What about a DCS:BS patch?

flanker0ne · March 12, 2011

We are a little upset because after A-10C ED announced another USA fixed-wing plane!:furious::spam_laser:

The thread where is told "we have the information for the AH-64A Block 49" give' us (at least for me) a lot of confidence that the next module is the Apache Attack Helicopter.

So all our hopes and dreams goes to the Black Shark Module :cry:

Edited March 12, 2011 by flanker0ne

isoul · March 12, 2011

The point I'm making is that the simulation engine (of which the AI is a part) will be constantly be upgraded and improved for years to come. While someone's specific pet bug may not have been addressed in a particular patch does not mean to say it won't be fixed.

You seem upset that ED has moved on to another product, the fruit of which you will see, for free, in Black shark. There are economic realities to deal with here too. Wages have to be paid, perpetually patching Black shark does not do this. However they have found a Model that will achieve this and get an income steam.

ED could very well have left BS as it is, but continue to support it in a financially viable way.

Nate

Nate, perhaps you didn't got my point correctly. Let us not particularize the patch matter to one bug or another. The point is not if the bug that annoys me most is addressed or not. The point is that BS and DCS series has some issues and there was totally no action for several months right now. Even the announcement that was made didn't include a word about the BS.

No, I am not upset that ED moved on to another product. Thats good and promising overall. You mention that ED will continue to support BS choosing some viable financial model (meaning it will pump out cash from the sale of Warthog so it can pay the wages of the support team). Beware, though, that this "strategic choice" may prove to have some negative impact on the DCS audience in the long term. What I mean?

I own BS and I really like it. Still I expect its flaws to be corrected in some reasonable time. I was planning to buy Warthog at release but since I saw that the BS patching is done every now and then (for whatever reason) I am reluctant and prefer to wait 'till I see that the Warthog state is quite good. The Warthog is being released, after a long beta, with issues while the BS issues weren't addressed. I decide to buy Warthog after these issues are addressed. In the meanwhile I have the BS which has its own issues that I hope they will be addressed with a compatibility patch which will come AFTER Warthog's issues are solved...

In this time I believe that DCS series will lose some part of it's audience. Sometimes the "strategic choices" a company is making can harm the community and the title's reputation which will have a negative impact on sales. Still, having some info about an upcoming patch for BS would cost nothing and would keep the interest high.

It wouldn't harm ED to include a few lines about the BS so its audience (that they are potential A-10C buyers) won't lose their interest. Check what other companies that release titles of the same series every now and then do to ensure their community's commitment to the title.

The best solution to me is to have a small portion of a company's dev team dedicated to support while the rest are commited to developing new products. Many companies do that and its financially more viable, even though supporting an old product doesn't gain you any direct profit, rather than setting full focus on development and then shift to support and vice versa. If ED can't do that they must consider if their business model will be viable in the long term.

If ED left BS, the first module of the DCS series, as is then it would be the biggest mistake a company could do. This would vastly harm DCS reputation and potential sales. To me this is not considered an option but a "killing-blow" to the series as a whole.

PS : Excuse me for the long post. I just wanted to point out "potential dangers" to the DCS audience deriving from the decisions ED makes. I may prove to be wrong but a fact that maybe alarming to ED is that a lot of people seems to agree with my posts. Surprisingly, almost half the forum rep I got right now came from this thread. I think there are a lot of BS funs feeling the same way I do.

Edited March 12, 2011 by isoul

KeyCat · March 12, 2011

The thread where is told "we have the information for the AH-64A Block 49" give' us (at least for me) a lot of confidence that the next module is the Apache Attack Helicopter.

I'm a rotor head like you are and would love to see the AH-64A next but for some reason ED chosed otherwise, it's their choice and I fully respect that.

We can just hope for the best and show some patience and eventually we will be able to buy the AH-64A someday.

