Whippler Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 now I got Saitek cyborg X stick, hapens to be piece of crap, going to get TM hog or the x65f HOTAS, what should i get, going to mainly play DCS A-10C, also some blackshark. Got also IL-2. Both the x65 and Hog sticks are pretty much the same on button layouts, except the Release button is in different place, the only meaning difference is the Force sensing on the saitek stick, i am quite thrilled about it, it's "hightech" and seems amazing and i would like to own one. Saitek throttle also looks cool and i like it, but i have read it's quite stiff, but can be made more slidier. the trhottle levers got lots of buttons (more than the Hog throttle, on actual levers). Hog off->idle systems might be great and feel real realistic and i would like that but the actual levelers don't look that nice (maybe i should see it live). On the thorttle base we got the hole section of a-10c buttons but they can be clicked on cockpit also so they are not that important (i am not going to build pit) This is pretty much Force sens. VS. moving stick and ion my opinion also sleek and nice lookin throttle VS. off->idle system. i have been wondering what to get, don't know the Hog hotas price here yet (Finland), but the x65 is for 380€. -Whipe
Yskonyn Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 The Hog will be slightly more expensive. I think you have given all the answers yourself already. It's a choice only you can make. Maybe it's best to wait for reviews about the Warthog first, before making your choice. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Asus Z390-E, 32GB Crucial Ballistix 2400Mhz, Intel i7 9700K 5.0Ghz, Asus GTX1080 8GB, SoundBlaster AE-5, G15, Streamdeck, DSD Flight, TM Warthog, VirPil BRD, MFG Crosswind CAM5, TrackIR 5, KW-908 Jetseat, Win 10 64-bit ”Pilots do not get paid for what they do daily, but they get paid for what they are capable of doing. However, if pilots would need to do daily what they are capable of doing, nobody would dare to fly anymore.”
Whippler Posted October 13, 2010 Author Posted October 13, 2010 The Hog will be slightly more expensive. I think you have given all the answers yourself already. It's a choice only you can make. Maybe it's best to wait for reviews about the Warthog first, before making your choice. yeah, time will show.
leafer Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 If I were you, I'd wait for customer reviews then see if I can try them out at a store. But then again, if I had the money I'd already have bought the Saitek and had preordered the TM Warthog. :D ED have been taking my money since 1995. :P
Succellus Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 If you think overall, FF stick will also be usefull for SOW if you re into WW2 flying, and Black shark. On the other hand even not building pit buttons are wayy faster than clickable virtual ones. And i don t know about others experience but FF stick wear off much faster than non FF sticks due to the mechanics off FF. But i may be wrong, my last FF was a CH FX stick, then i jumped on the cougar. HaF 922, Asus rampage extreme 3 gene, I7 950 with Noctua D14, MSI gtx 460 hawk, G skill 1600 8gb, 1.5 giga samsung HD. Track IR 5, Hall sensed Cougar, Hall sensed TM RCS TM Warthog(2283), TM MFD, Saitek pro combat rudder, Cougar MFD.
sobek Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 I And i don t know about others experience but FF stick wear off much faster than non FF sticks due to the mechanics off FF. But i may be wrong, my last FF was a CH FX stick, then i jumped on the cougar. Force Sensing m8, not Force Feedback ;) Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
Yskonyn Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Force Sensing m8, not Force Feedback ;) In that the stick itself hardly moves, but senses the force you put against it while pushing or pulling. It translates that force into movement input. :joystick: :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Asus Z390-E, 32GB Crucial Ballistix 2400Mhz, Intel i7 9700K 5.0Ghz, Asus GTX1080 8GB, SoundBlaster AE-5, G15, Streamdeck, DSD Flight, TM Warthog, VirPil BRD, MFG Crosswind CAM5, TrackIR 5, KW-908 Jetseat, Win 10 64-bit ”Pilots do not get paid for what they do daily, but they get paid for what they are capable of doing. However, if pilots would need to do daily what they are capable of doing, nobody would dare to fly anymore.”
Succellus Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 HO, FBW simulation. well no WW2 neither A10 is FBW. So i guess my post is off point. I wonder how really cool sense force is for sim. Really... Since all are same price i would go TM, since FF is out of the picture. FS make no sense at all for 95 % of existing sims. HaF 922, Asus rampage extreme 3 gene, I7 950 with Noctua D14, MSI gtx 460 hawk, G skill 1600 8gb, 1.5 giga samsung HD. Track IR 5, Hall sensed Cougar, Hall sensed TM RCS TM Warthog(2283), TM MFD, Saitek pro combat rudder, Cougar MFD.
JG27_Arklight Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 The Warthog simulates an A-10 HOTAS arrangement. If you are going to fly DCS A-10 most of the time, that is probably the one I would get (the most realistic). With regards to DCS Blackshark, I just can't see force-sensing working very well. Force-sensing, IMO, just seems gimmicky. I am not surer how much use it really is in current sims. Last but not least, I can't stand Saitek. I have never had a good product from them. No, that is not an exaggeration. Every single product I have had from Saitek either worked for a very short period of time before needing replacement, or didn't work quite right to begin with. I straight up have never had a good experience with them. A lot of folks seem to enjoy the X-52 and whatnot, I never tried that one, but all the other sticks I had from them were a waste of money. Ark ------------------ Windows 10 Pro x64 9900K @ 5ghz Gigabyte Aorus Master Z390 32GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB CAS 14 EVGA RTX 2080 Ti Ultra XC2 256gb Samsung 869 Pro (Boot Drive) 1TB - Samsung 970 EVO Plus Seasoninc 1000w Titanium Ultra PSU 34" ASUS PG348
Whippler Posted October 14, 2010 Author Posted October 14, 2010 (edited) got the price for the Hog, 369,90€, and x65f is 387,90€. i don't have rudders and the hog is missing twist rudder. The price for hog tells me to buy it(assumed it would be 400+€). Need to think some more. is there any other way (that works) to control rudder? -Whipe Edited October 14, 2010 by Whippler
PhoenixBvo Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 got the price for the Hog, 369,90€, and x65f is 387,90€. i don't have rudders and the hog is missing twist rudder. The price for hog tells me to buy it(assumed it would be 400+€). Need to think some more. is there any other way (that works) to control rudder? Get rudder pedals!!!;) No seriously, there is no real substitute. And where have you found that price (369,90€) for the Hog? I only found 399€ here in Germany. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] CPU i7 4970k @ 4.7 GHz RAM 16GB G.Skill TridentX 1600 ATX ASUS Z97-PRO DSU Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SSD for Win10, Plextor M6e 128GB SSD for DCS exclusively, RAID-1 HDDs GFX Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Xtreme Edition, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, 27" with G-Sync, Oculus Rift CV1 HID TM HOTAS Warthog + 10 cm extension, MFG Crosswind pedals, TrackIR 5, Obutto oZone My TM Warthog Profile + Chart, F-15C EM Diagram Generator
Feuerfalke Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Get rudder pedals!!!;) No seriously, there is no real substitute. And where have you found that price (369,90€) for the Hog? I only found 399€ here in Germany. http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a577830.html MSI X670E Gaming Plus | AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D | 64 GB DDR4 | AMD RX 6900 XT | LG 55" @ 4K | Cougar 1000 W | CreativeX G6 | TIR5 | CH HOTAS (with BU0836X-12 Bit) + Crosswind Pedals | Win11 64 HP | StreamDeck XL | 3x TM MFD
PhoenixBvo Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Super! Danke schön! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] CPU i7 4970k @ 4.7 GHz RAM 16GB G.Skill TridentX 1600 ATX ASUS Z97-PRO DSU Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SSD for Win10, Plextor M6e 128GB SSD for DCS exclusively, RAID-1 HDDs GFX Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Xtreme Edition, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, 27" with G-Sync, Oculus Rift CV1 HID TM HOTAS Warthog + 10 cm extension, MFG Crosswind pedals, TrackIR 5, Obutto oZone My TM Warthog Profile + Chart, F-15C EM Diagram Generator
Whippler Posted October 14, 2010 Author Posted October 14, 2010 Get rudder pedals!!!;) No seriously, there is no real substitute. And where have you found that price (369,90€) for the Hog? I only found 399€ here in Germany. Finnish computer store http://www.verkkokauppa.com
BoneDust Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 I'm going through the same debate mate. I fly both A10 and Falcon (or will whenever BMS is released) so I could buy both sticks, but that's close to a grand for sticks. I like the twist rudder on the X65F because I don't want to buy rudder peddles, however I like the Warthog stick in general. I've alway had good luck with Saitek sticks and haven't own a TM for years but the last on I have worked well. Also, I've never used a pressure stick before so not sure how that will feel. I was told they are not good for helo sims. Decisions decisions...:( Alienware New Aurora R15 | Windows® 11 Home Premium | 64bit, 13thGen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9 13900KF(24-Core, 68MB| NVIDIA(R) GeForce RTX(TM) 4090, 24GB GDDR6X | 1 X 2TB SSD, 1X 1TB SSD | 64GB, 2x32GB, DDR5, 4800MHz | 1350W PSU, Alienware Cryo-tech (TM) Edition CPU Liquid Cooling power supply | Pimax Crystal VR
MTFDarkEagle Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Seriously: get rudder pedals ;) use the pedals from you'r old steering wheel you still have lying around in the basement if you have to. Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
