Are you happy with your thrustmaster warthog

[con3para]

My sticks are inbound today from Amazon.co.UK.... hope they are the real deal ..no seconds ..ill soon find out ) ...ALSO.... look at play.com

they are selling TOO .... same price last time i looked...F18 throttle is made up of a hard METAL rod centre and hard plastic.. hand throttle ..

Edited December 2, 2010 by con3para

[Deigs]

hey guys, mines arriving on Wednesday. I've read that some issues are with the TARGET software making some units brick? So when it arrives, just install the software and roll the dice? Or just use the A10 auto find till TARGET is sorted out?

 

I'm stoked that you all love it. Makes the waiting harder...

[MTFDarkEagle]

I would play it safe, and stick to the a-10c. You can always just assign the switches inside other sims as well, without TARGET.. I dont use target, because I don't wanna risk my wh turning into a very heavy and beautifull brick ;), but I also fly the ka-50, fsx and il2 with the wh.

 

I hope you will survive the wait :P I know what it feels like ;)

[Yskonyn]

Kinda weird people keep picking on the throttle. The part that your hand is in contact with most is aluminum. As far as play, the play/looseness is probably less than the real deal. I mean, think about your car with manual transmission. Wobbly gear shifter? Sure is. Normal? Yes.

 

There really is nothing at all wrong with a part being made of plastic, when plastic is OK for the part. Plastics, sometimes embedded with resins that make them more durable than metal in some cases, are not a bad thing. I think even the P-51 Mustang had some composit materials in it's wing.

 

And, I'd rather wear Kevlar than an old suit of armor. Plastic does not=cheap, all the time :-)

 

While I think your comparison of an aircraft throttle with a gear shifter poke of a car is kinda weird, (;)) cause the technical working is totally different. of course there is much play in the gear poke, cause you need to be able to put it sidewards into the different gears. A throttle only has to go forward and back, so I can understand people expecting no play at all.

But I do confirm that real deal hardware has play as well. At least the throttle quadrant on our 737s has some significant play as well. Also the throttle arms are quit flexible and feel 'wobbly' when tightly gripping them.

And that's on a 30 million dollar aircraft.

 

Then again; every instructor will start to yell at you when he notices you're gripping your controls too firmly. White knuckle flying isn't good. Be relaxed. ;)

 

The WH HOTAS is the most solid piece of computer hardware I have ever seen so far. The feel is definately on par with real deal steering columns and trottle quadrants, that is, if you fix it in place. Otherwise the throttle sometimes has the habit of sliding out of place when you want to take the throttles into or out of their detent.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Yskonyn

[Teej]

Re: Deigs & MTFDE....some people have had units fail, yes...but where are the reports of TARGET bricking the units and exactly how would you suggest it's doing that?

 

TARGET doesn't write anything to the units. (Someday it will have to in order to change those 5 "programmable" LEDs...but at this point it doesn't.)

 

At worst it might hose up the Windows recognition (and that could, in theory, be either a small or large number of the problems out there)...but that's a far cry from bricking it.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Teej

[Steel Jaw]

GRRRRR I have ordnance, move your civilian arse!

 

LMAO. :pilotfly:

[MTFDarkEagle]

Re: Deigs & MTFDE....some people have had units fail, yes...but where are the reports of TARGET bricking the units and exactly how would you suggest it's doing that?

 

TARGET doesn't write anything to the units. (Someday it will have to in order to change those 5 "programmable" LEDs...but at this point it doesn't.)

 

At worst it might hose up the Windows recognition (and that could, in theory, be either a small or large number of the problems out there)...but that's a far cry from bricking it.

 

True. But I say this because I installed target, and some minutes after I got the boat loader error. (it dissapeared, but nontheless...)

[PoleCat]

Very happy with my WH. Love it.

