Has anyone actually beaten the "Gauntlet" mission?

[BeachAV8R]

Holy crap. I've spent like 8 hours yesterday playing that mission. Even with CRASH RECV set to ON I think it is about impossible (I know I could have used a dozen more helos and probably chipped away at the rest of the enemy forces). My 3 wingmen were toast before I could even clear the second action point. I can't count how many times I've been shot down.

 

So is anyone here actually good enough to beat it without respawning? What a brute! If you can actually get through this mission without losing your own helicopter (send those wingman in to take one for the team!!)..I'm impressed and you are the Black Shark guru..(without labels too..lol..)

 

 

BeachAV8R

Edited October 21, 2010 by BeachAV8R

[Yurgon]

Holy crap. I've spent like 8 hours yesterday playing that mission.

 

Sounds really tough. I haven't flown it yet. But when I do, I'll post a reply and tell you how well (or badly) I've done. :-)

[ben1101]

Hi,

 

Furthest I have gotten was just past stage 2, still with all wingmen however had run out of ammo and went to the farp to try reload, cant remember if it actually reloaded for me or not (might have had trouble with the farp being unmanned??!?!) but before I could take off the next lot of air to air vehicles got me. (not spoiling what they are)

 

Im still learning good combat maneuvers so can't be of any real help to you soz.

[Yurgon]

Okay, I just tried the mission for the first time. I didn't expect to get that far due to a serious lack of flying hours in the past couple of weeks. And I was right to think that. Good old Vortex Ring took hold of me even before waypoint 1.

 

So, in the second attempt I had my wingies kill a few targets around waypoint 1. Sadly, I lost my #2 and #3 wingmen because of a midair collision. I guess they weren't paying too much attention to deconflicting in combat flight school. #4 and I killed a few more targets but I don't think we actually managed to complete the task for that waypoint.

 

A few moments later I crashed when the surface appeared to be some 50m higher than I anticipated...

 

Will give it a few more tries soon, though. :-)

[Yurgon]

A little update on my progress or, to be more precise, the lack thereof.

 

In my third attempt my wingmen and I shot a few targets around waypoint 1. We apparently missed something bad, because we started taking incoming SAMs. All my wingmen got shot down, I managed to limp back with the tail blown off.

 

Sooo, fourth attempt. Went pretty well actually. We cleared waypoint 1, engaged a few targets some klicks to the north-east and even managed to destroy some armor around waypoint two. I decided to refuel and rearm at the FARP we took off from so that we didn't have to enter unknown territory on the way to the FARP near waypoint three - we were already running low on gas and I wanted to make sure we were ready for the enemy.

 

Well. I landed and refueled and rearmed. My wingmen on the other hand kinda refused to do so. Instead, they preferred to draw circles in the air and finally test their autoroation skills when their engines starved (#3, despite flying the only battle damaged bird in our flight, was the only one to survive).

 

Is there actually a way to have your wingmen refuel and rearm at a FARP or airport? The 1.0.1 patch notes clearly indicate how to do that, but in this particular case, my wingmen didn't even land at all. I'm currently playing 1.0.2.

 

A few places I looked for an answer:

• Wingmen and FARPS
  
• DCS: Black Shark 1.0.1 Read Me
  
• Wingman refuelling / rearming @SimHQ
  
• Are these wingmen unionised?
  
• and of course google.com
  

 

Without wingmen being able to refuel and rearm, I'd say this mission is indeed extremely tough. If, on the other hand, the flight can take supplies... well, I'd really like to know what surprises waypoints 2 through 4 are going to reveal. :-)

[uTILLIty]

Gauntlet

 

hi,

 

here's my 2 cent. I love that mission and gave it alot of tries. On approach to the FARP after stage 2 I was able to land all wingmen aswell (they land, one by one, while the others fly a holding pattern). They rearm as soon as they touch ground. Using F2 you can watch them (do this when on the ground yourself ;)). I also watched the Apache's like this and noticed how they saw the farp and shot a couple of hellfires our way, which killed each machine, one by one.... hmpf - so into the mission-editor I moved the farp somewhere else and there the wingmen don't takeoff anymore, once they landed, refueled and rearmed ARGH!!!

