Blown Away by Realism

[Pilotasso]

I never heard of this game till this passed weekend when I saw it on Steam. Bought it because I haven't played a flight sim in a LONG time. This game was WAY better than I expected.

 

I must have spent 10 hrs alone on Training Missions and Free Flying Missions just to learn how everything works and I just now feel comfortable blowing things up. This game brings realism to another level and I haven't even learned everything it can do yet. On top of that the graphics are awesome! I look forward to my wife giving birth next month so I can stay home and take care of her, while at the same time dropping Guided Bombs from 20k feet. Thanks Eagle Dynamics!

 

Congrats for your newborn. :)

[RigorMortis]

Yeah I have a TrackIR 4... I invested in the CH Pro HOTAS / Rudder + TrackIR and dumped a good $500+ into that over five years ago, maybe six? Time flies.

 

Thing is I do 90% of my gaming these days on my laptop which sits on my kitchen counter so we'll see how well this works out. TrackIR at least will sit nicely on the top of my LCD.

 

Laptop is plenty powerful enough though: 17" 1080p, Core i7-2720QM, GTX 485m, 16GB DDR3, 120GB Intel X-25M G2 SSD + 750GB 7200RPM HDD.

 

Oh yeah, however @ OP - CONGRATS ON YOUR NEWBORN! Kids are the most challenging simulation of them all!

[mtuckner]

I had the T-Flight and out of the gate a button didn't work. Two more broke within a week, and I tossed it for the TM Warthog and couldn't be happier. T-Flight was crap.

[cichlidfan]

Mine still works after 5 years. Only issues are that one of the rotaries (which I don't really use anyway) goes quirky, and sometimes if the connector between the stick and the throttle gets loose it will blue-screen the computer (this is rare since I hold the connections firmly in place with duck tape).

 

Just a quick note about that cable between the stick and throttle. You can replace it, when needed, with a male-to-male ps2 cable like you would use for an old school kvm switch (mine came with a bad cable). Unfortunately, the shortest ones tend to be a bit long but the price is right.

[dunadan]

If you were 'Blown away' by the training missions, wait till you get to your first real live SA-19!

 

On the controller front, I was quite pleased with my Saitek X-52 until Santa dropped a Hotas Wartog on me. My advice, don't try the Warthog, not even once at a friend's house, don't even look at it too close, because once you do there is no going back!

[MTFDarkEagle]

My advice, don't try the Warthog, not even once at a friend's house, don't even look at it too close, because once you do there is no going back!

QFT!

[Nu-NRG]

My advice, don't try the Warthog, not even once at a friend's house, don't even look at it too close, because once you do there is no going back!

How true! Don't even look at the pictures or movies excessively.

[redtail]

you actually plan to fly this on your laptop sitting on your kitchen counter? i feel bad for you :)

 

this sim begs for a true sim setup, Hotas, rudders, TIR, multi monitors, and comfortable chair..lol. But if it works for you, great!

 

 

Very true statement about the HOTAS Warthog :) I don't think I could ever go back to a regular stick and keyboard commands for china hat forward long and the host of other commands! This stick is simply an amazing work of art. I sold my old Cougar to get this stick/throttle. The Warthog is what the Cougar should have been.

[RigorMortis]

you actually plan to fly this on your laptop sitting on your kitchen counter? i feel bad for you :)

 

this sim begs for a true sim setup, Hotas, rudders, TIR, multi monitors, and comfortable chair..lol. But if it works for you, great!

 

If I want to fly, it's my only option! Unless I let my kids run amok while I sit in my den.

[Ozz13]

Ooof...I'd never heard of the Warthog HOTAS. Just took a look at it..wow. Pretty.

[Frostiken]

Got a HOTAS Warthog? ....No? Add $500.00 :D

 

I'm gonna be the voice of dissent here and suggest you don't get the TM Warthog. The TM Warthog is an outstand bit of kit for DCS: Warthog - however, unless $500 is completely disposable for you, it's utterly illogical to get it.

 

See my rationale is this: the *entire point* of getting the Warthog is pure dedication to the A-10 simulation aspect. What this means is that for any other flight simulator, it's a total waste, since the entire reason you spent $500 was to mimic the A-10. If you're using it to fly an F-15 around, you're kind of missing the point. Is it worth spending all that money on a HOTAS controller that only actually fits one game? And if you're going to use it in other simulators or games (I use my CH Fighterstick for Mechwarrior: Living Legends), well, why the crap wouldn't you just buy a generic design HOTAS control, since the TM Warthog isn't going to fit anything else anyway?

