Fun with iZ3D Anaglyphic Stereo + TrackIR + TouchScreen

[ChromeWasp]

hi

 

I installed the (free) iZ3D Anaglyphic DirectX driver

and combined it with Red/Cyan glasses (off ebay $0.99), TrackIR and 19" 1280x1024 Touch Screen

 

The 3D cockpit is exceptional

 

So far the terrain, buildings and clouds are a bit flat - might need some more tweaking

 

But the fun starts when you try and press the cockpit buttons with your finger ... as they are floating in space

 

Resolution seems to make a big difference to Anaglyph at 1680x1050 it is pin sharp, not so much at 1280

 

iZ3Ds autofocus feature works really well - everything just stays in focus

 

Using nvidia control panel to boost color intensity is a good idea - to overcome the loss of light through the red/cyan filters

 

oo

[G3]

you got stung on those glasses :D

sound interesting

[Slayer]

I used to have a few pair of shutter glasses that came with various video cards for free. I can't believe Nvidia charges $200.00 for them now :/ All this nonsense about replacing your screen to a 240 mhz etc is just rediculous. Might give this a try just for the heck of it It's cheap enough :P

[Callsign.Vega]

I tried nVidia's 3d. While it was cool for the 3d cockpit effect, I found it doesn't have long lasting appeal for me.

[ChromeWasp]

I have been experimenting with anaglyph in multiple programs, even written my own HLSL anaglyph shader to prove I understand it

 

In BS + iZ3D if you set Separation to 5000% (the max) and Convergence to 0.0002 (or something) and then go flying around on freecam (no cockpit) you get incredible 3D terrain

clouds are rendered flat so they look bad

but trees and buildings are amazing // just don't get too close

 

I have been choosing stereo strength with Separation and then focus it with Convergence

 

It seems impossible to find a middle ground where both the cockpit *and* the terrain are strongly stereoscopic

 

I am doing some experiments to see if it is possible to transform the (near) cockpit geometry or rendering so it stays in focus even when separation is high

 

The added sense of depth and space makes flying feel real - just a shame you can have cockpit or terrain but not both ... put your glasses on:

 

 

Edited September 4, 2010 by ChromeWasp

[ChromeWasp]

oh yes - the iZ3D control panel is very confusing

the wizard doesn't help you get a good picture

the simple technique is:

- pick a high separation

- adjust convergence till key object is focused

the higher the separation the stronger the 3D effect

but it gets harder to keep all objects focused

many people set it to 10% separation and then say its no good

try it higher, much higher

[JasonJ]

I'll add 2c even though I don't know too much about it.

 

I tried to make my convergence on the cockpit panel. So all dials were nice and focused. This gave me the impression that the cockpit was at the same point as my screen, the interior structure of the heli were coming outside the screen and the terrain was always inside the screen like a diarama. This meant the majority of my focus was further away than the actual physical screen, meaning my eyes were very relaxed, even more so than that with a 2D screen.

 

Similar to that lower picture, the lady is on the screen, the hills are inside the screen and rabbit + ball are jumping out, only very slightly.

 

With your pic it appears the convergence point is somewhere near the horizon, and everything seems to want to come out of the screen. So it's really hard to focus on that bridge because it seems like it's very close. For me to focus on it I need to cross my eyes so hard it's like I have my finger only a few inches from my face. Normally if you put your finger inches infront of your eyes and focus on it, everthing in the background is blurry, this is natural to 3D. To focus on the bridge puts a lot of strain on my eyes like it is very close (closer than it would be) and then everything else seems blurry. Maybe I am having trouble with your example because I have a 40" screen that is only 3' from my eyes.

Edited September 4, 2010 by JasonJ

[ChromeWasp]

With your pic it appears the convergence point is somewhere near the horizon, and everything seems to want to come out of the screen. So it's really hard to focus on that bridge because it seems like it's very close

 

exactly right - that was using extreme separation to get maximum stereo depth

 

in that case the world feels huge but anything close is either hard to focus on or messed up

 

playing GTASA anaglyphic (which looks better than BS overall and runs at double the FPS and has 3D clouds but less draw distance) I realised the iZ3D autofocus is really lame - it uses a fixed separation and only varies the convergence

whereas it needs to alter separation for depth of field and convergence for focus

 

here is a good pop-out one:

 

[JasonJ]

tight

[CAT_101st]

:crazy: the room is spinning

[bfeld]

I also tested anaglyphic stereo with Black Shark and was very impressed.