 

this mission is so much fun, but unfortunately very tricky. I haven't found a good way (and the right ammo) to fight the apaches - does the KA50 not support A-A missiles??

[Yurgon]

here's my 2 cent. I love that mission and gave it alot of tries. On approach to the FARP after stage 2 I was able to land all wingmen aswell (they land, one by one, while the others fly a holding pattern). They rearm as soon as they touch ground.

 

I should give that a try. Last time I flew the mission I returned to the FARP at Abris waypoint 1 where my wingmen didn't land (not even after I explicitly ordered them to RTB, which they even acknowledged. Lazy bastards).

 

this mission is so much fun, but unfortunately very tricky. I haven't found a good way (and the right ammo) to fight the apaches - does the KA50 not support A-A missiles??

 

Thanks for giving that threat away. :-/

 

Anyways, AFAIK there are no sophisticated A-A munitions available for the Ka-50. One might get a good kill with a Vikhr, but I have no idea how well they do against Apaches. On the other hand, AGM-114 aren't A-A either, that evens the odds a little. But the Apache gunner and the huge area the Apache's sensors and cannon are able to cover really put the Shark at a disadvantage IMO.

 

One might try additional gun pods instead of rockets. In a A-A training mission (from Dragons trainingpack) they worked very well against UH-1 and UH-60. But I never survived attacks from the Cobras that are also available in that mission.

[Bucic]

Anyways, AFAIK there are no sophisticated A-A munitions available for the Ka-50. One might get a good kill with a Vikhr, but I have no idea how well they do against Apaches. On the other hand, AGM-114 aren't A-A either, that evens the odds a little. But the Apache gunner and the huge area the Apache's sensors and cannon are able to cover really put the Shark at a disadvantage IMO.

In Apache vs Shark case Shark is being hunted and Apache is a hunter. It would be even worse if Apache was controlled by human (multiplayer). You have 2 men against one (crew) and 80's vs 90's in terms of sensors (just a reference).

 

Basically Vikhrs are as good as AA weapon as your locking skills (using the Shkval) are. Once you have enemy locked Vikhr will do quite well. Just keep in mind that:

• - you're screwed either way because Apache can launch Hellfires in Fire and Forget mode (?)
  
• - and you don't :surrender:
  
• - configure the weapons systems for AA engagement! (hint: target type selection, there are two AA target types)
  
• - fire Vikhrs in pairs
  
• - if you can't get a lock using Shkval and you still want to live prepare for oldschool combat using fixed cannon (high rate of fire, long burst, HE ammo)
  
• - ask yourself a question: would you spare ammo if you were facing an enemy Apache and your real life flesh would be at stake? Would you wait until he's closer than 800 meters?
  

 

Oh, and two more things:

• if you're in a helo vs helo situation either you or mission creator did something wrong
  
• if you needed any of my advices here then it means that for you the only proper behavior in a helo vs helo situation is (and will be for some time) to RUN! :fear:
  

Edited October 27, 2010 by Bucic

[Yurgon]

A short update on attempts 5 and 6:

 

Fifth attempt went pretty well until I managed to Vortex Ring myself to death again while closing in on the second target area. :-/

 

In the sixth attempt I finally managed to get shot down by enemy air assets, which leads right to...

 

Basically Vikhrs are as good as AA weapon as your locking skills (using the Shkval) are. Once you have enemy locked Vikhr will do quite well.

 

I'd say the same is true for the [avoiding spoiler: some weapon], because other than my LWR going all christmas-tree on me I didn't even know where those damn [avoiding spoiler: some air asset] came from. Wiped my entire flight, and one of them still had some [avoiding spoiler: some weapon] left.

 

Just keep in mind that: [skip: Survival hints]

 

That sounds very convincing. If only I had actually seen the enemy while I was still alive... :-)

 

[*]if you're in a helo vs helo situation either you or mission creator did something wrong

 

Hahahaha, good one. I believe "Gauntlet" was supplied by ED as part of the original game. Shame on them. :-)

[Bucic]

Hahahaha, good one. I believe "Gauntlet" was supplied by ED as part of the original game. Shame on them. :-)

So obviously YOU did something wrong :D

No really, to sight an enemy helicopter may be actually realistic but to deliberately close the distance to him - not really.