 

I mean, let's say DCS: F/A-18 comes out.

 

1) Use your TM Warthog on it. The TM Warthog is, as far as the F-18 goes, a complete wash as it doesn't match any of the HOTAS controls.

2) Not have bought the TM Warthog and just use whatever your generic-designed HOTAS is on it. It doesn't match any of the F/A-18 controls either.

3) Spend another $500 on the 'Thrustmaster: Hornet'. That's some serious amount of cash, (if they even make one).

 

My (admittedly biased) advice is to go with CH Products. They have no frills, no stylish design, and you need some serious man-hands to use the setup... but the scripting software will serve you better in the long run (no other company offers anything even close to it in terms of flexibility), and the CH stuff has a serious reputation of reliability and durability.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Frostiken

[jeffyd123]

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Uh Oh...

[Frostiken]

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Uh Oh...

 

Heh :D Trust me, I was seriously on the fence about buying the TM Warthog but my logic beat me in the end. I mean, why spend $500 on something for one game which will then sit on a shelf and collect dust? And if I'm not using it to collect dust, why even buy an A-10 themed controller?

 

Ultimately the cool shit I can do with the CH Control Manager (like directional jump-jets in MWLL, control cycling, even axis curves are beyond some profiler software) will serve me well in the long run, since my current HOTAS setup, lack of split throttle aside, is 100% functional in the A-10.

 

 

In all honesty I'd probably buy the Warthog's throttle if it didn't have those useless control panels under it (and it was *just* the throttle), only because I could use a split throttle.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Frostiken

[Witchking]

I must add in a couple of cents here. The last I played LOMAC was when FC2 came out. I also bought DCS Black Shark at the same time on Direct2drive and tried playing it. DCS was an improvement on Lock on, but I never got into the whole chopped thing. My favourite aircraft (apart from the Su-27) in LOMAC is the HOG. I love it and probably spent atleast a 100hr just making simple missions to fool around and practice precision CCIP bombing on tanks. It was just awsome.

 

I must say, I am blown away from DCS A-10. I cannot even begin to thank the ED Team for making the decision to go with the A-10. What a big change. I mean it is sooo much more....WOW!!....feels real. I mean the inputs, the responsiveness of the hog. DAMNN!! Fantastic. I love it.

 

I have been doing the full ramp start training and navigation trainings. Did try to fool around to jump into the quick missions. MAN! I was lost. lol! Tried fooling around with the MFDs. Still couldn't do anything.

 

I am like 6h since I got this sim a few days ago and been just doing the tutorials and repeating them to familiarize myself with the cockpit.

 

But anyways...I must say...Thanks ED! Thanks for going with the A-10 and making this amazing sim. I LOVE IT. I love the A-10 and love DCS A-10. Totally worth the 60$ I paid for it.

 

Now Steam just has to fix the overlay for DCS A-10 and I can track how mch of my life I waste on DCS A-10. :p LOL!

 

cheers,

 

V

[Frostiken]

It took me about 10 fight hours (based on the logbook) before I felt totally comfortable, and even then I need help now and then...

 

On the plus side, that logbook is kinda neat. I didn't set my pilot to immortal, but whenever I'm flying 'for real', well, I take it more seriously. I'm proud to say that after 31 hours of flying, I have only one ejection and no deaths (the one ejection was from a catastrophically unfortunate bird strike during high winds that put my max-loaded A-10 into an unrecoverable roll towards a town.)

[EtherealN]

Yup, the TM Warthog Hotas is an absolute waste for all other simulators. Except the Stick is identical to F-16 and does have the paddle switch that was removed when that stick was adapted for the A-10C platform. And of course, you can use the stick without the Throttle quadrant, if you like.

 

Oh, and the throttle quadrant is "stolen" from the F-15E. Nice enough.

 

Now, in the specific example of a possible DCS: F/A 18... Yeah, the position of the hats and buttons isn't exactly the same (but that goes for CH too), and unfortunately it has one hat too much (horrible fate :P ). Ah well. Similar situation for the grips - we have one touch button too litte, but on the other hand the TM Warthog throttle has two "buttons" extra that more than make up for that (slew control depression and mic control depression are PC-specific). Position isn't exactly right, but almost.

