Got back to BS and... again bored...

[AnkH_82]

Hi Folks,

 

I really wonder, how you could continue playing this game, going through the missions etc. For quiet a while I stopped playing BS, because I did not find myself the time to get used to the complexity of this bird. Now, the past 2 Weeks I did. But I am again disappointed. As soon as you manage to get this thing flying properly, as soon as you manage to fire some vikhrs, at least I get instantly annoyed by the fact, that air defenses etc. keeps firing through buildings and trees. I know, that this was discussed here before and this is due to the engine, but for the second time since I bought this, besides this fact lovely sim, this fact completely ruins the sensation of a chopper sim. Is there REALLY only the possibility of having terrain cover? And as soon as there is just flat land, you're lost because of NO cover at all? Please, if you have any helpful advice how to evade at least some of the AA guns, let me know, I really WOULD like to continue flying, but it simply sucks if you fly a mission for the third/fourth time and again being shot through trees or buildings, because I was not able to SEE this AA whatever, but of course it was seeing me...

 

regards

Chris

[WildBillKelsoe]

wow. buggy from day one. hmmmmm.... I cant help u mate, I was thinking about buying it. Now I might want to reconsider...

[STP Dragon]

The big advantage of the Ka-50 /Vikhr is the huge range of up to 10Km.

The popular AAs like Roland, Linebacker, Avenger, Strela, Tunguska etc. can't reach this range.

If you was shot down by AA and tryed to find cover behind a hill, you are far to close to the enemy!

 

If there is no heavy SAM like HAWK, Patriot, Buk etc...

Stay out of the hot zone and get altetude.

Rise at about 500-1000m over ground so you can see the whole target area.

Switch your weapon-mode to MANUAL, find the enemys with the Shkval and kill them at about ~10Km.

 

 

If there is a heavy SAM like HAWK etc...

It is not the business of the Ka-50 to take out this SAM-side.

If it is your job to take out such a heavy SAM you have to fly lower than 50m over ground. If you are lower than 50m the SAM can't track you. You don't need cover.

Edited September 6, 2010 by =STP= Dragon

[AnkH_82]

Thanks, but this still does not help. The problem persists even if I take extra care of not getting to close and "clean" the area... Still have the problem, that even with searching the area with the Shkval does never reveal ALL hidden SAMs, and as mentioned, if there IS one hidden behind trees/buildings, I AM NOT ABLE to see them, but THE SAM still sees me and worse, fire at me through the trees.

[STP Dragon]

Yes, I know and understand your problem.

 

What mission do you speak about?

It is very difficult to designe a mission. If you place SAMs in forests or tree lines it is very realistic. But it is not possible to find the enemys with the technology of our Ka-50 version.

The Ka-50 in our Game is castrated without radar and is not able to handle with enemys placed in realistic positions.

 

That's why I place the enemys in clear terrain in my missions.

This is not realistic but the game makes fun that way.

 

Maybe you should try an other mission. :)

[rapid]

Thanks, but this still does not help. The problem persists even if I take extra care of not getting to close and "clean" the area... Still have the problem, that even with searching the area with the Shkval does never reveal ALL hidden SAMs, and as mentioned, if there IS one hidden behind trees/buildings, I AM NOT ABLE to see them, but THE SAM still sees me and worse, fire at me through the trees.

 

 

You could try turning the realism down a bit and have the system high light the enemy by making them blue so you always see them and know where they are.:pilotfly:

[PhoenixBvo]

I never noticed that buildings don't give cover. In fact, I use buildings quite a lot and very successfully for cover. The line of sight (LOS) problem is really limited to trees.

One tip: set terrain detail (if that's what its called) not to the highest setting. The high setting increases the number of trees dramatically and makes things unnecessarily hard.

The only situation that I encounter where I find the tree LOS problematic is with tree covered hill ridge lines. When you want to pop up from behind the hill, you're exposing yourself too early as you can't see anything yourself yet. In such cases I find myself forced to find an observation point with a bare hillside.

Finding targets is difficult, but realistic as long as the mission builders didn't put them inside a forest. This is actually almost never the case. That aside, I find cities to be the hardest terrain to locate targets in. But IMO realistic as AA DOES NOT shoot through buildings.

