Difficulty of spotting targets: Real life vs. Simulator

[kingneptune117]

Hey guys,

 

I find it really hard to spot targets in DCS: A-10C Warthog unless they are within like 2nm. I feel this is because it is of course a simulator, and cannot display as high of resolution as real life can. Would I be correct in saying that you can spot tanks further away in real life than you can in DCS?

 

But on the other hand, in real life there is stuff like grass, brush, trees, dust, etc...

 

So what do you guys think?

[tusler]

Yes, turn on labels:P

[spn]

I changed the labels.lua file to just display a small dot for all the ground targets and got rid of all of the naming convention, etc. You still know where they are but without all of the extra info.

[Mirtma]

I changed the labels.lua file to just display a small dot for all the ground targets and got rid of all of the naming convention, etc. You still know where they are but without all of the extra info.

 

Good idea! I did that too. In case anyone is interested:

 

GroundFormat = {}

GroundFormat[5000] = "`"

GroundFormat[10000] = "`"

GroundFormat[20000] = "`"

 

I've also did that for weapon format.

[leafer]

GroundFormat[5000] = "-->LOOSER<--"

GroundFormat[10000] = "shoot him first -->"

GroundFormat[20000] = "I no speaky English"

 

:D

Edited February 20, 2011 by leafer

[effte]

It's both ways. Normal visual acuity means you are able to see better in real life than on any monitor. Maximum zoom is getting close on my 1920 screen I think, but then your FOV is severely limited instead.

 

OTOH, in real life, if something is hidden in a forest or on a forest road, you have to be real lucky to find it, as in fly right over it and happen to look down just as it is visible. That's where the IR optics come in handy.

 

One thing is lacking in DCS though - dust trails. I fly fire watch missions in real life, and while you can generally tell by the colour of the smoke it is hard to be certain, so I've checked out countless off-road bikes, cars etc. That combine harvesters and plows leave a pretty significant visual mark goes without saying... :)

 

Obviously this is when the terrain is dry. When it is not, tracked vehicles leave pretty visible track marks though. You'd be able to follow the activity on the ground by looking at the tracks made.

[con3para]

i like the dust and track trails ..that would help a great deal with out spoiling the game play to much ..can it be done ..lol..

ill ask my F18 and A6 drivers friends , IF its easy to spot targets ..in the real deal

[nomdeplume]

The game does have dust trails for ground vehicles when they're moving off-road. They don't last a long time but they do make vehicles moving off-road very easy to spot.

[effte]

Hmmm... is this configurable somehow, as I have not seen them?

 

In real life, in dry weather, a vehicle moving on a gravel road will have a 500-foot plume lingering overhead for a long time. Much less if out in vegetation, of course.

[Phrenesis]

I changed the labels.lua file to just display a small dot for all the ground targets and got rid of all of the naming convention, etc. You still know where they are but without all of the extra info.

Is there a way to give all the dots the same color so you cant tell if they're friend or foe?

[nomdeplume]

Hmmm... is this configurable somehow, as I have not seen them?

 

I don't know. Might be related to graphic quality settings.

 

Edit: I've tried changing everything to low but still get the dust trails.

 

Attached are some screenshots (altitude in the info bar is in meters). As I said, they're not huge, but they're fairly easy to see, especially when they're moving. Even in the static screenshot it's easy to pick up the tank, but I bet you can't see the Shilkas..!

 

The last image is probably very hard to see the dust in a screenshot, but I could see it fairly well in-game. It was flickering a bit though, it's right at the edge of how far it wants to draw it. Don't know if I'd see if it I wasn't looking for it, but if it was a whole column I think it'd stand out.

Edited February 20, 2011 by nomdeplume

[infraslove]

Is there a way to give all the dots the same color so you cant tell if they're friend or foe?

 

Yes on the bottom of the lua file

 

ColorAliesSide = {255, 0, 0}

ColorEnemiesSide = {0, 0, 255}

 

to:

 

ColorAliesSide = {255, 0, 0}

ColorEnemiesSide = {255, 0, 0}

 

all red (havent tested this but it should work).

[Phrenesis]

Yes on the bottom of the lua file

 

ColorAliesSide = {255, 0, 0}

ColorEnemiesSide = {0, 0, 255}

 

to:

 

ColorAliesSide = {255, 0, 0}

ColorEnemiesSide = {255, 0, 0}

 

all red (havent tested this but it should work).

