nomdeplume Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Sure the beta is going to have a very high percentage of online players, but I don't really see the reason for focusing just on the beta. It's not exactly indicative of the market for the final released product. I'm no expert, but I'm fairly certain that designing a game to meet the desires of people who pre-order a product in order to participate in a download-only beta isn't a sound business strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF74_Raptor Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Online with a Squadron Best feeling in the world to have buddies beside you I came I saw I got blown up by a SA-8:pilotfly: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] http://www.firstfighterwing.com/forums/content.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shu77 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Personally I think people who dont fly on line dont know what they are missing. The community on servers like the 104th is so different form something like Black Ops its amazing. Hornet, Super Carrier, Warthog & (II), Mustang, Spitfire, Albatross, Sabre, Combined Arms, FC3, Nevada, Gulf, Normandy, Syria AH-6J i9 10900K @ 5.0GHz, Gigabyte Z490 Vision G, Cooler Master ML120L, Gigabyte RTX3080 OC Gaming 10Gb, 64GB RAM, Reverb G2 @ 2480x2428, TM Warthog, Saitek pedals & throttle, DIY collective, TrackIR4, Cougar MFDs, vx3276-2k Combat Wombat's Airfield & Enroute Maps and Planning Tools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomba Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Good point nomdeplume. It's just nowadays there tends to be more gravity in online experience. Flying a throw together mission with a few friends in a squadron is lots of fun. Those SA-11s and 10s are diabolical. I don't test for bugs, but when I do I do it in production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadTommy Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Its appears ED believe DCS is a offline product. yet Blackshark was only available as a download for many months..I've never seen FC / FC2 or Blackshark in a shop. (i know it exists, its just rare), Blackshark is available through Steam, I've never seen a print advert for it....this all leads to a very odd collection of facts and EDs constant position the offline is far more important than online. (there always seems to be something 'more important' to work on than online features.) All very bizarre. Edited January 20, 2011 by MadTommy i5-3570K @ 4.5 Ghz, Asus P8Z77-V, 8 GB DDR3, 1.5GB GTX 480 (EVGA, superclocked), SSD, 2 x 1680x1050, x-fi extreme music. TM Warthog, Saitek combat pro pedals, TrackIR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomba Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Well, ED only have so many resources. They achieve a hell of a lot, but only so much can be done at any one time. I don't test for bugs, but when I do I do it in production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element1108 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 That's right and we're always all about the next module, simmers are always looking beyond what they have (it's more of a flaw than anything). Wish lists are far easier to write down than they are to make reality. Madtommy: Because DCS is primarily available online doesn't make its audience more willing/able to fly online most of the time. Given the nature of my work I'm online almost all the time, but I dont' have a fraction of that time to fly online. Proper multiplayer (the kind we're all hoping for) requires a more substantial amount of time to organise, plan and execute to it's fullest potential. I personally barely have enough time to startup the shark/hog and do a mission inside a week, never mind playing online. At least I can pause an offline mission if my wife needs me for something (wink wink nudge nudge, say no more), or there is a phone call or whatever. I don't know if this applies to everybody, but the older I've gotten (i'm not even that old) the less time I have to play on the computer (by play i mean sim okay). When I get some dedicated time, I'll look to online servers first and if numbers are low or most gamers in server are lone wolfs I'll fly offline. Online for me is like...going on a snowboard trip and getting an epic powder day. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does it's magic. It is the way these games should be played (having a human wingman who is capable is the greatest), but it's outside the reach of most "older" gamers who have RL responsibilities influencing how they spend their sim time. Anyway that's my take on it, in a perfect ideal world...online for sure, but that's just not possible for me at this time...and I'm sure many others as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomba Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I hear you there. I don't visit public servers, but instead just have a group of friends in a squadron where we populate a TS channel we have. You jump on any time and some may be there just gas bagging. Someone throws up a server and we all join in for an excellent mission. I suggest you do the same, it's lots of fun and you don't have to put up with lone wolves or no comms. Team work with a wingman is a lot of fun. I don't test for bugs, but when I do I do it in production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Bizarre because it is an incorrect conclusion. ED's position is for the moment correct given the markets the are into; despite this, the MP portion is there, and it works despite the current disparities with the off-line part. Eventually it will all get harmonized, but not today. Its appears ED believe DCS is a offline product. yet Blackshark was only available as a download for many months..I've never seen FC / FC2 or Blackshark in a shop. (i know it exists, its just rare), Blackshark is available through Steam, I've never seen a print advert for it....this all leads to a very odd collection of facts and EDs constant position the offline is far more important than online. (there always seems to be something 'more important' to work on than online features.) All very bizarre. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flim Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 well, from a business prospective in the civil market, MP should be in the top 3 priorities. Look at all games these days... mostly consoles, more people play online then off. 1. Accurate aircraft--- check 2. realistic ever-changing battle environment/ "I know you guys don't like to hear this , but a type of Dynamic war" This will keep customers for the long run. Falcon did that correctly 3. MP 4. and so on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Are you playing DCS A-10C on a console? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixBvo Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 That's a very silly remark and an easy way out. The guy has a point about what priority the online component should have. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] CPU i7 4970k @ 4.7 GHz RAM 16GB G.Skill TridentX 1600 ATX ASUS Z97-PRO DSU Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SSD for Win10, Plextor M6e 128GB SSD for DCS exclusively, RAID-1 HDDs GFX Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Xtreme Edition, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, 27" with G-Sync, Oculus Rift CV1 HID TM HOTAS Warthog + 10 cm extension, MFG Crosswind pedals, TrackIR 5, Obutto oZone My TM Warthog Profile + Chart, F-15C EM Diagram Generator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 When you have to compare to a completely different genre, how can you make a qualified point at all? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixBvo Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 When you have to compare to a completely different genre, how can you make a qualified point at all? Yes, we're in a niche market. The large public playing consoles is not the target ED should be looking at, granted. But the general trend, in simulation as well, has been ever more toward online for years now. I think you guys would be missing out on a lot of potential customers by advertising DCS as an offline game. Emphasizing the active online community, squads, compatibility with BS and integrated server menu (not to mention integrated VoIP system working with the simulator radio system hint hint) will be appealing to many. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] CPU i7 4970k @ 4.7 GHz RAM 16GB G.Skill TridentX 1600 ATX ASUS Z97-PRO DSU Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SSD for Win10, Plextor M6e 128GB SSD for DCS exclusively, RAID-1 HDDs GFX Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Xtreme Edition, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, 27" with G-Sync, Oculus Rift CV1 HID TM HOTAS Warthog + 10 cm extension, MFG Crosswind pedals, TrackIR 5, Obutto oZone My TM Warthog Profile + Chart, F-15C EM Diagram Generator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcturus323 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Solo Pilot. Main reason still learning don't wish to slow ppl down. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ 2.83Ghz | ASUS P5KPL-CM Mobo | ATI HD3870 Running 2xDisplay | Cougar Thrustmaster MFDs | Saitek ST90 |Saitek Pro Flight Combat Rudder Pedals l TrackIR 5 Pro Clip | Logitch G5 Mouse | Several Rolls Of Duct Tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirtma Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Offline all the time. Gigabyte Z490 Gaming X | i5 10600K@4700 | 32 Gb DDR4 @ 3200Mhz | Gigabyte Aorus GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11G | MONITOR IIYAMA 24,5" LED LCD @ 1920 x 1080 | Windows 11 | Saitek X-55 Rhino | TrackIR 5 Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomba Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Oddly enough I began as a solo not wanting to hinder others in MP, but when I got asked to join in MP I found everyone to be very patient and helpful to a new pilot trying to get to grips with things. My learning curve went up dramatically due to their tuition. Everyone does what they can to spread the knowledge around and to help newer players increase their skill. And of course you pass it on in kind. I find the general attitudes of players to be very positive, which is almost polar opposite to popular FPS MP, where you would quite often be ridiculed for being a noob. I don't test for bugs, but when I do I do it in production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Yep, this is fairly typical when you run into the right crowd :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 And I will re-iterate once more that while your statement is generally correct, it fails to take into account the parameters of this trend. How big it is actually? How fast is it moving? The reality is that it is small, and moving slowly. For what reason then, should ED drop everythign and go and restructure MP right this moment? I guess I have to reiterate the trend that you are not seeing here. ED has a plan, and they follow it carefully, and revise where it is needed. DCS is an evolving project and it is not standing still by any means. The gains over previous ED offerings are huge, and they can do this because they follow their plan. At some point, they will turn their attention to the MP part proper, whereas right now they are just keeping it working as best as