My TrackIR is irritating and pedantic :/

[Frostiken]

I'm using the TrackClip Pro with TIR5 and, well, it's annoying. I'm using it clipped to a hat since I use surround sound (bah, headsets!), and it sure as hell beats the normal hat clip for accuracy, range, and just about everything else.

 

Problem I have is that it's really pedantic and constantly drifts off-center. I have to recenter the damn thing more than I have to trim my aircraft. Look to the TCN panel, look back at HUD, view is totally sunk and can't see bottom of HUD, have to recenter. I'm not even moving my body, you'd think it would take a few times for it to finally drift away, but no, almost every single time I look over my shoulder or something, when I go back to looking forward, it's as if I sank 6 inches in my seat, with the forward console filling my view and only the top of the HUD visible.

 

Anyone else had this problem? I really don't want to go back to that stupid clip but this is kind of ridiculous.

[cichlidfan]

I just got my TIR a few days ago but the Pro Clip is still coming next week. I am fairly pleased with the hat clip but had ordered the Pro since it is supposed to be so much better.

 

I was planning on rigging something to a hat, as a first idea, as well but wondered how well it would work. I am interested in what the issue is since I will be messing with the same thing on Monday.

[Frostiken]

I just cut two slots in a hat and stuck the stupid thing in it :D

 

Keep in mind it's only for the left side. Badcrazy happens when you put it on the right... though maybe you could electrically invert your TIR camera in the options to make it work on the right...

[cichlidfan]

Yea, I had already done some searching around and could find no evidence of anyone getting that to work. I am like you...don't want to wearheadphones either.

 

Is clipping it ot the hat not secure/stable enough? The hat clip seems solid as a rock (for the short time I have used it).

[Shez]

Could it be that because it's attached to a hat that that could cause it to move a bit? Thus losing your original zero? It's a pretty sensitive toy.

[Wartski]

Maybe a different position and angle for the tracker part will help. And you have to make sure it is stable and doesn't shake.

 

I can see all around the cockpit with no blind spots.

[Pyroflash]

Try setting the zero sensitivity down a bit. Make it so it is SLIGHTLY harder to move across the center range, especially in the sideways and vertical moments.

 

I bet that this will fix your problem quite nicely.

 

I emphasize slightly because too large a reduction in the movement will probably result in you not being about to turn around properly in game.

[wtfisgoingon]

Frostiken:

 

Its very likely just your settings.

 

First switch to camera view so you can see the reflection of your clip. You want them basically in the center, make sure "Video Processing Mode" is set to Precision (not to be confused with the F10 precision mode setting).

 

Next watch your dots on screen as you move your head all around. If you notice ANY red that is bad and will make it do odd things. So you must make sure that the green spots are bright and don't flicker red (or worse yet disappear).

 

If you notice any other spots in the background (thats bad) then you need to adjust (under camera setting) "light filter threshold" as well as IR brightness. If you are seeing other spots in the camera view turning up the threshold should help. If the reflection isn't very bright cranking up the brightness will help as well.

 

Most of the time its the settings that need to be adjusted. This also may include changing the angle of your camera so you can achieve the movement you want without the reflections turning red/flickering and/or disappearing, which causes things to go wonky.

 

You may also need to slightly adjust your sensitivity.

 

Once you have bright solid reflections that don't turn red or flicker you should be good to go :)

[Foul Ole Ron]

And just to add to wtfisgoingon...

 

Which profile are you using too? I think Wags has a profile out there specifically designed for A10C - might make the general movement, etc. more suited for the sim. You can then go into the profiles list and tell TrackIR to apply this custom profile when you play A10C. I use the clip and don't have any issues with centering.

[S77th-konkussion]

You need to clamp it to something stable Frost. I have both clips- haven't used the pro clip due to poor foresight- I replaced my headphones about a year before I replaced my TiR2- not compatible with clip..

[Svend_Dellepude]

I'm using the TrackClip Pro with TIR5 and, well, it's annoying. I'm using it clipped to a hat since I use surround sound (bah, headsets!), and it sure as hell beats the normal hat clip for accuracy, range, and just about everything else.

 

Problem I have is that it's really pedantic and constantly drifts off-center. I have to recenter the damn thing more than I have to trim my aircraft. Look to the TCN panel, look back at HUD, view is totally sunk and can't see bottom of HUD, have to recenter. I'm not even moving my body, you'd think it would take a few times for it to finally drift away, but no, almost every single time I look over my shoulder or something, when I go back to looking forward, it's as if I sank 6 inches in my seat, with the forward console filling my view and only the top of the HUD visible.

 

Anyone else had this problem? I really don't want to go back to that stupid clip but this is kind of ridiculous.

 

I have the same problem with the trackclip and after I read this thread a few days ago i decided to try the "old" clip once again.

The result was amazing. The trackclip was steady as a rock, not going left and right and wandering of all the time.