 

Out

[coolts]

Heh. If I hadnt mentioned a couple of things i didnt like i may have been called a FANBOY! ;)

 

Seriously though, it is a very nice, solid piece of kit. My cougar is in the loft and aint coming back in a hurry. Target runs just fine and i am learning it by slowly buildin a BS profile from scratch. No throttle / brick issues at all.

 

The slew control is the only thing i dont really like and strangely, it didnt pop into my head before,. I much preferred the microstick on the Cougar. This is one thing i will mod ASAP as it just aint accurate enough for the SHKVAL.

[LawnDart]

Heh. If I hadnt mentioned a couple of things i didnt like i may have been called a FANBOY!

 

I think it's FANBOI, fanboi! ;)

[Teej]

True. But I say this because I installed target, and some minutes after I got the boat loader error. (it dissapeared, but nontheless...)

 

Definitely something that isn't explained well. Or perhaps at all. When you're installing target...if you get 'device detection' boxes pop up asking you how you want to handle drivers (I've only seen this on XP, didn't see it on my Win7 install) Don't ****ing touch anything. It should get through those windows by itself with absolutely no intervention on your part. Clicking on anything there hosed my install a couple of times.

[Deigs]

Thanks Teej for the heads up in regards to TARGET install. device detection is what I was hinting to when I was talking about the hotas issues. I'll follow your guide on wednesday when I get the unit and see how we go.

[Teej]

On my fresh built Win7, it was literally a no brainer...although it did need a reboot or two. I did it with the Warthog sticks already plugged in. I do not know if it's better or worse to do it that way vs unplugged. I know with the Cougar they wanted you to install the s/w & drivers before ever plugging in the Cougar, but I didn't see any such warnings here.

 

I mostly saw the detection popups with my 5 year old XP install that had previous beta software that I was uninstalling. I'm sure that played into it somewhat.

 

My point here was simply that: There are some people having real, actual problems - we know this is fact. I just don't think we need to scare people with unsubstantiated and/or plainly false rumors about things like TARGET bricking sticks - I *HIGHLY* doubt this has or even could happen.

 

I also strongly doubt the unplugging with computer off bit is causing problems either...I suppose it's theoretically possible, but I'd bet against there being an actual causal relationship there....in part because I've done it a bunch of times.

[Slammin]

The throttle does seem to have some very strange behavior though. It stays lit when the computer sleeps or is shutdown. Or, if you have the throttle plugged into a USB hub, the throttle stays lit when the computer shuts down. If you power the hub off, the throttle goes dark but if you then power the hub on, the 5 round lights on the throttle light up.

 

Maybe this is fine but then again, maybe some condition exists (botton position, etc.) where the throttle is expecting a firmware flash when it sees a power transition?

[Teej]

If you power the hub off, the throttle goes dark but if you then power the hub on, the 5 round lights on the throttle light up.

 

Maybe this is fine but then again, maybe some condition exists (botton position, etc.) where the throttle is expecting a firmware flash when it sees a power transition?

 

I can offer a "very likely" explanation for the behavior of the lights. It is not based on any discussion with TM...I haven't looked for this in the doc...It's based on my own experiences with coding USB combined with my observation of the TMWH throttle....I could well be wrong (I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything!)...

 

In terms of functionality, USB more closely resembles an ethernet connection than an old-school "serial" connection. There are differences here, so if anyone else has experience with this, yes, I know Windows behaves a bit different, but this is a _general_ explanation of the USB connection/enumeration process. I'm well aware it's not 100% technically accurate, but it's "correct enough" for this discussion.

 

When you plug in a device, Windows recognizes the change in the USB...fabric, if you will. (The device starts drawing power and holds one of the signal lines low (or high? I forget. Been too long since I looked at it THAT deeply). At this point, the 5 LEDs on the Warthog come on.

 

Windows acknowledges the new device (the device then releases the line) and Windows basically sends a message to the new device saying "Who are you?" The device responds with part of its identification info (device descriptor) which gives Windows a rough idea of what the device needs. Windows then sends back a reply saying "OK, you will be device XX on my network. Reset yourself and call back when the address is in place." The device clears itself out, sets the address and connects to Windows again. Window requests a more complete description of the device, format for data exchange, etc...and then the device is "live". I believe it is at that point that the 5 LEDs go out and the rest turn on - once the device is "addressed" and talking operationally to Windows.

