s) and/or on TDC
  

 

Cool features. I believe long range bore scan is already in ERI.

 

 

Also this could solve the problem of the majority of pitbuilders if some export functions could be used. I have created a export.lua script some times ago to solve this: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=55650. I could modifiy this script to include ERI depending of the variable "NotAllowed" inside the script.

 

 

What ever would be included, you have to file check export.lua and any mods that it allows. That means for example, including mods that give external instruments in a mandatory download pack. Possible but must be agreed upon. Starting with just ERI makes it easier.

 

Good suggestion of Bvoiash to not include LEAVU right now, since there is datalink etc. in LEAVU that in my opinion, does effect game balance too much, especially in a mission with no Russian AWACS. Again, starting with just ERI makes it easier

 

 

For the 104th server to allow ERI we would have to create a mandatory download that all players must install before joining the server. I hope the majority of other servers would do the same. I have brought this up in the FC Commanders Round Table forum, but it didn't go anywhere.

[104th_Crunch]

What is in ERI by Yoda for the F-15? I think you'll agree it hardly effects PvP balance.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=53464&highlight=eri

 

ERI features and user's guide

 

Eri really has nothing to do with LEAVU. ERI is simply a set of radar

automizations/enhancements that are created through the game's lua exportinput

interface. The main ERI features are as follows:

 

1. Automated radar elevation on designted target(s)

2. Automated radar azimuth on cursor and/or designated target(s)

3. Automated radar cursor following designated target closest to cursor

4. Ability to go from STT lock state to TWS bug state

5. Long range bore sight functionality

6. Limited target step capability

 

Features 1-4 should feel natural to most players, especially those who have

played any Falcon4 game. Simply put they add some very basic radar

functionality.

 

1. Simply makes the radar elevation automatically follow your

target(s). You can manually move around your radar a bit, but the

more targets you designate, the stricter the automatic control will be.

WARNING: Analogue axis input for radar elevation can break autoelevation

and momentarily disrupt your radar's TWS bug! It is

recommended that you use only discrete radar elevation control with

ERI or simply don't touch the elevation rotator while you have a

target designated.

 

2. Like feature (1), in the real jet you do not use a separate axis to

control the current horizontal radar scan center. It is dependent on

what targets you have designated and where your cursor is. My

implementation is the following:

- The horizontal radar angle will follow the radar cursor when no

targets are designated

- The horizontal radar angle will take the average of the cursor and

the target when one target is designated (however it will never go too

far away from the target so the lock is lost)

- The horizontal radar angle will try to include as many as possible

if multiple targets are designated. Priority is given to those with

higher bug priority.

 

3. When you designate a target with ERI, the cursor will automatically

follow that designated target if you move the cursor close enough to

it. You can move it away from teh target at any time to stop it from

automatically following. In STT the cursor always follows the target.

 

4. If you start scanning in TWS, then bug a target in TWS and move to

an STT lock, you can use backspace (default game unlock button) to

move back to a TWS bug state, instead of losing your lock entirely.

 

5. Emulated Long-Range-Boresight (LBST) mode (default key

numpad1). 40 nm max range, the radar will automatically try to lock

onto any contact that flies close enough to the center of your radar

scan. Radar scan in this mode will follow the direction and pitch of

your aircraft nose. The LBST mode will not lock ECM strobes.

 

6. Using the (default key numpad0) step key, you can have the radar

cursor automatically move/snap to the ”next” contact on the radar

screen. However it takes a few seconds for the radar to build the

necessary track file memory – After you have detected a target it

takes about 3-4 seconds before you can use the step button to

actually step to it. Stepping can also be unreliable, but at best should

step to contacts detected in closest-first order. Intended random steps

may occur :). Each step takes about 0.5 seconds. It is not possible to

step to ECM contacts.

[104th_Crunch]

Sorry A.S, but I do not understand your last post at all. I do understand your previous post though.

[Moa]

Perhaps I missed your point A.S., but it is worth noting that ERI has no information about the target apart from what your aircraft has *already* determined by radar (that is, it's bearing, elevation, distance, ECM state etc). Aircraft unknown to your radar/EOS are completely unknown to ERI.

 

ERI gives you no information that you didn't already have. In your example you state that it could be used to give warnings when the target fired an ET, lost lock on you, or locked you in EOS. This is incorrect. This is something the scripts that support ERI cannot do unless the server permits global exports - yet no one who supports ERI is asking for global exports to be turned on (they are not needed for ERI operation).

 

ERI does not need global exports to operate as it uses data from your own aircraft only (including known radar contacts). What ERI supporters are asking for is to have ERI pass the server's Integrity Check (allowing only data exports for your own aircraft).

 

The only thing ERI could be used to do is deduce range from signal strength for the F-15 (which the RWR already does), which is something the Russian aircraft can already do with the Berezoya, so there is no game imbalance there - merely making things more realistic.

 

I would like ERI data exports enabled so I can publish my Angle-of-Attack control for the VNAO F/A-18F mod as it requires flight data from your own aircraft.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Moa

[MoGas]

Voted YES, bring it up.

[Bvoiash]

Thanks Crunch for posting the more detailed features of the current ERI along with their explanations. I might edit the summary of ERI features that I have posted on the first page.

[104th_Money]

If its realistic and can be implemented, it should be. As member of the 104th, I vote yes.

[Insanatrix]

I fly on the 104th and I would love to see ERI be used. It seems to me that all it does is add realistic functionality to the F-15. Nothing really gained in terms of advantage as much as a little bit of a lightened workload.

 

*edit* To clarify you don't complain because someone has TrackIR and someone doesn't. You tell them to go buy TrackIR. Why is this any different?

Edited August 6, 2010 by Insanatrix

[Presing]

...

 

ERI does not need global exports to operate as it uses data from your own aircraft only (including known radar contacts). What ERI supporters are asking for is to have ERI pass the server's Integrity Check (allowing only data exports for your own aircraft).

 

...

 

So if I am get this right, when you use this you can also use the Virtual Panel mod, G-15 keyboard mod..., right?

[Moa]

I believe yes, Presing (I know LEAVU2 well enough but not Virtual Panel).