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Posted

I think that TM warthog priced at around 500 $ has such a low quality slew control on throttle ...Just the other day i watched a documentary JetStream about Canadian F-18 training, and in one episode they explained some of the switches/povs on f-18 hotas..There was the slew control that was similar to TM warthog, but instead of a micro stick inside slew control, the whole slew POV is moveable ...

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Pilot from Croatia

Posted

Don't know where you have seen TM for such high price ($500!) ... It is overpriced generally but average price I saw about 350-400 bucks.

Reminder: Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! :D | Also to be remembered: FRENCH TANKS HAVE ONE GEAR FORWARD AND FIVE BACKWARD :D

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Posted

Well thats good enough answer for me!

 

The slew control on actual aircraft controls is a pressure-sensitive sensor. Don't quote me, but I believe something like this would alone take the gaming HOTAS price into the thousands.

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Pilot from Croatia

Posted (edited)
The slew control on actual aircraft controls is a pressure-sensitive sensor. Don't quote me, but I believe something like this would alone take the gaming HOTAS price into the thousands.

I dare to say that falling for such excuses is the very reason why we still deal with poor quality in high-priced products. The No 2 top reason is people's susceptibility to marketing. Even those moderately techy ones.

 

In most cases poor performance of commercial controls is caused by outright design flaws. Flaws that are in no way cost justified. Some alternative solutions would increase costs by very small amount while giving big performance improvements (according to 80/20 rule)*. For most of the high end industry grade solutions there lower priced solutions of slightly inferior performance (regarding the example you gave).

 

That said if a certain manufacturer evaluates that it's better to invest in marketing rather than in proper design and production "because they will understand limitations anyway" consumers are the only ones to blame :)

 

 

 

An example:

Axial play (wobbliness) for a shaft on ball bearings can be canceled by means of... a single spring washer. ;)

Edited by Bucic
Posted

i m with Bucic on this one...

 

Most of the crappy features and products we get are our own fault.

Were we more strick on delivered quality , problem wouldn t be put on market or would be quickly solved.

Things like: The world will end if we dont support company X or Y are counterproductive.

But sometime its hard to refrain from solving a "need" on a whim.

As an example, how many of us should have waited to see warthog performance and bugs, but we where so willing to have a new toy that we jumped on it on a knee jerk, especially with Cougar background.

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Posted

I am still stuck after 10 years with the Cougar and its major issues all related to either design flaws or poor manufacturing. I am not sure TM even deserves any more business from me.

"You see, IronHand is my thing"

My specs:  W10 Pro, I5/11600K o/c to 4800 @1.32v, 64 GB 3200 XML RAM, Red Dragon 7800XT/16GB, monitor: GIGABYTE M32QC 32" (31.5" Viewable) QHD 2560 x 1440 (2K) 165Hz.

Posted

I do not think the slew control is that low quality. Both axes have 1024 possible readouts and it has HAL sensors like the rest of the axes. Once you get the hang of it, it is very precise.

 

Yes, the real a-10 has the same slew control as you see in that video.

 

You can call it a marketing trick, and since we are high-involved consumer group, we are susceptible to cool specifications that do not really matter but the fact of the matter is that no producer has brought an equal controller on the market for less.

 

If there are no alternatives you can hardly blame the consumer for buying what he can. From the producer perspective, how many less people would buy it if it was 50 bucks more? Or 100? Or maybe 2 or 300? Would it then still be profitable to make it?

 

As Bucic puts it now, there would be a huge gap in the market to fill up by someone who can develop a high-quality product for the same price and still be profitable. Then why is it not happening? Why is nobody standing up and obliterating the established stick manufacturers with products of superior quality but equal pricing?

 

Something to think about. Because in the global economy of today, if there is a profit oppurtunity, you can be damn sure that somebody pursues it especially if it is so straightforward as suggested here.

 

Do you have a link to that particular video?

 

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Posted
I do not think the slew control is that low quality. Both axes have 1024 possible readouts and it has HAL sensors like the rest of the axes. Once you get the hang of it, it is very precise.

 

Yes, the real a-10 has the same slew control as you see in that video.

 

You can call it a marketing trick, and since we are high-involved consumer group, we are susceptible to cool specifications that do not really matter but the fact of the matter is that no producer has brought an equal controller on the market for less.

 

If there are no alternatives you can hardly blame the consumer for buying what he can. From the producer perspective, how many less people would buy it if it was 50 bucks more? Or 100? Or maybe 2 or 300? Would it then still be profitable to make it?

 

As Bucic puts it now, there would be a huge gap in the market to fill up by someone who can develop a high-quality product for the same price and still be profitable. Then why is it not happening? Why is nobody standing up and obliterating the established stick manufacturers with products of superior quality but equal pricing?

 

Something to think about. Because in the global economy of today, if there is a profit oppurtunity, you can be damn sure that somebody pursues it especially if it is so straightforward as suggested here.

 

 

 

http://papernyfilms.com/store#ecwid:category=0&mode=product&product=363167

 

Agree partially, that does not justify poor implementation and low quality components when the consumer is getting better component to mod the product.

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Posted

In the global economy of today, any producer going to mass-market with a joystick has to not only be able to produce it at a profitable price-point, but also has to be prepared to take on the existing major players and all their licensing deals/patents/partners in court. We'd like to think it's simple - but it's not. We consumers vote with our dollars ... and we like the latest and greatest, even if it comes with a few problems.

Posted

This court thing is an American disease. Rest of the world aint like "you farted! i ll sue you"... at least not yet.

I prefer without problems thank you.

One of todays problem is too much investment in MKT and not enought on the product itself. Althought i haven t followed much WT mkt, it seems TM was quite low profile on this aspect which is good.