 

By setting up depth and convergence for the best in-cockpit experience, I was also happy with everything outside. The surrounding is somewhat flat then, but it is enough to clearly separate other aircraft from background when flying by. It also helps to determine your height when landing.

Honestly, if I look outside my window (in real life) there is not much depth perception for things that are more then a few hundred meters away. It's much more experience. You are used to your real view. I always have the feeling that also in cinemas one tries to make a better impression by exaggerating depth -- it has to differ from what one is used to, and display limitations have to be compensated.

 

So, to cut a long story short: For me, there's no need to optimise for inside and outside depth perception.

[ChromeWasp]

So, to cut a long story short: For me, there's no need to optimise for inside and outside depth perception.

 

try using LALT + F1 view and then set separation high (anything between 500% and 2000%) then focus it with convergence - don't worry about the HUD

 

then try doing some hand flying underneath powerlines and around buildings, hiding between trees etc.

 

I bet you change your mind *-)

 

for me the precision of my flying increased 4x because there is more visual information for my brain to work with

[Achurro]

Why you don't use 3d 'polarized' ones??? They seems to be better than the obsolete red/blue.

 

(That's what I've found at Saint Google.. I don't have any idea about it)

 

Anyway.. good info! Curious at least!

 

Thanks for the info.

 

ESA_Achurro

[bfeld]

ChromeWasp: Yes, on the one hand you are right, it's really nice in the LALT+F1-view :), on the other hand, I really like the default cockpit view. Being inside this really three dimensional room where everything else outside is quite far away is immersive, too.

 

Achurro: Anaglyph can be displayed by the video driver, since it's just different colours. For polarised glasses you also need the accordant display method, i.e. additional hardware (the same applies for shutter glasses).

[ChromeWasp]

for polarizing I would need either:

- polarized lcd display (zalman, iz3d)

- projector with polarizing modulator

- twin projector with polarizing filters

and they all cost money and only perform slightly better than anaglyph

 

the lcd polarizing displays are cool but have very narrow field of view

and you can't tilt your head (linear polarizers)

 

what you shouldn't buy is the 120hz LCD + active shutter glasses

as they will mess up your eyes

 

there is also dolby 3d cinema which is probably the best technology

as it gives good color, brightness and field of view

 

ColorCode anaglyph sounds good but stereographers say the Cross Eye is the ultimate - no equipment required and fantastic colors - but I keep practising ...

[topdog]

Whether crosseye or parallel is something you can tune into depends on what control you have over your eye muscles. If separating your eyes is easiest then parallel should do it (that's the method I use) else if bringing your eyes closer together is easier then go with crosseye.

 

Oddly,both types of image can work with the same eye motion but if using the wrong one it is much harder because the depth data is actually inverted and your brain works overtime to correct it, though it is capable of doing so in the same way it compensates and fixes other differences between the vision of each of your eyes.

 

As with anaglyph mode the screen resolution is an important factor (you mentioned this earlier) but now so does the distance from the screen since it needs to be comfortable not to strain the extent of your range.

 

It is an awesome experience though, when you get use to it. I can watch freeviewing stereograph movies for over an hour no problem. As a test I would recommend the Pangea video on YouTube ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJjJeYfAwQw&feature=related ), at 720p or higher (but not fullscreen) and use the options provided to try the different modes of 3D displaying available.

 

This is not a viable option for playing games though of course, just useful to see what is capable and for movies if you don't mind a somewhat smaller screen. I actually use 150% browser magnification on Youtube's videos to hit the 'sweet spot' between how much I can bend my vision vs. distance from the screen to get the largest view whilst still comfortable.

