AGM-65 questions

[TAIPAN_]

I'm setting up some saved loadouts for day and night various roles etc. Obviously AGM-65D is best for night, but for daytime it's not clear.

 

For daytime operations with moving targets - should I prefer the AGM-65D or the AGM-65H?

 

One being infrared, one being optical, I know this but now we have the targeting pod it seems that the IR advantage of being able to find targets easier is not so important.

 

Is the range the same or is one farther than the other?

 

For the larger mavs, are they really worth the extra weight if we're not trying to hit a bunker or something? i.e. Does the AGM-65ks extra heavy blast radius do more damage to surrounding units than the AGM-65H?

[Sinky]

Wouldn't the AGM-65H have a harder time locking up a target in a very dark green field? Don't know if you've noticed but on the darker terrain you can barley see the vehicle in daylight with the H model, that tells me the seeker would have some trouble.

 

I usually carry two of each, keeping the D's for the most dangerous targets.

 

Edit: Also, the cloud shadows may effect the H's seeker but don't quote me on that, haven't tested it.

[TAIPAN_]

So the D locks easier?

What carry the H at all then?

[docehrenhoefer]

I personally see no advantage in using the H at all. The D-Version seems to get a lock further away, under night and day conditions so I only use the D.

[Sinky]

Everything I have said is in theory, in my experience you can spot targets better with the H in some instances, it seems to have a higher resolution than the D for me at least. Try it yourself and you might realise there's a time and a place for each one.

 

I run 256 resolution on the MFD's btw.

 

You might be better off taking only D's because I guess you use the TGP to find the targets. I don't always carry the TGP so I can see the advantages of each seeker head. Just remember everything I've said is based on using the mav to seek out and lock targets, no TGP at all.

Edited February 28, 2011 by Sinky

[Ryrrar]

Gotta remember that DCS pretty much offers every type of weapon that the A-10charlie carries, so they offer the H model maverick.

 

In real life, the H model is much cheaper than the D, so the A-10 would carry the D as a money saver (especially when mav's cost a couple 100 grand a piece).

 

I assume this would be the reason that you mainly see A-10s with only 1, maybe 2, mavericks at a time (2 is kind of the max on a pod anyway, being that the inboard one would usually be left vacant).

 

Just my .02

[Sinky]

I thought I would take a screen shot to illustrate my spotting statement between the two seekers. Both taken at the same range using active pause, don't know about you but I find it easier to spot them on the H model at this range.

 

The D model would still obtain a lock earlier than the H model though, I should think.

Edited February 28, 2011 by Sinky

[mic1184]

[...]

For the larger mavs, are they really worth the extra weight if we're not trying to hit a bunker or something? i.e. Does the AGM-65ks extra heavy blast radius do more damage to surrounding units than the AGM-65H?

 

For armored targets you should use D/H as they have an armor-piecing shaped charge warhead.

The bigger warheads are penetrators and are used, as you suggested, for bunkers or structures, but also ships.

 

And yes, they do more area damage, but you wouldn't use a maverick just for troops or soft targets. There may be rare exceptions of course (high priority soft targets that can't be hit with bombs).

 

Sinky and Ryrarr both made the correct statements about the CCD vs IR seekers (cost/resolution). On day missions in clear weather I usually carry 2 D's and 2 H's. I never fly without the TGP so usually the H's kinda did the job so far for me. Sinky's screenshots give you an idea of the difference of resolution, with a moving picture the difference is bigger i think.

[Heli Shed]

The D will not neccessarily lock before 'H' models.

 

The D Models rely upon a significant heat signature to be bigger, in relation to the background of the specific target, for it to obtain lock. This clearly depends on several factors:

 

1. Your Altitiude

2. Your aircraft attitude

3. TOD - Time Of Day

4. TOT - Type Of Target

5. Meteorogical Conditions

 

In otherwords, just because you can obtain a lock on a 5th Gen MBT (T80 for ex) at 15000ft for 7km on a clear day, doesn't mean that you can obtain a lock on a self propelled SAM platform at the same alt and distance. Self propelled SAM's have much better IR protection than most MBT's by virtue of the fact that this 'IS' it's defence, where as the MBT uses a combination of factors for its defense, namely: Mobility, Survivability, Firepower and Armour. You have a better chance of locking onto a Shilka for example at a further range with an H than you are with a D.

 

In conclusion, it is not a question of which is 'better than the other'. Both have their advantages and disadvantages, and there is no 'universal' solution to aid in the decision of 'which one should i use'. They compliment each other and give you the pilot, the most choice for selection in accordance with the conditions.

 

Try using an AGM65H at night?

[Sinky]

Looks like most people carry two of each.

 

As stated earlier I keep my D's for SAM threats because of the increased lock range which increases my stand-off and use my H's on tanks and zeus's. My personal preference is to only carry the TGP when hauling GBU's, keeps my Mk1 sharp.