A pity this bricking affair came in.

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Posted (edited)
We consumers vote with our dollars ... and we like the latest and greatest, even if it comes with a few problems.

For that perfect-world mechanism to work two things are required:

1. Proper information regarding actual performance.

2. Marketing tricks awareness.

So I encourage everyone to include as much as possible of both.

 

The most important thing to understand is that exposing faults on various forums is a part of already imbalanced manufacturer vs. client relationship (forums have very limited audience*). A forum user demanding from such critics to include both point of views is not exactly working towards improving balance. Especially with not exactly legitimate ('probably...') arguments. To put it simpler a sensible approach is, in general, to focus on discovering disadvantages and tricks as we are bombarded with alleged 'advantages' every step of the way.

 

Edit:

* By that I meant small numbers! :D

Edited by Bucic
Posted (edited)
This court thing is an American disease.

 

Well not to get political or what-not, but that is certainly true: only in America could you successfully sue McDonalds for their coffee being hot.

Edited by Mower

"You see, IronHand is my thing"

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Posted

I have a real mixed opinion on that McDonald's case.

 

On the one hand, I completely agree that you should not be able to sue someone for providing you *precisely* what you expected and then hurting yourself due to your own clumsiness. Case closed and dismissed with prejudice.

 

That said...it's not like she burned her finger and made ka-ching! noises expecting to get rich. She got burned pretty badly and after 2 years of treatments she pretty much asked/sued for $20K to cover the medical expenses and lost wages. Ignoring for the moment that it was her fault and not McD's...I can feel some sympathy. It escalated when McD's offered $800.

 

The true lunacy lies with the jury that made the huge award (later chopped down to a still far too high (in that it was above $0) amount).

 

Coffee needs to be brewed at 190 / 93 degrees. If you place that between your legs and pull the top off...best of luck to ya.

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Posted (edited)

This isn't another one of those "Cant afford it/Wont pay for it" threads again is it? Its getting to be a very old and boring subject.

 

<Tongue firmly in Cheek Mode On>

I posed a question just like it on the Aston Martin website only a few minutes ago if it is ;)

<Tongue firmly in Cheek Mode Off>

 

Text based Flow diagram for you:

 

Don't like it? ------ Don't buy it.

|

Don't think its worth it? ------ Don't buy it.

|

Like it? Not sure you can afford it right now ------ Save up for longer then buy it.

|

Don't care how much it is and still not sure? ------ Buy it, you'll be sure and think it was worth it soon enough.

 

Its a market place, you get what you pay for in most cases and most of us are mostly happy.

By the way, Im not rich so not saying this from that perspective before anyone wonders.

Edited by JaseGill
  • Like 1

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Posted
I have a real mixed opinion on that McDonald's case.

 

On the one hand, I completely agree that you should not be able to sue someone for providing you *precisely* what you expected and then hurting yourself due to your own clumsiness. Case closed and dismissed with prejudice.

 

That said...it's not like she burned her finger and made ka-ching! noises expecting to get rich. She got burned pretty badly and after 2 years of treatments she pretty much asked/sued for $20K to cover the medical expenses and lost wages. Ignoring for the moment that it was her fault and not McD's...I can feel some sympathy. It escalated when McD's offered $800.

 

The true lunacy lies with the jury that made the huge award (later chopped down to a still far too high (in that it was above $0) amount).

 

Coffee needs to be brewed at 190 / 93 degrees. If you place that between your legs and pull the top off...best of luck to ya.

 

True-this case came up whilst I was in law school. Micky D's actions were totally reprehensible, and the judgement was mostly punitive.

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Posted
Don't like it? ------ Don't buy it.

|

Don't think its worth it? ------ Don't buy it.

|

Like it? Not sure you can afford it right now ------ Save up for longer then buy it.

|

Don't care how much it is and still not sure? ------ Buy it, you'll be sure and think it was worth it soon enough.

That!!

 

I saved for more than 3/4 of a year to be able to afford it, and I would do it again!

Posted
I saved for more than 3/4 of a year to be able to afford it, and I would do it again!

 

The same could be said for a call girl who gave me a parting gift I had to get blood work to indentify. :D

  • Like 1

"You see, IronHand is my thing"

My specs:  W10 Pro, I5/11600K o/c to 4800 @1.32v, 64 GB 3200 XML RAM, Red Dragon 7800XT/16GB, monitor: GIGABYTE M32QC 32" (31.5" Viewable) QHD 2560 x 1440 (2K) 165Hz.

Posted
The same could be said for a call girl who gave me a parting gift I had to get blood work to indentify. :D

Yeah, they basically say "Do the party girl, and then do the blood work and see if you were lucky". :disgust:

 

A hint: Thrustmaster is a party girl who doesn't say what's in her blood.

Posted
True-this case came up whilst I was in law school. Micky D's actions were totally reprehensible, and the judgement was mostly punitive.

 

Micky D = MC Donald ?

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Posted (edited)

Micky D.

Then how can their attitude be reprehensible ?

its not their fault if customers are mentally challenged or do brainfart, is it ?

All this is ridiculous and pathetic as so many case that make USA justice be a worldwide joke.

They should never have been sued, judge should never have accepted such a case to go on , on the first place.

 

This kind of attitude only incentive people to be dumb, act dumb and try to get away wih their stupidity with money.

 

Its like inserting the warthog stick somewhere not intended and have ripping issues, then suing TM allegating the thing name is Joy-stick, but its not written anywhere you not supposed to use it that way. :sad:

Edited by Succellus

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Track IR 5, Hall sensed Cougar, Hall sensed TM RCS TM Warthog(2283), TM MFD, Saitek pro combat rudder, Cougar MFD.

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