 

All in all, the HOTAS is completely useless for pretty much everything. :P

Saying that it doesn't match any of the Hornet controls is just plain wrong - at least judging by the stick and throttle I'm looking at right now. ;) And sure, maybe you'll end up having to use some scripting, but to be honest I sort of doubt it. All of these things on my TM Hog maps just fine through Windows itself. (Including two-stage trigger.)

[RigorMortis]

Did I hear ... F/A-18? Super HORNET? (screams with glee like a middle school cheerleader). Golf clap golf clap golf clap.

[EtherealN]

This thread will NOT derail into yet another speculation bonanza about the next DCS product.

[Frostiken]

Oh, and the throttle quadrant is "stolen" from the F-15E. Nice enough.

I've actually been wondering about that, because the A-10 throttle grip doesn't match the ones in our F-15Es, even pre-SATCOM mod. Example, the 'china hat' is the weapon mode selection in the F-15, and is a toggle, whereas in the A-10 it defaults back to center when you let go.

 

Now, in the specific example of a possible DCS: F/A 18... Yeah, the position of the hats and buttons isn't exactly the same (but that goes for CH too), and unfortunately it has one hat too much (horrible fate :P ). Ah well. Similar situation for the grips - we have one touch button too litte, but on the other hand the TM Warthog throttle has two "buttons" extra that more than make up for that (slew control depression and mic control depression are PC-specific). Position isn't exactly right, but almost.

I'm not saying it can't be used, I'm saying 90% of the reason to fork out $500 for the TM Warthog is because it's specifically an A-10 HOTAS which I guarantee you is the main selling point for most people who are using it. To that end, that means it's 90% wasted money if you use it for any other aircraft. The TM Warthog has very little going for it to justify that pricetag besides its design. Are you telling me that if the TM Warthog were styled after some goddamn Area 51 bullshit like Saitek controllers are, it would be just as popular amongst DCS A-10 enthusiasts? I think not, because without the design, it's just another split-throttle dual-trigger HOTAS with average software.

 

The only real reason to spend a whopping $500 on the TM Warthog is its design. You're not going to get $500 worth of value out of the control panel switches to start a stop the APU. Hell, the only reason Thrustmaster even made it was because of DCS: A-10.

 

Let me put it this way: If the Warthog HOTAS didn't exist, what would you be using instead, how much money would you have saved, and how much would it have affected your ability to play the sim? I simply believe that buying a controller for the sex appeal that it matches the game you're playing is absurd, because that means it *won't* match the next game you play, so why buy it for that appeal? I'm only putting this here because I doubt most people have really thought about why they *really* want the TM Warthog.

 

Just saying. My advice? Avoid it and spend that money on a 2560x1600 monitor :)

Edited April 26, 2011 by Frostiken

[EtherealN]

I'm not saying it can't be used

 

Correct to a degree, what you said was:

 

See my rationale is this: the *entire point* of getting the Warthog is pure dedication to the A-10 simulation aspect. What this means is that for any other flight simulator, it's a total waste

 

My underscores. Those points are incorrect.

 

I'm saying 90% of the reason to fork out $500 for the TM Warthog is because it's specifically an A-10 HOTAS which I guarantee you is the main selling point for most people who are using it. To that end, that means it's 90% wasted money if you use it for any other aircraft.

 

Interesting speculation, I'm sure you have access to TM's market research data to back it up?

 

Also, you are commiting a fallacy with your numbers. Even if I were to grant that "90% of the reason [...] is because it's specifically an A-10 HOTAS", this does not mean that it is "90% wasted money if you use it for any other aircraft". In fact - very very far from it. For one thing, as I mentioned: the stick integrates perfectly with any simulation of the F-16, including a certain simulator that happens to be one of the most popular ones on the planet. Further, the only "problem" for use with an F/A 18 simulator (which was your example) as far as the stick goes is that it has a hat too much. This is not a problem any more than it's a "problem" for DCS A-10C that it has the paddle switch from the F-16. Indeed, for general usability it actually becomes a bonus.

 

Are you telling me that if the TM Warthog were styled after some goddamn Area 51 bullshit like Saitek controllers are, it would be just as popular amongst DCS A-10 enthusiasts?

