Does the TGP helps in A-A combat?

[kobac]

I haven't noticed at all, that the TGP in A-A mode could help in air combat, and you?

Even if I'm lucky and find a target and I manage to lock, no benefit from it. In TGP A-A mode, locked target can't be set as SPI, a sidewinder infrared head can slew to the TGP LOS (China Hat FWD Long), but at HUD no indication in which direction is the TGP diamond/target, in case that target get out of sight which is, in my opinion, the biggest drawback.

 

Is it that in the real A-10C?

Edited April 14, 2011 by kobac

[STP Dragon]

Same isue here!

The TGP indicator is missing in the HUD. I don't know if this is realistic or not.

[nomdeplume]

Yeah the lack of a HUD indicator for the TGP's LOS is annoying. I don't really do air-to-air combat much in the A-10, but the main advantage the TGP's A-A mode has is that it can a) see further than you can and b) marks any possible targets with a + symbol on the TGP. I think with practice it would be quite easy to use it to identify and lock targets with it.

 

On the other hand, by the time you're in range to use your weapons, you should have your head on a swivel and not looking at the TGP screen, so it'd no longer be all that much use IMO.

 

It mostly seems helpful to me in the pre-engagement role - while you're far enough away that the target isn't actively threatening you. Its automatic detection of possible targets makes it easier to lock up that stray helo, and it can keep your sidewinder's seeker centered on it as you approach (the uncaged seeker tends to drift when you maneuver). It also gives you a nice close-in view of the target so you can tell if it's reacting to your presence.

Edited April 14, 2011 by nomdeplume

[159th_Viper]

The TGP indicator is missing in the HUD. I don't know if this is realistic or not.

 

Realistic.

 

 

....Even if I'm lucky and find a target and I manage to lock, no benefit from it....

 

When target is being tracked, TGP tells you exactly where the target is at all times - no need to maintain visual: The TGP is your eyes. When ready, all you need to do is turn nose-on, identify and Fox-Two.

 

How can you say there's no benefit?

 

 

SA cue is your friend - use it:

 

 

Edited April 14, 2011 by 159th_Viper

[sungsam]

In my opinion, there is no significant usage of TGP AA mode on A10c other than maintaining SA for hostile A/Cs as Viper describes. The reason is A10c is only capable of delivering short range AA missiles. AA TGP is more useful in mid-range to long BVR techniques, where tracking and ambushing hostiles without radar warning is desired.

[GGTharos]

Nope. AA TGP is useful for BVR identification, where BVR is >5nm.

 

AA TGP is more useful in mid-range to long BVR techniques, where tracking and ambushing hostiles without radar warning is desired.

[kobac]

@159th Viper, thank you for your recommendation. To me is very hard to find enemy aircraft, even when I know where it comes from, and I tried with WHOT and BHOT. I would highly appreciate, if you wanted, to show (track) how do you working with TGP, for example, against the Su-25T (guns only).

 

Here's mine, not-so-successful DF . ;-)

Edited April 15, 2011 by kobac

[159th_Viper]

Your link does not work - Megaupload is bad like that. Upload to forum via attachments or try Mediafire :)

 

In any event, back on Topic: Herewith track illustrating an engagement. I splashed the Toad with a sidewinder - I do not like to get close to a Toad as you are always going to lose that fight, especially with a virtual pilot that knows the Toad.

 

Be that as it may, the track illustrates the principle well. I locate the Toad coming from my twelve (set depressible pipper to -41 degrees/TGP LOS, scan potential threat area) and initiate track once TGP spotted Toad (indicative of tracking cross). Once locked, I break left and descend to eliminate/decrease the chances of him spotting me first. Due to the closure rate I don't wait too long before turning back into the Toad, using the TGP SA cue to put my nose to target at his estimated Bearing and elevation, flanking him.

 

As per the track, I let him spot me and we merge. After a turn or two I deliberatively break the engagement and extend to get distance for a sidewinder kill. At this stage I have lost visual SA and as such would have had to break the engagement, run and hope like hell in ordinary circumstances.

 

I now however utilize the TGP again and engage, obtaining a firing solution by turning onto target with the TGP alone as I am blind. Visually acquire, Fox 2. Toad spoofs first, lock and Fox-2 again......Splash one.

 

Keep in mind that Toad was not armed with R-60's/73's. Engagement will obviously differ if so armed. Principle of tracking and engaging target with TGP however remains sound as illustrated.

 

Hope that helps a wee bit :)

 

Track: [ATTACH]50311[/ATTACH]

Edited April 15, 2011 by 159th_Viper
Linguistic Catastrophe.......

[Snoopy]

The thing we have to remember is the A-10 isn't an Air to Air fighter and until the early 1990s couldn't even carry AIM-9s. AIM-9s on and A-10 are primarily for helicopters. Most modern air to air or multi role fighters would have a lock and missle fired from a such a long range the A-10 wouldn't even know he was there (unless notified by radio of course).

[kobac]

Very nice track, it should put it on youtube. I hope that I will do so to master the use of R2D2 ;-) (Litening AT targeting pod).

Is it easier if Depressible Pipper first set nearly to the axis of the TGP LOS?

Edited April 15, 2011 by kobac

[159th_Viper]

Is it easier if Depressible Pipper first set nearly to the axis of the TGP LOS?

 

Yes.

 

By doing so you can search/track targets with TGP by flying the pipper onto the target as opposed to slewing the TGP.

[JCamel]

Just to add. If you have A-A mode selected on the HUD and the TGP is SOI and point locked you can use China Hat FWD Long to slew the seeker head on the HUD to the target providing it's on the HUD or within the head's slewable range. It mentions this in the manual but not the lessons. Useful if you're outside VR.

[Mohamengina]

Just use a/g mode instead. Works exactly the same except you get a nice box on your HUD to play around with.

[Weltensegler]

Exactly and then china aft short and it resets to the front so u can fly it in.

[Mohamengina]

Exactly and then china aft short and it resets to the front so u can fly it in.

 

I heard that's how you get to the secret cow level.

[Modulus]

In any event, back on Topic: Herewith track illustrating an engagement. I splashed the Toad with a sidewinder - I do not like to get close to a Toad as you are always going to lose that fight, especially with a virtual pilot that knows the Toad.

Track: [ATTACH]50311[/ATTACH]

 

 

Hmm, when I replay the track it ends with your crashing into the ground when you do your descending turn (using DCS A-10 1.1.1.1).

What can I do to get the track to replay correctly?

[159th_Viper]

Hmm, when I replay the track it ends with your crashing into the ground when you do your descending turn (using DCS A-10 1.1.1.1).

What can I do to get the track to replay correctly?

 

Here's a Youtube vid illustrating the principle against a Hog - watch in HD for indication of what is going on in cockpit if necessary:

 

-1I7_xyd6nk&hd=1

[WildBillKelsoe]

it surely does, specially in long range target acquisition. hook the TAD to SEAD target in AA/TGP mode, and watch the kill, or, if the SEAD gets roasted, finish the job. The RATES indicator is quite helpful.

 

Otherway is to use the HUD as SOI and slew all sensors to it, naturally, the TGP in A-A mode will help in locking on bandits at a known bearing/quadrant.

[MajorV]

Excellent explanation and diagram, Viper! Many thanks.

 

Major V