 

Tyger: I never stated using the H at night, I was under the impression this thread was talking about day time. 99% of the time in daylight conditions the D will obtain a lock sooner than the H for me, but the difference is so small it only matters for me when I go up against a SAM threat.

 

Are you able to replicate the IR protection in-game? I have yet to experience this, might give it a thorough test later though.

Edited February 28, 2011 by Sinky

[mic1184]

Looks like most people carry two of each.

 

As stated earlier I keep my D's for SAM threats because of the increased lock range which increases my stand-off and use my H's on tanks and zeus's. My personal preference is to only carry the TGP when hauling GBU's, keeps my Mk1 sharp.

 

i respect your personal preference. For me it's not a question eye vs TGP. I still need the best out of my eyes even with the TGP in many cases. I don't see any reason for not carrying the TGP apart from some machismo ;-)

 

in a war environment i do not feel motivation to ditch anything that helps me to prevail because of some sportsmanship, really. Only thing to restrict me should be Geneva

[Sinky]

i respect your personal preference. For me it's not a question eye vs TGP. I still need the best out of my eyes even with the TGP in many cases. I don't see any reason for not carrying the TGP apart from some machismo ;-)

 

in a war environment i do not feel motivation to ditch anything that helps me to prevail because of some sportsmanship, really. Only thing to restrict me should be Geneva

 

Each to their own mate :). I think it might stem from the fact I strictly only flew the A-Frog in FC & FC2.

 

Obviously if I know I will be up against some serious threats then I will take a TGP. In training I find it helps to keep my eye sharp so even if I'm using the TGP I have a good chance of spotting a strela or shilka at the last minute that I missed with the TGP. Hopefully you can see where I'm coming from.

[Kenan]

^^Ok. Sinky we understand why you don't carry TGP. It's because you're a masohist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:D

[Sinky]

^^Ok. Sinky we understand why you don't carry TGP. It's because you're a masohist.

 

:D

 

Haha.

 

Best reason to carry H's in the day time is the ability to use force correlate.

[robmlufc]

Remember that a Maverick is a pretty expensive piece of kit, carrying 6 is an expensive load! Its much more cost effective to drop a bomb on a tank when there is no AA threat. Its a shame in missions you cant limit the amount of weapons, I liked that in the F4 campaigns.

[Eddie]

Haha.

 

Best reason to carry H's in the day time is the ability to use force correlate.

 

 

Not for long. The AGM-65H should not have FC mode, this will be fixed in the patch. ;)

[Sinky]

Not for long. The AGM-65H should not have FC mode, this will be fixed in the patch. ;)

 

Gah, which model should have it?

[Eddie]

Gah, which model should have it?

 

D, G & K.

[Lonecrow66]

What I'd like to know is how the heck do you identify targets? I mean even with the TGP you need to be pretty much right on them and even then the resolution is pretty crappy.

 

But you order your wingman to take out air defenses and he locks on right away and makes his runs..

 

This is the part of the sim that makes it hard not having human eyes.

 

I mean EW radar is easy to spot.. some things are. You can tell tanks pretty easy but some other things are very difficult unless you are already inside their shooting range.

 

JTAC will tell you there are air defenses nearby but never really a good indication of where they are.

 

So using labels is really the only key and you still need to get close enough to see them.

 

I wish you could toggle labels on and off as needed in the game.

[winz]

I wish you could toggle labels on and off as needed in the game.

You can, enable them and options and then lshift + f10 toggles them on/off

[twig05]

I wish you could toggle labels on and off as needed in the game.

 

I have started using VAC which allows me to use voice commands for key presses. I have "Labels ON" and "Labels OFF" implemented which helps A LOT, along with all of my radio commands and zoom commands. Best $25 I have spent on this sim!

[Wayc00lio]

I mean even with the TGP you need to be pretty much right on them and even then the resolution is pretty crappy.

 

I can ID targets fairly far away with the TGP, Zoom it in in EXP mode and you should be able to see them with no prob.

[mic1184]

I can ID targets fairly far away with the TGP, Zoom it in in EXP mode and you should be able to see them with no prob.

 

if you switched to EXP and then zoom it further with DMS up you can identify targets really well from really far away

[Wayc00lio]

if you switched to EXP and then zoom it further with DMS up you can identify targets really well from really far away

 

Isn't that exactly what I just wrote?

[Andrei]

That is where you generally know where your targets are. The other day I was doing a mission which required taking out a single SA-8.

 

The coordinates were provided, but those were at the center of some fairly large town. And the bugger was hiding in the surrounding hills. It took me ~30 minutes of circling around it and dodging some missiles in order to pinpoint the location by the smoke trail.

 

And then the damn MAV locked only ~7.8 miles away which was effectively in Gecko's shooting range. Wish I had FC model back then. Killed the bugger in the end, but that was one of the most royal pain in the arse kills ever.

 

I wish there was some kind of compromise between labels and no labels. Without them it's pretty hard, with them it's all too easy :( I remember there was some .config file for modifying those in FC or BS where you'd see only bright pixel at ~10 miles instead of full label. Does this exist for A-10 as well?