/KC

sobek · March 12, 2011

Nate, perhaps you didn't got my point correctly. Let us not particularize the patch matter to one bug or another. The point is not if the bug that annoys me most is addressed or not. The point is that BS and DCS series has some issues and there was totally no action for several months right now. Even the announcement that was made didn't include a word about the BS.

What do you mean, there is no action? Are you still not aware that BS will benefit from WH development? For free? Is this so hard to fathom? I don't see your point.

isoul · March 12, 2011

What do you mean, there is no action? Are you still not aware that BS will benefit from WH development? For free? Is this so hard to fathom? I don't see your point.

Let me further explain myself. It may be tiring to say the same thing over and over again but I will gladly do it in order to let devs, forum mods or whoever cares to be "in the shoes" of a customer.

I am aware of the fact that BS will benefit from WH development. There will be some new features implemented in BS from WH when a compatibility patch is released. HDR, Low Altitude Clutter, new & improved AI units etc... I am more than glad about these. Still there is a little "but" somewhere...

So, what about existing issues? Till now (10 months since 1.0.2) BS users didn't see any actual benefit from the development of the WH. Sure there will be benefit but this will come after the compatibility patch is out which, in turn, will come after the urgent WH issues are solved which, in turn, will come after we have waited for 10 months already! Even when the compatibility patch will be out no one can guarantee that there will be fixes coming along. It may only add some new features to the existing BS in order to be compatible with the WH. Who knows? No one even bothered to include some info, which would cost nothing, about plans on patching the BS. If there was something going on concerning the issue BS has, ED could include it in an announcement so we would be aware of it. So, till present day, we 've seen or heard of no patch fixing any issue. An action you have seen not and you haven't heard about is equal to no action.

What more do you expect to happen for us to lose interest? Is that so hard to fathom?

And one last thing concerning the "BS benefiting for free" matter... Carrying over some features from WH to the BS for free is a little sacrifice every company, that is developing a successful game series (different interoperable game titles, like the DCS series) should do in order to "earn" a dedicated online community. Doing so will ensure that the DCS community will have a strong interest on the series for many years to come. This, in turn, means that DCS series and ED will equally benefit from such action.

Keeping your customers happy in order to keep them interested on your product isn't some kind of favor... its a way to run a successful business.

PS : Sorry if I seem to be somewhat harsh to ED, I really respect them, but since some of you don't get my point I have to explain what I feel & think with more "crude" words.

Edited March 12, 2011 by isoul

bengo · March 12, 2011

If ED's business model would be what you want it to be, we'd have to pay 5 times as much for BS as what we did. This is not some "narrow" programming like first person shooters or console-content. What you ask is not economically survivable for a 40 or 50$ simulator. They can't afford to have no income for a couple of years, while a small army of programmers need to be paid to iron out all the little bugs.

And you're wrong about getting the BS-update for free. I don't see no free updates of f.e. Call of Duty series, MSFS. Every new version is to be paid, in full.

Look at FS9 : it got one patch, that was it. Then they went to work on FSX for a couple of years, which you had to pay almost twice as much as BS. And the winds (and some other stuff) are still broken in that one. And MS is a giant company, compared to ED.

I'm not seeing any real showstoppers in BS as it is. True, there are some details that need attention, but that's what they are to me : details.

You're getting a free "upgrade" for BS, and still you're not happy.

I rather see ED do their business as they do, and bring us a new ac from time to time and upgrade the older stuff too.

Because.....what alternative do we have ?

sobek · March 12, 2011

What more do you expect to happen for us to lose interest? Is that so hard to fathom?

To blame ED for you losing interest in BS is a bit much, don't you think? You have already got a full sim for 50 bucks and get the updates for free. And actually you go forth and state that ED owe you more content and free stuff. Now show me one industry leading developer that would work these kinds of hours for free.

Instead of always demanding people see the problem from your perspective, maybe you should actually go ahead and step out of your shoes once in a while. You might discover that for being given 3 inches already, you are taking 10 miles.

ben1101 · March 12, 2011

Look, I bought A:10 for two reasons.

1. So that the company has a little bit more revenue to put into their products and eventually

2. Bring BS up to compatibly with A:10

And also, because its a challenge even though I don't fancy fixed wing machines too much :)

Conure · March 12, 2011

Some of you are forgetting that ultimately ED are a business. For better or worse, they have limited resources and because of that, of course they're going to focus on a new product. There is no revenue in fixing a few bugs that exist for a 2 (3?) year old product, however the A10 compatibility is a great gesture, and goes a long way toward showing that they still care about their previous work.

I think some of you are looking at things without considering the business aims of ED, which is, just as every other business on this earth, to make money!

KeyCat · March 13, 2011

There is no revenue in fixing a few bugs that exist for a 2 (3?) year old product, however the A10 compatibility is a great gesture, and goes a long way toward showing that they still care about their previous work.

Gesture? I thought compability between different modules was the whole idea with this DCS-series, at least thats was stated in the info given.

Regarding when the BS patch arrives I'm sure it will be released when ready. I rather wait than have new bugs/issues introduced.

/KC

Conure · March 13, 2011

Gesture? I thought compability between different modules was the whole idea with this DCS-series, at least thats was stated in the info given.

Regarding when the BS patch arrives I'm sure it will be released when ready. I rather wait than have new bugs/issues introduced.

/KC

ED know we'd all buy their next product whether or not it was compatible!

KeyCat · March 13, 2011

ED know we'd all buy their next product whether or not it was compatible!

Sorry mate, not me! I'm in this for the combined op's multiplayer so if each DCS-module will fly around in separate 3D-worlds I would be quite disappointed.

/KC

Conure · March 13, 2011

Sorry mate, not me! I'm in this for the combined op's multiplayer so if each DCS-module will fly around in separate 3D-worlds I would be quite disappointed.

/KC

yeah to be fair I would be too. If the KA50 was an AH64 and the next module was an F15/F16/FA/18 we'd be in coop heaven...

Coordinated fixed wing and rotor cas with top cover to DCS standard...Mmmm

Would be great to have some KA50s to shoot at too :D

gonk · March 13, 2011

ED know we'd all buy their next product whether or not it was compatible!

Me either....

If this is what is going to happen... no support because there business model says so.... sack the accountant and use his pay to patch the games..

I am also playing A10..(and waiting for patches..I hope) but was also hoping BS was fixed... I will not be moving on to another game if the support for is this appalling.

Yes I might be just one person... statistics state I will tell another 12 ppl... or you might write me off as a whinging gamer... but again only 1 in 25 ppl will tell you that you have a problem.. the other 24 will just walk... so you should appreciate the feedback... good and bad.

good luck...

martinistripes · March 13, 2011

I see this from both sides. And there's a difference between asking politely and nagging. I think we've asked politely and ED understand. BS players are unhappy because there's no patch and (possibly more importantly) no news. Nagging will just p*** ED off and make the work more labour than love. Lets face it, better if they love their work. Right?

I still haven't played through BS yet because I'm not content that it's at it's best. When I do start the campaign, I want it to be in all it's glory, polished and complete. It's frustrating knowing that it got sooo close to where it needed to be and then got put on the shelf for the obvious...

I will buy A-10C (when it's released on disc) if only to support the project, but at the moment can't help feeling like I had the door slammed in my face when the Warthog was announced. Because, as people have said already, there's been nothing for us.

Black Shark players should be commended on their patience. And I'm surprised BS patching threads haven't surfaced more often. We have the near perfect simulator within grasp but a few small niggles are spoiling the broth.

I'm not sure there's anymore that can be said on this topic and I'm sure ED now know how we feel. ...Time for some more waiting. :noexpression:

Boberro · March 13, 2011

Gesture? I thought compability between different modules was the whole idea with this DCS-series, at least thats was stated in the info given.

Regarding when the BS patch arrives I'm sure it will be released when ready. I rather wait than have new bugs/issues introduced.

/KC

Yes it was and it IS idea of DCS series. I can't imagine playing DCS without compatibility patch...

Fortunately the patch will be on time :)

ED know we'd all buy their next product whether or not it was compatible!

I don't think so :D

sobek · March 13, 2011

I still haven't played through BS yet because I'm not content that it's at it's best. When I do start the campaign, I want it to be in all it's glory, polished and complete. It's frustrating knowing that it got sooo close to where it needed to be and then got put on the shelf for the obvious...

IMHO this is not a good thing to do. You have to realise that the reality of software engineering is that some features will always be bugged or not perfect, because it just can't be helped.

It's the same with computer hardware. If you keep waiting for the fastest machine, you won't ever be playing because there's always something new on the horizon. Better adjust your expectations a little and be positively surprised than always expect a perfect sim that will never come into being.

isoul · March 13, 2011

@sobek: My friend I didn't say that ED is making me lose my interest on DCS neither I said that ED owes me any additional features. Losing interest on something is a personal preference and I would gladly pay for any additional features implemented.

I said that ED, the way it is choosing to act, doesn't help us not to lose interest. If you read my posts carefully you 'll see that I am not insisting in a patch released ASAP. Instead, an announcement stating that there is work being done and that some fixes are on the way along with the upcoming compatibility patch would be, at this point, almost as good as a patch!

I am sending you some companies that are developing PC entertainment titles in a form of interoperable series(in PM), since I feel comparing different companies or products doesn't add anything to the thread nor I think that posting a list here would interest BS funs. I would just like to mention, answering to @bengo in the same time, that Call of Duty, BattleField, Total War, Flight Simulator or similar series of titles are series of the same franchise but not a interoperable titles of the same series (like DCS).

Concluding, I 've just requested fixing already implemented features and if this is not possible at the time, an announcement including some info for us (the BS users) would be great aswell. Additionally I would kindly request that you answer/argue on things I 've wrote, not things that you though I 've wrote, since misunderstanding things I want to say seems a rather strong possibility.

The matter seems depleted to me. I think I 've posted what I felt it needed to be posted and I explained my self several times. Continuing posting here, for my part, would just derail the thread and probably harm the purpose of it.

Edited March 13, 2011 by isoul

March 13, 2011

At least bring over the multi core updates, I mean BS is lagging bad over cities.

Isegrim · March 13, 2011

@ 213

I Think that was already done with the 1.02 Patch.

martinistripes · March 13, 2011

IMHO this is not a good thing to do. You have to realise that the reality of software engineering is that some features will always be bugged or not perfect, because it just can't be helped.

Ahh! But we know how capable the guys at ED are and the things currently niggling us with BS are well within their scope to fix. Except maybe the AI, which I've no doubt is a highly complex issue that will be honed over the years.

You will probably find by the very nature of the product ED is selling, a large portion of their fan base are thorough, methodical types that scrutinise everything. A hard crowd to please as we can see. :D

sobek · March 13, 2011

You will probably find by the very nature of the product ED is selling, a large portion of their fan base are thorough, methodical types that scrutinise everything. A hard crowd to please as we can see. :D

I've been around long enough. ;)

March 17, 2011

@ 213
I Think that was already done with the 1.02 Patch.

i'm sure there's further optimization done, otherwise a10 would certainly lag worse, and that's not the report i've been getting.

Isegrim · March 17, 2011

I think its exactly the answer you should get for this question.

>>>> or what exactly would you get for answer????

March 18, 2011

what are you even talking about? no offensive, but that's incoherent.

Sign In

What about a DCS:BS patch?

Recommended Posts

flanker0ne

isoul

KeyCat

sobek

isoul

bengo

sobek

ben1101

Conure

KeyCat

Conure

KeyCat

Conure

gonk

martinistripes

Boberro

sobek

isoul

213

Isegrim

martinistripes

sobek

213

Isegrim

213

Recently Browsing 0 members