 

BTW, a tip for Hellfires avoidance - violent jittering works much better than smooth brake left/right/anywhere. You can test it easily either in your own custom mission or in the supplied Shooting Range mission. Go a kilometer ahead and you'll meet at least one apache if God shall smile upon you.

[Yurgon]

So obviously YOU did something wrong :D

 

In theory that would be possible, yes.

 

Considering the unlikeliness of said assumption I do, on the other hand, prefer to blame my wingmen. :-)

 

No really, to sight an enemy helicopter may be actually realistic but to deliberately close the distance to him - not really.

 

Sure thing, I'm right there with you.

 

I'm also more or less ready to give up on "Gauntlet", but that's not so much because of enemy helos, it's mostly because I don't know how to get my wingmen to land and refuel/rearm. In my 9th attempt we almost cleared the second target area. My wingmen got rid of several enemy helos but had almost run out of Vikhrs. Back to the FARP they just wouldn't land, no matter how often I ordered them to RTB.

[dsobbe]

You can land and refuel/rearm at Senaki, just east of waypoint 2. It's a lot closer than the FARP. However, your wingmen will also land and go right to the officers club for a vodka. You'll be on your own from there.

On the way to waypoint 3 you'll have to stay low as there are many tanks and armed vehicles in the hills. I haven't gotten any farther than that without catching a missle. Gauntlet is a tough mission. But, you can learn a lot from it. Like, the effective use of multiple wingmen and ejecting.

Edited October 30, 2010 by dsobbe

[Bucic]

it's mostly because I don't know how to get my wingmen to land and refuel/rearm. In my 9th attempt we almost cleared the second target area. My wingmen got rid of several enemy helos but had almost run out of Vikhrs. Back to the FARP they just wouldn't land, no matter how often I ordered them to RTB.

 

However, your wingmen will also land and go right to the officers club for a vodka. You'll be on your own from there.

 

:book: Patch 1.0.1 readme says:

 

WINGMAN REARMING AND REFUELING

 

- When in player-following mode (not otherwise tasked), wingmen will follow the player when he lands at an airbase, aircraft carrier or FARP.

 

- If a wingman begins to follow the player to a landing, but the player takes off again before the wingman lands, the wingman will stop the landing procedure and follow the player.

 

- If a wingman has landed after the player, but the player takes off again, the wingman will follow the player.

 

- If a wingman has landed after the player and the player has shut down his engines, the wingman will also begin to shut down his engines when the player’s rotor RPM drops below 50%.

 

- If a wingman lands and shuts down his engines after the player, but the player start his engines again, the wingman will start his as well when the player’s rotor spins up.

 

- If the player refuels after landing, the wingman will also refuel to bring his fuel state to the amount assigned in the mission editor.

 

- If the player rearms after landing, the wingman will also rearm to the payload assigned in the mission editor. His cannon and countermeasures will also be refilled.

 

 

Notes:

 

- There is no way to send a wingman to rearm or refuel autonomously without the player.

 

- If the player landed, rearmed, refueled and took off before his wingman landed, the wingman will follow the player and forego the rearming and refueling.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Bucic

[Wags]

Hahahaha, good one. I believe "Gauntlet" was supplied by ED as part of the original game. Shame on them. :-)

 

:music_whistling:

[Bucic]

Yurgon,

 

Considering the mission cost Wags few sleepless nights, you're screwed! :D ;)

[Yurgon]

:book: Patch 1.0.1 readme says: [Long quote]

 

Yeah, I came across the 1.0.1 readme but it seems that doesn't help me. Still trying to figure out how to get my wingmen to land, refuel and rearm and then takeoff again. Once that mystery is solved, I'll gladly try and beat this "Gauntlet" bastard. :-)

 

Considering the mission cost Wags few sleepless nights, you're screwed! :D ;)

 

It feels like I'm slowly catching up on those countless hours Wags must have invested in this mission. So far, I've recorded 10 attempts (plus one discarded because it was mostly a rearming test run).