Cool, thanks

[GGTharos]

Wrong actually - at least when the vehicle is not moving and parked where it's camo matches....under those circumstances, it might be under 1nm before you detect it in RL.

 

If you already know where to look, you might be able to spot it from farther out, but in general, a non-moving vehicle sitting around with the correct camo is your basic reason for having an IIR camera on the TGP.

 

Hey guys,

 

I find it really hard to spot targets in DCS: A-10C Warthog unless they are within like 2nm. I feel this is because it is of course a simulator, and cannot display as high of resolution as real life can. Would I be correct in saying that you can spot tanks further away in real life than you can in DCS?

 

But on the other hand, in real life there is stuff like grass, brush, trees, dust, etc...

 

So what do you guys think?

[winz]

If you already know where to look, you might be able to spot it from farther out, but in general, a non-moving vehicle sitting around with the correct camo is your basic reason for having an IIR camera on the TGP.

yes, spotting targer irl is hard, but there are obstructions here caused by the sim/hw limitation.

Pixel size, limited color range, basic light refraction, no lods irl, limited world complexity, the way human eye reacts on moving objects, limited comunication (air defence targe 1 o'clock, and that's it), no secondary marking (tracks in mud, according to a10 over kosovo clearly vissible from up-high)

 

You don't have to be military pilot to notice that targets on roads are much more clealy vissible irl than in sim. And according to A10 over kosovo, spoting target on roads isn't that hard.

 

edit: the second part of the problem is general mission design. You can come back with full stores if you don't spot anything irl. Where in sim you are stuck on the same mission until you destroy everything the mission designer though should be destroyed.

Edited February 20, 2011 by winz

[SmokeyTheLung]

Next time you folks fly commercial, on final approach, try spotting cars and people, the former being a lot easier. To make it a little more difficult make sure you are not just identifying a "car" but instead make and model. People, for me, are very difficult to spot unless they arevery close.

Whenever I play the spotting "game" irl I'm reminded how easy it is to spot targets in the DCS universe. Mind you I'm using a 42" LCD TV...

[Weaponz248]

Use JTAC and Mission planner accordingly. IRL if you are sent up to kill a factory you would be given exact coords for said factory. Also if you were sent up on a CAS you would have contact with JTAC so they will vector you in. Also if you know the general area of the TGT you can start the TGP out wider and zoom in until you can get a good visual.

 

I actually dont think its that hard to spot in DCS. I thought it was going to be but I said screw it a will leave labels off and I havent had an issue yet. Like GG said use the BHOT/WHOT modes of the TGP and stuff just stands out!

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

In a (very) recent use of military by NATO countries, more then 20 000 sorties were flown and 17 confirmed mobile targets (tanks, APC, etc...) were destroyed. The other side exercised very high discipline in masking positions and vehicles and used many, many decoys (electric heaters in junk yard cars, microwave ovens, models made of playwood, junk yard cars with pipes through winshild and etc ...) to full the attackers.

 

Not all 20 000 sorties were SEAD, but in real life, it is very difficult to spot mobile military ground targets.

[RIFLE_JTAC_TRAINING]

Real time technique to finding targets is altering from BLACK HOT to WHITE HOT. This method allows you to better make out shapes in this game, especially soft skin and armored vehicles. In real time this is helpful for humans in tree lines or against the back drop of hot objects.

 

63

[rkracht01]

Can you walk me through the process of editing the lua file(s) to remove labels but leave dots for both ground and air targets?

[Kellerman]

what .lua i need to configure for see the ground targets from more distance ?

[159th_Viper]

what .lua i need to configure for see the ground targets from more distance ?

 

Might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that's hard-coded to prevent exploits.

[docehrenhoefer]

Try changing labels.lua,

 

e.g. when there is:

GroundFormat = {}

GroundFormat[5000] = "`"

GroundFormat[10000] = "`"

GroundFormat[20000] = "`"

Change to

GroundFormat = {}

GroundFormat[10000] = "`"

GroundFormat[20000] = "`"

GroundFormat[40000] = "`"

This doubling the distance of the ground objects to be seen - that is, to be labeled. The distance in the TGP seems to be limited to 20 miles - with luck, normally less.

[Kellerman]

this is for the labels ? i play without labels

 

i want to change the distance for see "the black dot" for example for a tank on the middle of field.

[Haukka81]

this is for the labels ? i play without labels

 

i want to change the distance for see "the black dot" for example for a tank on the middle of field.

 

 

hard-coded to prevent exploits.