[Steel Jaw]

I agree about the frustration. Without a radar and FLIR the Ka50 is just another target out there. It is a superior and modern simulation of an inferior and outdated attack helo.

[zdXu]

The line of sight (LOS) problem is really limited to trees.

 

Nonsense. Have a look at the trackfiles in .../heli vs heli and heli vs jet/... http://www.2shared.com/file/XWzVl38Y/Pirke_BS_test_track.html

[PhoenixBvo]

I can't download from that server. Its only giving me ads :(... Very curious though.

[zdXu]

I can't download from that server. Its only giving me ads :(... Very curious though.

There is a track where an AI in an A10 tracks you through a massive 20-floor high city-building.

Buildings don't block radar.

[PhoenixBvo]

And the A10 doesn't HAVE radar! ;) So what is it doing? Shooting through the building? And not hitting the building, but the player a/c? :huh:

 

Do you have a "proper" (:P) link to such a trackfile?

 

EDIT: Ok, sorry the link you supplied earlier did work, just not at work. My company blocked it.

Edited September 6, 2010 by PhoenixBvo

[EvilBivol-1]

Outside of some kind of individual bug, structures and hills are "solid" and provide cover. Only trees do not.

[PhoenixBvo]

There is a track where an AI in an A10 tracks you through a massive 20-floor high city-building.

Buildings don't block radar.

 

OK, have seen what you mean. It "sees" the player through the building, fires, but the sim correctly lets the shells impact the building and not the player.

 

So the problem is oversimplified (read stupid) AI, but you can still effectively take cover behind a building. You just can't hide.

[zdXu]

You just can't hide (behind buildings).

 

I don't know if the word "just" is appropriate here...

[Kula66]

I totally agree with the initial poster: it is a great SIM, but watching ATGMs and SAMs track through woods is just silly. Tactically, the AI is just too dumb to be interesting - you can only plink so many tanks before it gets boring ... which is such a shame since the flight part is great!

 

Roll on the DCS:FastJets so we can get back to shooting at real people!

Edited September 7, 2010 by Kula66

[Madman777]

What helped me overcome this issue was I designed a quick mission with a crap load of SAM's and flew near them, around them, over them, just to get used to seeing the smoke trails and also practice evading. Change the options to make yourself invulnerable.

 

It still won't help you with that SAM hiding behind the tree, but at least you can be a little better reacting to it.

 

Hope that helps.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Also, you should never fly alone. You have to have a wingmen who has a different view aspect angle so as to be able to spot SAM's if you are not able to do so (due to smoke trail aspect angle).

[Slayer]

Try some online flying with real people. Most mission designers don't load up the forrest with AA and manpads units unless they are feeling really evil. =STP=Dragons missions are really good for online play also.

[Succellus]

Since no tanks, car , manpad will br put into forest, why not make around the forest a solid thin invisible wall...

ummm because something downed would crash into it instead of the ground

And both side wouls fore missile into the wall thinking its free.

 

I really hope DX11 solve this

[Tracer2k]

Since no tanks, car , manpad will br put into forest, why not make around the forest a solid thin invisible wall...

ummm because something downed would crash into it instead of the ground

And both side wouls fore missile into the wall thinking its free.

 

I really hope DX11 solve this

 

But in DCS:W it isn't really that big of a problem anymore because you aren't hiding behind a treeline with your a-10 :) or if you are, you are doing it wrong ;)

[Sticky]

It can still be a problem, a big problem even, what if the enemy SAM hides behind trees? You cant see him on your targeting pod because of the trees but he can still track/shoot you.

[diveplane]

I agree about the frustration. Without a radar and FLIR the Ka50 is just another target out there. It is a superior and modern simulation of an inferior and outdated attack helo.

 

one of the main reasons the kamov company created the ka52. 2 heads are better than one and its outfitted with FLIR and a RWR .

[power5]

Wouldnt it be fairly easy to integrate the flir and rwr to the ka50? I mean they are very similar machines except the second seat, arent they?

[Tracer2k]

It can still be a problem, a big problem even, what if the enemy SAM hides behind trees? You cant see him on your targeting pod because of the trees but he can still track/shoot you.

 

yes, that is true, but with FLIR you can see the smallest part of the vehicle poking out behind the tree. you are very unlucky if the vehicle is completely covered behind it, if you know what i mean :)