they can given time constraints (and it is not a zero-effort exercise. Quite the opposite). This is no different than any other part of the sim: The sound engine has gotten a significant treatment, so has the ME, so have the graphics and physics engines, the AI. There's a move towards multi-threading as well, and there is the 64-bit binary. MP will get its turn. I also don't see DCS being advertized as an offline game in general, it is advertized as a combat flight sim series with an MP component. But the general trend, in simulation as well, has been ever more toward online for years now. I think you guys would be missing out on a lot of potential customers by advertising DCS as an offline game. Emphasizing the active online community, squads, compatibility with BS and integrated server menu (not to mention integrated VoIP system working with the simulator radio system hint hint) will be appealing to many. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixBvo Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 OK, got the message. I know a lot is happening and improving and I'm a very happy customer. The prospect of MP getting an update as part of ED's master plan is quite satisfactory for me. I'll be patient, promised :D. Just don't get behind the facts, is all I'm saying. People will want new MP features, they are good value multipliers. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] CPU i7 4970k @ 4.7 GHz RAM 16GB G.Skill TridentX 1600 ATX ASUS Z97-PRO DSU Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SSD for Win10, Plextor M6e 128GB SSD for DCS exclusively, RAID-1 HDDs GFX Aorus GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Xtreme Edition, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, 27" with G-Sync, Oculus Rift CV1 HID TM HOTAS Warthog + 10 cm extension, MFG Crosswind pedals, TrackIR 5, Obutto oZone My TM Warthog Profile + Chart, F-15C EM Diagram Generator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104th_Crunch Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) MP for the win Alex! The one thing that I must say is that if MP is such a small base of total user base, does that mean it should just continue that way? We all know many other sims/games are huge because of MP right now. The push maybe should come from ED to make MP more popular. If the demand is there, people will buy it. In the end though I could be wrong and the rewards may be just greater for SP. We all know ED would love to have more MP functions for us, but resources are what they are. Besides, with A-10C being more co-op than player vs. player, hopefully a larger MP push will come when we see DCS:Fighter. (sorry for repeating myself from other posts) We do have some great MP functions as it is though and for that I am thankful. I hope to see more. For all those saying they don't do MP because they suck. Don't worry about that. As long as you have read the manual and you know how not to teamkill, you'll find lots of people willing to help. I would not know half the things I do if not for MP ,and because of it I can enjoy this hobby much more than I ever have could have learning by myself. Edited January 20, 2011 by Crunch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrad Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 At the risk of sounding arrogant, longevity for any sim (be it pc or console based) can only be found in an online environment. That is just obvious, and one certainly does not need any market figures to prove the obvious. Komrad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ells228 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I'm for online flying (although gone back to beta 3, 4 crashes for me, but happy with 3 and learning more Hog functions until 5 is out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 ... and this is obviously why companies fail :D At the risk of sounding arrogant, longevity for any sim (be it pc or console based) can only be found in an online environment. That is just obvious, and one certainly does not need any market figures to prove the obvious. Komrad. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoochy Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I play offline all the time, for every sim I've owned from Microsoft Flight Sim to Oleg's IL series and each DCS/Eagle Dynamics release. Because of this, I look for an offline component such as a dynamic campaign or mission generator to keep my interest in the sim going, MSFS being the exception. Also, because of the dynamic campaign, I still regularly fly Falcon 4.0 and AF because the dynamic campaign gives me an ever changing environment in which to fight. Online has never appealed to me simply because I do not have the time to commit, and it really limits how I want to fly the sim. If we look back on the successful simulations of the past, Lock-on, IL2, Falcon and the like, we can ask "Why was this sim successful?” . Is it the online or offline component? The sum of the two? Is it the continuous support that the product received both 1st and 3rd party? If the online component contributes directly towards the success of a sim, how much of that investment actually paid off? To what degree does online need to be incorporated? I'm not to familiar with the Strike Fighters series, but I don't think that has an online component and it has been running relatively strong for quite some time. For me, being a player who only flys offline, I could care less about the online portion. To me, the campaign system, aircraft simulation and the continued evolution of the sim keep me coming back. Also, an online poll would provide some seriously skewed results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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