 

There is a mode where certain control positions while plugging it in tell the device to listen for firmware...but it's not like that 5-LED status "means" anything - just that the device isn't talking to Windows. It may be because it's cooked or there might be something wrong with Windows' registry or something else locked up on the USB circuit, etc.

 

You cannot assume _anything_ from the 5 LED state other than that the device hasn't successfully enumerated to Windows. It will do that if you plug it into any USB power source where you don't have a host to talk to.

 

As to why the lights stay on when you shut windows down...perhaps they didn't implement a "shut down" protocol to turn the lights off. I honestly don't remember if Windows sends a "shutdown" command to every USB device or not. Either way, motherboards (this isn't just a Windows thing) don't always shut down all power to the USB ports (otherwise you wouldn't be able to do a keystroke-power-on / resume) and the LEDs require so little power that it just doesn't shut itself down. Probably less than 100ma total for all the LEDs on the base...and at 5v, that's less than half a watt of power.

 

The ****ing short version is this: (<- search youtube for 'big lebowski short version' if you don't find this funny. ;) )

I think the behavior Slammin mentions is fine/normal.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Teej

[con3para]

has anyone sent an email to thrustmaster asking these questions ..

[LawnDart]

The ****ing short version is this: (<- search youtube for 'big lebowski short version' if you don't find this funny. ;) )

I think the behavior Slammin mentions is fine/normal.

 

:megalol:

[Slammin]

Yeah, for what it's worth, it doesn't appear this behavior causes any issue with my throttle, just something I've observed. My guess is that the throttle is not reacting to a USB shutdown code or something, just like Teej said.

 

One thing for certain that is troubling is that some folks are unplugging their units after they shut down. This time of year the air is so dry that I hate even opening up my computer for anything. I know about static electricity and proper grounding, but that sounds very risky since a lot of folks may not be aware of static electricity and grounding, and how damaging it can be to computer parts.

[Pilotasso]

Mine does the 5 LED thing too when booting up, but the difference is that, I dont plug off the WARTHOG. I just switch off my PC extension at the interrupter (my extension is of of those that protects connected devices from spikes etc).

[Yskonyn]

I always unplug the hotas before powering down the pc.

Static electricity isn't a problem because the plug is insulated and your case of the computer should be grounded. No risk for internal parts if its built correctly.

[zaelu]

I like Cougar Warthog a lot... a good friend of mine bought one and he gave me for nothing his perfectly working G940. So... Thank you Thrustmaster... :P

 

I sold my old Cougar for almost nothing cause I didn't like how it felt... like a controller for a Mining Machine but put to control uber sensitive Aeromodels.

 

PC Controllers should not have free play... cause in that free play there is input... not the case in the real aircraft where freeplay means no input. And this coupled with the fact that most of simulators have airplanes that don't feel like they have mass...

 

so... Warthog Cougar is great... :D

[hassata]

... cause in that free play there is input...

 

But you can increase the deadzone accordingly in the software. I have deadzone at 5, curve at 30 iirc to approximate 'airplane' feel even wit the super accurate WH

[topdog]

I'd agree, the Warthog HOTAS is the best there is at the moment.

 

Just a word of warning if buying from Amazon UK. When yours arrives make sure the outer box (brown cardboard) is still sealed. Mine didn't even arrive in the original outer cardboard box and the stick and throttle looked decidedly second hand to me! No original box, fingermarks all over it, no ties on cables, a lot of play on the right hand throttle lever both lateral and when pushing forward. This one also had a very low serial number which as far as I can make out isn't even close to the numbers on units being sold at the moment.

 

I sent this one back stating that the unit had been used which was not acceptable as I had payed for a new one. I wanted a replacement but they would only offer a refund.

 

I hope you have better luck with Amazon than I did. Having said that it's the first problem I've had with them after many years of good service. I'll purchase another elsewhere once Amazon get round to processing my refund!

 

I got the very first of amazon.co.uk's shipments of the warthog, and the colourful hog box was inside typical amazon brown packaging material, and not any 'original' brown box packing it may have arrived (to them) in.

 

The serial number was higher than many other hogs being bought by people several weeks later than mine, I guess that's just distribution channels and times for you, but it certainly was in no doubt 'new' with respect to cable ties and so forth.

 

So.. I guess my point is, if you thought amazon would ever use anything but their own packaging outside the coloured box, I don't think that would happen (unless you buy from one of the shops that sell under amazon's name, but not fulfilled and shipped by amazon themselves) as they're rather proud of their packaging approach (ref: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200392050 ), and you can't really read much into the serial numbers. The other things you mention are fair/valid sounding to me though to be cautionary, seems like you got one that someone else had returned for refund (for some reason).

[sneakypete]

I got the very first of amazon.co.uk's shipments of the warthog, and the colourful hog box was inside typical amazon brown packaging material, and not any 'original' brown box packing it may have arrived (to them) in.

 

The serial number was higher than many other hogs being bought by people several weeks later than mine, I guess that's just distribution channels and times for you, but it certainly was in no doubt 'new' with respect to cable ties and so forth.

 

So.. I guess my point is, if you thought amazon would ever use anything but their own packaging outside the coloured box, I don't think that would happen (unless you buy from one of the shops that sell under amazon's name, but not fulfilled and shipped by amazon themselves) as they're rather proud of their packaging approach (ref: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200392050 ), and you can't really read much into the serial numbers. The other things you mention are fair/valid sounding to me though to be cautionary, seems like you got one that someone else had returned for refund (for some reason).

 

Thanks for the info and your views Topdog. Interesting regarding the non original outer cardboard box. It seems odd that Amazon would take it out of the original sealed box to put it in their own :huh:. But if yours was the same then I guess they prefer their own way of packing.

 

I returned mine because there were obvious signs that I wasn't the first owner. Also, the right hand throttle lever on this one had IMO excessive play, ie if you put your finger on the top corner of the right lever and you could rotate it in a little circle so in effect it had both lateral and linear play which was enough for me to notice whilst in use. I think I could have lived with it but in the end I returned it as the concensus amongst most I mentioned it to was that I had received a 'used' unit when I had payed for a new one.

 

I'm just waiting for the refund to go into my account so I can send for a hopefully 'new' WH. If I can hang on a week or 2 there may be a price drop, I think Amazon have already dropped the price on theirs slightly.

 

In the short time I had the WH I was impressed, although It was a bit of a shock feel wise coming from a CH Fighterstick! Need to find a decent workout for my girlie wrists! :thumbup:

Edited December 4, 2010 by sneakypete

[TenBlade]

Overall I´m quite happy with the Warthog. The throttles are a bit jiggly, sideways, and the three way switch on the left side of the throttle handle is lose. It´ll move quite some distance up and down, whereas the intended motion is back n forth in the horizontal plane.

 

The control stick will rotate a bit along it´s axis, nothing that seems to bother me while flying though.

 

Is there a way to tighten those things up? Feels a bit tacky. They´ve spent who knows how much energy on giving the buttons the right resistante to touch, then these lose bits diappoint me a bit. Wish they´d made it rock solid all the way through, would´ve paid extra... Perhaps I´m just a bit unfortunate, and got a unit made on Monday morning...

 

The "OFF" at the throttle is not lit, and the "ALT" in ALT/HDG is not lit, the latter gets some illumination from the diode under HDG, so it´s readable. Is that supposed to be so, or did a few diodes already die on me?

 

Any help appreciated. Regards.

 

Bjorn

 

PS. Can´t wait to take the A-10 for a spin soon!