 

No, I did not. But as you might have noticed: the Saitek controllers are actually very very popular anyhow. Indeed, the main reasons I upgraded from my x52 was that I had managed to crack the PS/2 connector and that it lacked desirable functionality (no split throttle, no start detent (applicable to F-15E, though the fingerlifts are of different style) too few hats). The fact that it happened to replicate the A-10C was of course a bonus, but so what? It still works superbly in FC2, DCS:BS, IL2:COD, Rise of Flight (which are the sims I have used it in so far). Indeed, that is also without ever installing the Target software for profiling. The stick has so many hats and buttons and slew controls and switches that I have yet to find myself in a situation where I really need profiling. (Although there are some functions in FC2 that are intriguing - specifically to use toggles like the boat and such things.)

 

I think not, because without the design, it's just another split-throttle dual-trigger HOTAS with mediocre software.

 

...with, so far, practically zero competition in that segment. There is of course the X64 and g940, but they are both pretty much just as expensive (and just as nigh-on impossible to find) as the Hog, they do not have the benefit of being replicas of any plane - let alone like in this case being a full replica of one and a stick replica of another. It is also easier to use for trim and such in helo sims than the X64. (An area where a functional g940 is the overall winner, though. A functional one, that is.)

 

But you really need to consider the very specific things you said in the first post, which is what I took objection to. You literally said that it is a "total waste" for any other simulator. That is just not the case and I cannot wrap my head around how you would come to that conclusion, and the fact that it doesn't perfectly replicate other planes (aside from the F-16 that is... another factual error on your part that I was specifically adressing) is not a problem for this stick anymore than it is a problem for any other stick.

 

Anyhows, I suspect I'll end up having to split this off into a new thread soon. :P

[RigorMortis]

Has this become the non-sequiturial thread?

[EtherealN]

Let me put it this way: If the Warthog HOTAS didn't exist, what would you be using instead, how much money would you have saved, and how much would it have affected your ability to play the sim?

 

Most likely a Logitech g940, meaning I would have saved ~60 dollars. But that thing has had so many problems I'm not sure. Perhaps an x65f - monetary savings zero. In both cases I would consider them problematic for this and other simulators (though the FFB of the g940 might have been nice for DCS:BS if it worked as it should).

 

I simply believe that buying a controller for the sex appeal that it matches the game you're playing is absurd, because that means it *won't* match the next game you play, so why buy it for that appeal? I'm only putting this here because I doubt most people have really thought about why they *really* want the TM Warthog.

 

I think you need to stop trying to be a psychologist to people you have never met. ;)

I suspect that you are considering what reasons you personally would have to buy it, and projecting this onto everyone else. Doesn't work that way. ;)

 

Here's how it works: some people accuse those of defending a product of trying to isolate themselves from buyers regret, and then the defendants defend themselves through accusing the accusor of trying to feel good about the fact that they don't have any money. Both people in the scenario are wrong and silly, and it is my opinion that you seem to be doing the former (albeit more eloquently). Your use of very broad strokes and dramatically incorrect verdicts on the unit's usability in other simulators are the reasons for this suspicion.

 

Just saying. My advice? Avoid it and spend that money on a 2560x1600 monitor :)

 

Yeah, the 60 dollar savings is really going to pay for that. And the extra-strong GPU I'd need compared to my current setup to properly run that screen. Nevermind that the cheapest 2560x1600 monitor I found at my retailer just now costs 4 times as much as the Hog package. My suggestion in this case would be to instead select a 40 inch LED TV and thus afford both, plus a SLI GTX580setup, and still have money left over for vacation on the savings for that 2560x1600 monitor. :P

[ARM505]

Ugh, ROF with a TM:Warthog :)

 

Seriously, just plug a wooden broomhandle into it! :D

[Frostiken]

I would argue that Saitek controllers are popular mostly because they're the cheapest HOTAS setup on the market... recession and all that :D

Edited April 26, 2011 by Frostiken

[Scratchy]

$00.02

 

I have a Saitek and I like it ok. It has lots of buttons and hats and I've managed to map everything to it. I only use keyboard for starting and shutting off engines. [the option to define new modifiers is awesome, btw]

 

Having said the above, I would buy a HOTAS WH in a heartbeat, if I could afford one. I fly other sims, like ROF and X-Plane and would be happy to use the Warthog with them :P