 

On the other hand, being stuck at Gauntlet I finally caught up on the Georgian Oil War campaign which doesn't seem as difficult as it did some weeks ago when I started it. :-)

[ben1101]

Bucic - Are you saying that IRL helo pilots don't engage each other? (I mean, relative to the KA50) Could you give more info about RL Helo vs Helo policies?

 

Any AA threat in BS really boils down to a matter of luck in detecting and targeting them in the Shvkal. and it is really luck when you are moving the shvkal with the hat on the joystick. Even then the Hinds and Apaches still have the advantage. Could really use another strategy for those engagements, as it seems to be a 50/50 outcome.

 

However Gauntlet is an awesome mission and I have made it to WP 3 with re armed wingmen, however even when hiding from the apaches during their first patrol they warm up and come back soon enough. Might be worth finding their farps and making a couple of special trips..?

[Bucic]

I came across the 1.0.1 readme but it seems that doesn't help me.

I can't help you further neither. Please post a track next time to increase your chances. Also I think you should continue the subject in the dedicated topic. I'll drop a line or two there if I have something.

 

Could you give more info about RL Helo vs Helo policies?

Of course

 

AIR TO AIR HELICOPTER COMBAT

http://www.mediafire.com/?a6c39qvv8wophsd

 

ATTACK HELICOPTER OPERATIONS

http://www.mediafire.com/?fqwovqvz09qi716

 

Keep in mind that the main RL policy IRL is to stay alive so if your A2A helo skills are piss poor your policy should be to avoid enemy helicopters regardless of what the most fancy of RL field manuals says.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Bucic

[ben1101]

Wow, that is awesome stuff right there, Bucic! Thanks!

[Bucic]

Wow, that is awesome stuff right there, Bucic! Thanks!

Both found here on ED forums.

[power5]

Not sure if I ever tried this mission. Going to have to fire BS back up and give this a shot. Can't be that difficult...

[CarneyUK]

Not sure if I ever tried this mission. Going to have to fire BS back up and give this a shot. Can't be that difficult...

 

Yes it can be that difficult...I can't even complete the Courier mission, hit a cliff once and the other time started looking for the car whilst in the hover, next thing everything shut's down and I'm on the deck.

 

I think I will leave Gauntlet till 2012 :music_whistling:

 

I am sure after I took out the 2 personel, that 2 enemy helo's flew right past us and didn't even notice??

Gauntlit First Try.trk

Edited November 8, 2010 by CarneyUK
Added track

[Yurgon]

I can't help you further neither. Please post a track next time to increase your chances. Also I think you should continue the subject in the dedicated topic. I'll drop a line or two there if I have something.

Agreed.

 

AIR TO AIR HELICOPTER COMBAT

http://www.mediafire.com/?a6c39qvv8wophsd

Wow, what a fantastic read! Not exactly what I had planned for the past two hours but well worth it.

 

Quite fascinating how some of the predictions did not come true; even 31 years later neither attack nor transport helicopters carry A2A missiles on a regular basis. But I like the idea of arming transport helos with A2A missiles so they gain a basic defense against enemy helos and fast air (the "get bitten back" factor would most certainly make the enemy think twice before engaging).

 

But where were we...? Oh, right, "Gauntlet". Just once have I ever been in a position to fire on a Hind, but that wasn't really good flying on my part. He was being chased by my wingman and ran so fast I didn't fire a single salvo.

 

My biggest problem is that I simply don't see enemy helos even when they're called out by friendlies ("One, tally bandit, one o'clock!"). But hey, what are wingmen for? .-)

[Bucic]

My biggest problem is that I simply don't see enemy helos even when they're called out by friendlies ("One, tally bandit, one o'clock!"). But hey, what are wingmen for? .-)

Try to wipe the ground surface to put everything that flies above 30 meters against the sky :)

[Yurgon]

Not sure if I ever tried this mission. Going to have to fire BS back up and give this a shot. Can't be that difficult...

Well. I think you just applied for the 2010 "Famous Last Words" contest. :-)