ATC communication

[HemingwayFE]

Ok, well, no harm no foul.

 

But to be fair, I thought his post pretty explicitly addressed US vs. International procedure and usage.

 

No biggie. I'm just sayin'. :)

 

PS - Can you say what you're flying? I'm not sure FRED can generate 2 sorties in a week, lol. So that leaves Tankers, Herks, and a few things that start with "E".

 

E-3 Sentry. We break with the best of them.

[ronht]

Flight Level 90 is 9,000 ft, Flight Level 100 is 10,000 ft and so on in Europe.

 

In the US Flight Level 230 is 23,000ft and Flight Level 420 is 42000 ft and so on.

 

In countries that use meters they say the entire number for the altitude ie. "Climb to Ten Thousand, Six Hundred meters" and generally they don't use the term "Flight Level" when speaking altitudes in meters.

[Exangelus]

Just to be clear, flightlevels are all the same in any country. One flight level is 100 feet, you can't possible argue about it, it's a fact.

[ronht]

Just to be clear, flightlevels are all the same in any country. One flight level is 100 feet, you can't possible argue about it, it's a fact.

 

Actually - they're not.

 

What's the same is that all assignable altitudes (based on direction) above the Transition Altitude are referred to as flight levels, however, they may be aligned differently.

 

For instance the flight levels in China are aligned differently than the flight levels in Russia, even though they are both referenced in meters.

 

As an example, an aircraft on a westerly route in China @ 10100 meters, (which is a valid flight level in China) would have to climb to 10600 meters when transitioning into Russian airspace, or descend to 9600 meters because those are the closest "assignable" valid flight levels for the direction, that Russia has in their airspace.

[effte]

Flight levels are flight levels, and one flight level is 100 feet and to be flown on standard altimeter setting. This is about as universal as anything gets - I'd be very surprised if any individual state has registered an exception to this definition of flight levels. FL90 = 9000 feet QNE. No ifs or buts.

 

The flight levels used in the route system in a given country may vary, but assignable flight levels are an entirely different matter from the plain definition of what a flight level is. Let's not confuscate matters unnecessarily. Otherwise, we could bring QFF into the mix as well... :)

[Exangelus]

Actually - they're not.

 

What's the same is that all assignable altitudes (based on direction) above the Transition Altitude are referred to as flight levels, however, they may be aligned differently.

 

For instance the flight levels in China are aligned differently than the flight levels in Russia, even though they are both referenced in meters.

 

As an example, an aircraft on a westerly route in China @ 10100 meters, (which is a valid flight level in China) would have to climb to 10600 meters when transitioning into Russian airspace, or descend to 9600 meters because those are the closest "assignable" valid flight levels for the direction, that Russia has in their airspace.

 

As effte already pointed out a flight level is just a flight level.

The routing system might use other FL's but even FL49 excists as long as it is above the TA of the FIR, it's as simple as that!

[ronht]

As effte already pointed out a flight level is just a flight level.

The routing system might use other FL's but even FL49 excists as long as it is above the TA of the FIR, it's as simple as that!

 

No not exactly.

 

Flight levels are not random altitudes, they are explicitly laid out generally at 1000 ft or 300 meter intervals based on the direction of flight.

 

Aircraft that are flying at altitudes that do not correspond to one of the organized flight levels report their exact altitude and do not use "flight level" when announcing it.

[effte]

Aircraft that are flying at altitudes that do not correspond to one of the organized flight levels report their exact altitude and do not use "flight level" when announcing it.

 

Nope. Once above TA, it's all levels. "With you FL125 climbing FL190". How would you report an altitude when you have your altimeter set for QNE and levels? And why? What good would it be to ATC, who are separating you from traffic flying levels and checking your reported altitude against a FL readout?

[ronht]

I was referencing the organized flight levels - we're talking about different issues and there are many different variables depending on the country. The point is that not everybody does it the same way.

[Exangelus]

Organised or not, as effte says all altitudes above TA are flightlevels, "organised" flight levels are BS, the ATC uses general guidelines and for the simplicity but it doesn't mean they couldn't use a FL129 for instance..

[Tango]

Has anyone mentioned RVSM yet? Reduced Vertical Seperation Minima.

 

Flight Levels are used to denote standard pressure (29.92 in Hg or 1013.2 mb) is being used. Altitudes are used when flying QHN or QFE.

 

Don't confuse flight levels with assigned direction of flight (generally, flying east = even FLs, west = odd) or with FLs assigned when flying NAT tracks.

 

Ultimately the assigned altitude rests with ATC, and aircraft separation with the pilot.

 

A more interesting subject is why the transition altitude is what it is, and why it exists? :)

 

Best regards,

Tango.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Tango

[Cypher]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduced_Vertical_Separation_Minima

[effte]

Has anyone mentioned RVSM yet? Reduced Vertical Seperation Minima.

 

Yes. :)

 

A more interesting subject is why the transition altitude is what it is, and why it exists? :)

 

May I be so bold as to recommend having a gander at post #11 in this very thread? ;)

[ronht]

Well unfortunately, this thread is turning into more of a head-butting contest than a discussion on what actually occurs in the real world so I'll leave you guys to discuss it as you wish.

[TwoLate]

Ok in the mission planner lets say a QNH is 775. when inbound ATC gives QFE of 30. How do I get a pressure so I can reset the Altimeter

[mytai01]

American ATC (civilian/military) will only give you the altimeter setting. If you ask for QFE they won't know what you are talking about. Maybe the British use it. In fact, the AN/MSN-7 Mobile Tower only has an altimeter reading in it. We stick a tube outside from a hole in the cab and set the field elevation and it gives us an altimeter reading to issue pilots.

[mytai01]

Looks to me that current ATC communication is not just WIP, but also too simplified and thus non-functional.

 

First, the runway heading IRL is ALWAYS two digits, like "Runway Zero Niner".

 

Second, the tower should give you a departure vector, traffic information etc. Hopefully in time we get really decent ATC and comms in general. In my opinion, it should be something between Jane's F/A-18 and Microsoft FSX.

 

In fact, to my knowledge, Sweden uses QFE as well, but slowly transfers to QNH.

 

Oh, and "Climb to 300" means you should climb to 300 meters, which is a standard circuit altitude.

 

Wrong! According to FAAO 7110.65V Paragraph 2-4-17 Number Usage. Section J. Runways.

The word “runway,” followed by the separate digits of the runway designation. For a parallel runway, state the word “left,” “right,” or “center” if the letter “L,” “R,” or “C” is included in the designation.

EXAMPLE−

Designation

Statement

3

“Runway Three.”

8L

“Runway Eight Left.”

27R

“Runway Two Seven Right.”

[KittyVCAW-1]

I was curious about this so I did some research this morning. Climb 300 is the climb gradient. ATC is instructing you to climb at a rate of 300 ft/Nm.

[Deano87]

Wrong! According to FAAO 7110.65V Paragraph 2-4-17 Number Usage. Section J. Runways.

The word “runway,” followed by the separate digits of the runway designation. For a parallel runway, state the word “left,” “right,” or “center” if the letter “L,” “R,” or “C” is included in the designation.

EXAMPLE−

Designation

Statement

3

“Runway Three.”

8L

“Runway Eight Left.”

27R

“Runway Two Seven Right.”

 

In the UK and in a lot of other places you'd hear.

 

Runway Zero Three

Runway Zero Eight Left

 

I've flown around Europe a bit and never heard a runway heading been referred to as a single digit.

[Bimbac]

I can confirm this.

 

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