Edited September 5, 2010 by topdog

[ChromeWasp]

I managed to see 1 second glimpse with cross eye - very good

I will check out parallel now

you can take a source stereograph and try it in different formats with StereoPhoto Maker (freeware from japan)

My desktop typically has between 20 and 60 windows so I started wondering if a stereo 3D desktop would help ...

 

 

all good except reading text ...

 

next experiment will be using fraps to record stereographic movie and upload to YouTube - haven't found a way to output side-by-side from iZ3D though

if I could do that I could use YouTube 3D

Edited September 5, 2010 by ChromeWasp
linear filtering and flash

[ChromeWasp]

This looks like the best 3D LCD technology available now:

 

http://www.hyundaiit.com/CoreServlet?cmd=goProd&prdCat1=3D_DISPLAY&prdCat2=3D_MONITOR

 

Very simple technique:

uses horizontal interlaced circular polarizing filter

so you can use RealD glasses (from cinema)

 

the downside is half vertical resolution

[sungsam]

So, using the ANAPRO Magenta/Cyan glasses the 3D experience is great, but as you probably know, the negative effect of that type of glasses is the faded red color. This makes difficult to read ABRIS red color indications, failure indication, LWR, Flare control pannel etc ... Not to mention ejection handle and extinguishing buttons looks a little annoying.

 

Does anyone has any info on how to change red colour of ABRIS indications mainly, as well as failure indications lights?

 

I understand that red buttons colour changes, refers to graphics repaint procedure.

 

Any info will be appreciated !

 

I also use ColorCode3D glasses (with iZ3D or 3DVision tricks) offering less color distortion, but my eyes seems to prefer Magenta/Cyan

Edited February 16, 2011 by sungsam

[PapaGreg]

Hello,

 

I am new on this forum (I will present myself in another post :smilewink:), and I really need your help :

 

 

I want to play DCS Black Shark with IZ3D in anaglyph mode :thumbup:

 

I am able to launch the game in this mode, but the framerate is dramatically poor, divided by two versus normal mode.

In normal mode, framerate is about 40-50 fps, and with the anaglyph mode, no more than 20 fps, and often under ! :cry:

 

I am able to use IZ3D anaglyph mode with Flight Simulator X demo (just for testing, this is nothing compared to BS :huh:) and have no problems, the framerate is in fact exactly the same in the two modes !

 

For DCS Black Shark, I don't know if this is a normal behaviour between this game particularly and IZ3D, or if I have a problem somewhere with a parameter in IZ3D (XML config files or other...), in Catalyst, or somewhere else..

 

My config is :

I3 2Ghz

3 Go RAM

ATI Radeon HD5470, 512 Go VRAM

 

I tried everything to make it work :

 

1) Disable all parameters in Catalyst (version 8.11), Vsync, Triple buffering, AA, etc., one by one

 

2) Enable/Disable all parameters in IZ3D one by one

 

3) Modify XML config files from IZ3D, by putting exactly the same xml parameters for this game than the Flight Simulator profile

 

(but anyway when I am using the default profile for Flight Simulator, it still works very well for this game, so not a problem with a IZ3D profile I think).

 

4) Lower all the parameters in the game to the min to see the difference, but no

 

5) Launch IZ3D and DCS BS in admin mode (right click on exe files)

 

 

But maybe I have forgotten something ?

 

 

So my question is :

 

For Black Shark gamers with IZ3D, is this bad framerate the normal behaviour for this game, did you notice the same thing from your side ?

 

Or maybe do you have any advices to improve IZ3D framerate in this game ?

 

 

Many thanks by advance for your help,

Greg

 

(And sorry for my bad english :huh: )

[Yskonyn]

;) Cool test!

 

I get a sick feeling and my eyes start to hurt quickly while using 3D glasses and effect on my computer. It's definately not for me, at the moment.

[PapaGreg]

Hum, cool test maybe, but does not work very well for me :cry:

 

I know many guyz play BS with IZ3D, and don't seem to complain with fps, I hope they can help me !

Even if anaglyph glasses make my eyes bleed :smilewink: