Did They Go Too Far with the C?

[Zenra]

Typical payload is 2 AGM-65 and 4x Bombs Zenra. Anything more tends to be a waste of gas :)

Fair enough, but still enough to may me think twice about crossing one's path...

[GGTharos]

For sure. With 4 GBU's on hand and 2 mavs, you're set to accurately hit 6 targets in theory. With 2 Mavs and 4 iron bombs you can hit an artillery formation and possibly disable it in just one pass.

[hassata]

Your point is basically moot.

 

Again we are talking hypothetical, alternate universe where there are no points.

 

The battlefield has become faster . . .

 

Looks good on paper, but in reality OPFOR vs. US weaponry in the latest conflicts has been either pathetic (2003 Iraq, Afghanistan) to non-exsistant (Lebanon, Gaza).

[GGTharos]

You don't build your weapons to fight just the weakest guy you're fighting.

[Gearbox]

Yeah, not much ordinance...

 

By "they" I meant the current UAVs.

[hawk2495]

You build weapons to fight the big boys, and spend the rest of the time hoping to hell you never have to use them. The A-10C is a testament to twentieth century aviation. It, like the F-16, and F-15, were designed for a battle that thankfully never happened. Now we have seen that these aircraft, with relatively simple overall modifications, can still command the battlefield in ways no aircraft have ever really been able to do before. Some call it overkill, well, that is war. The victor is the one who can deploy more firepower, more accurately, more effectively, and with fewer losses than his enemy. They don't call it Shock and Awe for nothing.

[tflash]

I just find the A-10 + litening pod + GBU-38/GBU-12 superb!!!

 

Now it really is a bird of prey, roaming in the sky and then hitting hard.

 

It truly emerges what a magnificent aerodynamic design this really is, with those wide, straight wings.

 

"Fast" jets are just to fast for this work. The A-10C is the right plane in the right place at the right time.

[mvsgas]

You can't just simply bolt new equipment to a civil aircraft wing and call it good. If they where to adapt a civilian aircraft ( which ever model ) for CAS; You would have to add weapons, radios, and other equipment. This would change wiring and power requirements. This will probably change the weight and balance. New tolerances would have to be created and tested, and on and on.

Now, new facilities have to be created to accommodate new equipment. The supply system have to be stocked with new parts. All the personnel involved would have to be trained or re trained, oh wait, now you need facilities for that as well.

 

A-10C can do what "A" can and more. All "A" models will probably be upgraded to "C" models standards anyway ( completely guessing). I do not think the A-10A was designed for attrition war, if it was, I would assume they would have built a lot more ( again guessing here) The main part are the same. Crews (Pilots and maintenance) need little additional training to maintained and fly the aircraft. Facilities are well established and supply system already have this parts.

 

In not so short answer :D; The A-10C is, in my ignorant mind, a good upgrade to the "A" and I do not believe they went to far.

Edited October 21, 2010 by mvsgas

[MainSail]

I used to fly a lot of Falcon 4 AF, and now I'm getting into DCS A-10... so far it seems to me that the avionics and systems in the A-10C are a lot more complicated, ...........

It's likely that some of that is caused by DCS modeling the systems with more fidelity, but I don't know.

 

F4AF is really missing a lot of functionality. So you can not compare the 2 IMHO. :joystick:

[hassata]

In not so short answer :D; The A-10C is, in my ignorant mind, a good upgrade to the "A" and I do not believe they went to far.

 

At the end of the day, I agree.

[Avilator]

You can't just simply bolt new equipment to a civil aircraft wing and call it good. If they where to adapt a civilian aircraft ( which ever model ) for CAS; You would have to add weapons, radios, and other equipment. This would change wiring and power requirements. This will probably change the weight and balance. New tolerances would have to be created and tested, and on and on.

Now, new facilities have to be created to accommodate new equipment. The supply system have to be stocked with new parts. All the personnel involved would have to be trained or re trained, oh wait, now you need facilities for that as well.

 

A-10C can do what "A" can and more. All "A" models will probably be upgraded to "C" models standards anyway ( completely guessing). I do not think the A-10A was designed for attrition war, if it was, I would assume they would have built a lot more ( again guessing here) The main part are the same. Crews (Pilots and maintenance) need little additional training to maintained and fly the aircraft. Facilities are well established and supply system already have this parts.

 

In not so short answer :D; The A-10C is, in my ignorant mind, a good upgrade to the "A" and I do not believe they went to far.

 

Along this same line of thinking, there would have to be massive structural changes made, probably enough to swing the balance in favor of an entirely new aircraft or a major upgrade of one in service.

[Zenra]

By "they" I meant the current UAVs.

My appologies - I inferred inaccurately based on context in the thread - should have read more carefully...

[Cali]

A-10C can do what "A" can and more. All "A" models will probably be upgraded to "C" models standards anyway ( completely guessing). I do not think the A-10A was designed for attrition war, if it was, I would assume they would have built a lot more ( again guessing here) The main part are the same. Crews (Pilots and maintenance) need little additional training to maintained and fly the aircraft. Facilities are well established and supply system already have this parts.

 

In not so short answer :D; The A-10C is, in my ignorant mind, a good upgrade to the "A" and I do not believe they went to far.

 

That is the plan to upgrade all A-10A to the "C" at least that's what they said when I was in Alaska.

[TonyP]

Another aircraft possibly more capable for CAS support is is AC 130 Gunship, it can pack a lot more than a Hog, with longer loiter time, see this vid:

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4639921789181083769#

[Krunkskimo]

you're not taking any capabilities away.

 

just adding more and improving on what it can already do to do it better.

[leafer]

This question is off topic so forgive me, people.

 

MVSGAS,

 

I read that you are an aircraft technician and was wondering if you would be so kind to take mesurements of an F15 stick for me? If not possible then could you give me a rough guess?

 

I have a Suncom F-15 stick and I want to build it to 'roughly' replicate the real thing. My guest is you're a Hog guy and might not have access to the Eagle and that's cool. I'm guessing the designers must have done research to find out where a pilot's hand would be most comfortable holding on to the stick and then all the aircraft must share this same standard length?

 

So I'm interested in the length of the shaft from the floor, angel if any, to the top where the shaft mates the bottom of the grip. Another thing is the height of the ejection seat from the floor to the top where the butt rests.

 

Hope I'm not asking too much and thanks in advance.

 

edit to add: Admin blocks most of the site so google is useless here.

Edited October 21, 2010 by leafer

[Greb]

When I was in the ARMY we were in the field taking a break. My buddy and I were sitting on the front of a Hum V and eating. We were at the base of a small hill and it was real quiet. Then out of nowhere an A10 flew right over the top of the us. Never even heard the damn thing coming. Scared the hell out of both of us....I swear I could hear the pilot laughing as he flew off. Having an A10 loitering around a combat zone gives that same shrill up your spine when you hear a shotgun shell being chambered. It's like firing a .44 Mag. The freegin sound of it enough to scare an intruder. When you look at the kill ratio and equipment destroyed by the A10...I don't see it going away anytime soon.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Greb
Public Education

[mvsgas]

http://www.f-15e.info/joomla/en/technology/cockpit/80-pilot-flight-stick

[Cali]

This question is off topic so forgive me, people.

 

MVSGAS,

 

I read that you are an aircraft technician and was wondering if you would be so kind to take mesurements of an F15 stick for me? If not possible then could you give me a rough guess?

 

I have a Suncom F-15 stick and I want to build it to 'roughly' replicate the real thing. My guest is you're a Hog guy and might not have access to the Eagle and that's cool. I'm guessing the designers must have done research to find out where a pilot's hand would be most comfortable holding on to the stick and then all the aircraft must share this same standard length?

 

So I'm interested in the length of the shaft from the floor, angel if any, to the top where the shaft mates the bottom of the grip. Another thing is the height of the ejection seat from the floor to the top where the butt rests.

 

Hope I'm not asking too much and thanks in advance.

 

edit to add: Admin blocks most of the site so google is useless here.

 

I don't know if he ever worked on F-15's but I know he works on F-16's....we are at the same base.

[Cali]

When I was in the ARMY we were in the field taking a break. My buddy and I were sitting on the front of a Hum V and eating. We were at the base of a small hill and it was real quiet. Then out of nowhere an A10 flew right over the top of the us. Never even heard the damn thing coming. Scared the hell out of both of us....I swear I could hear the pilot laughing as he flew off. Having an A10 loitering around a combat zone gives that same shrill up your spine when you hear a shotgun shell being chambered. It's like firing a .44 Mag. The freegin sound of it enough to scare an intruder. When you look at the kill ratio and equipment destroyed by the A10...I don't see it going away anytime soon.

 

That's why they call the A-10 "silent death" if it's heading straight at you, you can't hear crap until it's too late.

[leafer]

Yup. He replied and I sent rep. I would send beer or something but that wouldn't be practical. :D

[Frederf]

In an aviation-safe many-static target environment a weaponized airliner would be a fantastic idea. It's not a foolish notion at all. The USAF already uses airliners for various support roles. The current engagements don't really lend itself to this kind of thing though. Targets tend to be fleeting, distributed, and mobile. One big bucket of bombs at high altitude isn't as good in this case as several lightly armed policemen at lower altitude.

 

Back to the original point, the complexity of the C is well within the capabilities of the pilots. They live and breathe this stuff. The pilots have already done their T-38 phase by the time so they are proper jet pilots before even cracking open the A-10's manual. A year later they know it all and a year after that they are old hat with the thing.