DCS A-10C / Air to Air discussion

[degoe]

yes, good idea. Why didn't i think of that before. Will try immeadiately.

[LMoS]

I would agree the A-10 is vulnerable when engaged at BVR but once they merge they're quite formidable. Dogfights are generally fought at low airspeeds "around 300-400knots" which is the A-10's playground. With such broad straight wings they have excellent corner speed so it would not be something I'd want get into a Lufbery Circle with... But yeah I wouldnt recommend pecking a fight when you only have one or two missles.

Edited July 3, 2013 by LMoS

[LMoS]

I would agree the A-10 is vulnerable when engaged at BVR but once they merge they're quite formidable. Dogfights are generally fought at low airspeeds "around 300-400knots" which is the A-10's playground. With such broad straight wings they have excellent corner speed and would not something I'd want get into a Lufbery or Scissor with... But yeah I wouldnt recommend pecking a fight when you only two AA missles.

[311Gryphon]

From page 388 of the flight manual

 

"Air-to-Air HUD

For air-to-air combat in the A-10C you can employ both the 30 mm cannon and the AIM-9M Sidewinder air-to-air missile with unique HUD symbology. Unlike NAV, GUNS, CCIP and CCRP which you access by cycling the Master Mode Button, you hold down the Master Mode Button to bring up the air-to-air HUD. The two primary, unique components of the air-to-air HUD include the gun funnel and the AIM-9 seeker reticle."

 

I'm just a hobbyist but I do think the gun was intended as it is used most...as an air to ground weapon for CAS; however, it can certainly be used for Air to Air and it seems they tried to build the systems to achieve that if necessary.

[SUBS17]

That's the thing I like about the A-10C is that its just press and hold that button and you're ready for A/A straight away.:thumbup:

[RPY Variable]

I took down a su-33 yesterday on an online mission. Saw the missile launch light, found him and the missile at my 3.. active countermeasures, evade the first missile.. master mode long, got him lock with my aim-9, he evade the first with flares but couldn´t with my second aim-9.. but another missile was on the air, so he got me to after he died.

 

Epic.. all in about 2 sec. But it got me thinking about how I underestimated the RWR

Edited July 7, 2013 by mikel.132

[ENO]

It is tough to balance some of the FC3 aircraft with opponent fighters- either AI or human... I've found I have to make sure there is a certain number of friendly fighters in the air first before I allow the enemy fighters to spawn. Unfortunately, we're still not getting a lot of F-15s in the server at this point so the opposing aircraft don't come out too often.

 

I've also tried to handicap slightly by only allowing shorter range IR missiles which helps increase the benefit of "checking six" often as well as restricting fighters from engaging hapless choppers and A-10s at standoff ranges.

 

I've been in a few skirmishes A2A in the past- mostly in adversarial missions geared towards the A-10 taking on that role (against OTHER A-10s or Su-25s) and to be honest the aircraft has a LOT of maneuvering potential when it is clean and at around half a tank of fuel.

 

But the A-10 versus chopper thing... or similar style A2A kills in adversarial encounters- if the KA-50 has his hands full with ground threats I'm more likely to leave him alone. If I see him plucking away targets at will, I'm going to go give him something to think about without necessarily shooting him down- We both have missions to accomplish- but at a certain level I DO want him to achieve his objective... I just don't want him to stroll in, ripple off a bunch of ordinance, hit the snooze button and repeat as necessary until mission complete. That's not fun for me, and it's not fun for him...

 

But a little chin music with the gun across his nose or some flares on his canopy while beating a (somewhat) hasty retreat- then watch as he toodles off to hide between buildings and going tactical... then the challenge of trying to FIND him again on the next pass...

 

Yes- that's more like it!

[LMoS]

I know that if they could somehow fit a radar in nose, maybe not so powerful but enough to at least give them a chance at beyond visual range. AND hack give it a single 120 AMRAAM along a choice of AIM9 or AIM7 each, so they are not so dependent on heat guidance only. Either way I think a single AMRAAM would make a world of a difference. Or even cooler would be a HARM so they could exploit the enemies love leaving their radar on.

Edited August 8, 2013 by LMoS

[LMoS]

The only reason they suck at choppers is because they fly so low and being limited to IR missiles, they are easily confused from surface heat and go hayfire. A sparrow missile I assume would be far more effective. Or maybe some new 30mm HE rounds with proximity fuses to act as small flak. I always find it rather frustrating trying to get a tone on a enemy chopper because they are so small and the hard to see without any for of radar. A-10's NEED a lil radar

[ralfidude]

I love flying high, spotting a KA-50 and locking him up with my TGP, then LASER ON.

 

 

Watch them freak out.

[Hamblue]

Sometimes it helps to just shoot a blind Aim-9 towards Fighters to keep him busy while you hit the dirt.

[GGTharos]

You can stop sucking at air to air, and learn how to evade them. That's what you should do, because frankly, you will experience the exact same thing whether you're fighting 'noobs' in FC3 planes, or A-10C level fighters, or vets in either of those.

 

;)

 

Pretty irritating to have to start up, fly 10 minutes and get shot by a noob 4 times in a row.

Also these guys see you from miles out and you can barely get a visual since all planes are tiny dots.

 

That was my rant... What can we do about this problem?

[GGTharos]

Yes, and given that the launch is hard to see, you might even bag one and distract his friend.

 

And you posted previously that it's pretty hard to get air cover on public servers, and of course you are correct: People have other priorities usually.

 

Sometimes it helps to just shoot a blind Aim-9 towards Fighters to keep him busy while you hit the dirt.

[Hellfire257]

The A-10 is a viable AA platform provided you're quick enough and can get into a knife fight. You've got to bag them within the first turn before they can scoot away.

[PFunk1606688187]

If I recall correctly cold war A-10 tactics had them flying 100-300 feet above the dirt because they assumed that the biggest threat would be Soviet jets flying overhead. Since Desert Storm the primary threat is what lurks below in IR SAM and AAA range.

 

Perhaps trying to fly the A-10 like this is a COIN environment is naturally failing as it should for some people?

[GGTharos]

They had them flying low because the Russian SAM setups combined with fighters were quite formidable, and in those times SAMs and some fighters had trouble dealing with low flying aircraft.

 

MANPADS existed back then also, but they had a worse reaction time than they do today.

 

It's all about what the bigger threat is.

 

COIN isn't what's flown on most servers - not when there are enemy fighters around, and they WILL push you to the ground.

[PFunk1606688187]

It's all about what the bigger threat is.

 

COIN isn't what's flown on most servers - not when there are enemy fighters around, and they WILL push you to the ground.

 

Thats really the point that people miss I think, in any form of "realism" gaming frankly.

 

Tactics aren't created in a vacuum, they're reactive to the threat and the environment.

 

I think this bit from A-10s over Kosovo says it perfectly:

 

During Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm, A-10

squadrons developed tactics for medium altitude and night

employment in response to post–Cold War changes in threats,

targets, and geography specific to the Southwest Asian theater

and its particular circumstances. Since then, the emphasis in

A-10 tasking and tactics development has continued to

steadily move from only daytime, low-altitude missions to-wards daytime and nighttime, medium-altitude missions.