Callsign.Vega Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 The X65 is a nice stick for F-16. For sim's in general though, I think the Warthog Hotas is better. Virtually all fixed wing aircraft have move able sticks and all helicopters do. With the Warthog HOTAS I can hop from A-10C to WWI/WWII planes, helicopters etc without a hiccup. The X65 is really suited more for just fighter jets only like the F-16/F-22/F-35 etc. GPU: RTX 4090 - 3,000 MHz core / 12,000 MHz VRAM. CPU: 7950X3d - 5.2 GHz X3d, 5.8 GHz secondary / MB: ASUS Crosshair X670E Gene / RAM: G.Skill 48GB 6400 MHz SSD: Intel Optane P5800X - 800GB VR: Pimax Crystal CONTROLS: VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Base / VPC Constellation ALPHA Prime Grip / VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle / TM Pendular Rudders
Echonomix Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 The only thing I know of that uses force sensing is the f16. But I think the pilots hated that it didn't move, so they added a little bit of play into it. Also, friend of mine had a saitek stick, hated it. I think a lot of there stuff is designed more to catch peoples eye than to actually be used for flying, but that's just my opinion as I've never actually used their products. I do have their rudder pedals, but don't use them, lol. They may change soon though if I get the TM hog hotas. I am waiting for customer reviews for the TM hog hotas, and hoping that maybe ifixit will do a teardown to really inspect its build quality. If I'm throwing down serious $$$ on that it better be made with really good hardware :) asus p7p55d deluxe | intel i5-750 @ stock | g.skill ripjaw 4gb | asus geforce gtx 470 @ stock | trackir 4 | thrustmaster hotas warthog | win7 home premium 64bit
Whippler Posted October 15, 2010 Author Posted October 15, 2010 I'm going through the same debate mate. I fly both A10 and Falcon (or will whenever BMS is released) so I could buy both sticks, but that's close to a grand for sticks. I like the twist rudder on the X65F because I don't want to buy rudder peddles, however I like the Warthog stick in general. I've alway had good luck with Saitek sticks and haven't own a TM for years but the last on I have worked well. Also, I've never used a pressure stick before so not sure how that will feel. I was told they are not good for helo sims. Decisions decisions...:( great to hear, also the dual trigger on The Hog is great, stabilizes the cannon. altough it could be mapped on x65f just fine on one of the buttons in throttle to stabilase and the fire whit trigger, could work as good.
Ragtag Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 great to hear, also the dual trigger on The Hog is great, stabilizes the cannon. altough it could be mapped on x65f just fine on one of the buttons in throttle to stabilase and the fire whit trigger, could work as good. Doesn't X65 have a two stage trigger like the X52 Pro has? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] I7 3930K. 16Gb Corsair Vengeance 1866mhz. Asus P9X79 Deluxe. Asus GTX680 2Gb. Auzentech Home Theater 3D Sound. TM Warthog HOTAS. TM Cougar MFD's. Saitek Flight Pro pedals. TrackIR 5. Samsung Syncmaster P2770FH
Whippler Posted October 15, 2010 Author Posted October 15, 2010 Doesn't X65 have a two stage trigger like the X52 Pro has? at least Saitek product page doesn't inform about 2-stage trigger, haven't seen anybady saying it is 2 stage, i suppose it's just one stage trigger.
Succellus Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 Dual stage trigger are a must go for me. They are especially usefull for WW2 planes. Most have guns + more guns/cannon) so you set the first triger for normal shooting and the second stage for Fire all at once. Especially usefull when you know you only will have a split second to put as much lead on the ennemy as you can. For me now its a nogo feature if the joy hasn t it. HaF 922, Asus rampage extreme 3 gene, I7 950 with Noctua D14, MSI gtx 460 hawk, G skill 1600 8gb, 1.5 giga samsung HD. Track IR 5, Hall sensed Cougar, Hall sensed TM RCS TM Warthog(2283), TM MFD, Saitek pro combat rudder, Cougar MFD.
Ragtag Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) at least Saitek product page doesn't inform about 2-stage trigger, haven't seen anybady saying it is 2 stage, i suppose it's just one stage trigger. Wow, i'm surprised if this is true. That's a big step backwards imho. I'm about to buy new HOTAS for A-10... i was looking at the X65 which is available and the TM A-10 HOTAS, but the latter isn't available anywhere here unfortunatly not even pre-order. But if the X65 doesn't have a two stage trigger i'm definatly going for TM's A-10 HOTAS but i might have to wait a few months extra for it *siiigh* Edited October 15, 2010 by Ragtag [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] I7 3930K. 16Gb Corsair Vengeance 1866mhz. Asus P9X79 Deluxe. Asus GTX680 2Gb. Auzentech Home Theater 3D Sound. TM Warthog HOTAS. TM Cougar MFD's. Saitek Flight Pro pedals. TrackIR 5. Samsung Syncmaster P2770FH
audiohavoc Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 My X52 has a dual stage trigger. Core i7-6950x, 512GB memory, Nvidia RTX 8000, PCIe SSD's, Windows 10 Pro.
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