I think the problem arrises if the trackclip is to far away from the camera, the resolution is to small (on tir4 at least) and that somehow make the trackclip wander of from center. try moving closer to the cam or/and change the light threshold to 30..

[cichlidfan]

I just cut two slots in a hat and stuck the stupid thing in it :D

 

Keep in mind it's only for the left side. Badcrazy happens when you put it on the right... though maybe you could electrically invert your TIR camera in the options to make it work on the right...

 

Frostiken;

The idea of using a girls hair band, as posted by a couple of people, actually does work like a charm. I had to buy a couple since I figured they would not all work equally well but I ended up with something that works really well.

 

I just clipped it on and was done. It is very solid too.

[ivanwfr]

I did not investigate but the one thing about Pro clip I dislike is this wire. With a hair band (or my Plantronics headphone) you can drop the audio headset when not required.

 

Unless IR is modulated, wouldn't a simple battery do the trick? USB is there only for it's 5v red wire ...anyone?

[Succellus]

Dude, increase the dead zones around the center !!!!!

And get a stable platform for the clip to stay, no a flimsy hat.

 

Ok i use headfone, and i look as ridiculous as anyone else...

I don t have to center it that much unless i begin to slouch on my chair, but then....its my fault isn t it ?

[cichlidfan]

I did not investigate but the one thing about Pro clip I dislike is this wire. With a hair band (or my Plantronics headphone) you can drop the audio headset when not required.

 

Unless IR is modulated, wouldn't a simple battery do the trick? USB is there only for it's 5v red wire ...anyone?

 

The software does control the intensity of the leds but other than that I suspect a battery would have done the job as well. The wire is not that big of a deal...there is no weight associated with it and if you already have head phones then you already have a wire running to about the same place...at least mine would be.

 

I can't honestly say the Proclip is better but I am sure it depends on lighting conditions, under ideal conditions they both probably work equally well. It is when there are other conflicting inputs that the LEDs might be better. When I get bored I will have to experiment.

[Seil]

After over 4 years of TiR experience:

 

Seems obvious, but, the Pro-Clip arm does have to be in the correct orientation for it to properly work, which is having the longest arm on the bottom. I've always used it with the most success on the left side of my head, right side never worked well.

 

#2 The camera should be centered on the Clip not on your head, which is over to the left side a fair bit. Using a 22" LCD, the camera is basically 0.5 - 1 inch from the left corner of the display if clipped on the top of the monitor.

 

#3 Use the software to get the alignment of the dots pretty well centered in the camera's FOV.

 

#4 check head movement against camera dot tracking and look for places where 2 dots merge or come very close to each other. When this happens, the camera has a tendency to lose accurate tracking. - The camera may need to be raised or lowered accordingly to allow for proper angle tracking when moving your head around.

 

#5 Dot tracking size and light filtering settings should be set accordingly. I've always had the best performance from the smallest dots possible and adjusting the dot tracking size lower to accommodate. It basically means the dots stay separate from each other more when certain angles bring them close to each other. - Setting light filtering lower to make the dots smaller will also help cut down on unwanted IR noise in the background of the camera's FOV, which can wreak havoc on tracking.

 

#6 Just as vertical and horizontal centering matters, so does the distance from the clip to the camera, you may benefit from the camera being a bit closer or further away from your head based on tracking tests. Easy to test, just put your head further or closer when using dot tracking view looking for "binding" where multiple dots merge together and the camera loses track.

 

#7 The motion allowed in the cockpit has a couple weird limits. For instance, if I look down and zoom in at a part of the lower center dash, and then return to HUD, it may be a bit off, but if I zoom out, by pulling away before I sit back up to look at HUD, it centers properly, almost as if without doing that, the camera in the sim is colliding with an invisible "shelf" that wont allow the camera to retract to original position.

 

#8 I do reset my TiR centering often. But it's not always necessary for me to do it, I do it mostly from habit. And since i'll lean off to the side to blow a smoke out the window fan quick on auto-pilot navigating to/from airfield. When repositioning myself back to normal placement, re-centering isn't always necessary, but restores the precise alignment.

 

#9 The more you use it, and fully experiment with the settings and configuration of your TiR setup, the better it will get, and be more natural.

 

#10 Using TiR really shows you how much your head moves around without you noticing it. Takes some discipline to keep your head centered and aligned unless you want to look around.

 

#11 Check the sim's G-Force settings as well, it will pull your head cam around without you moving TiR and it will affect your view.

 

I initially started out with a dead zone in the middle so it would re-lock to center, and gradually over time, my preferred curves became more aggressive and the center dead zone was eliminated. Now, I run a completely FLAT response line on every axis, with increased sensitivity on zoom, reduced on roll and x, y, pitch and yaw all the same.

 

At this point, I can accurately track planes, missiles, and ground targets visually using TiR looking out of the canopy while jinking, or the other aircraft conducting aggressive maneuvers, or both at the same time. If you spend the time to really experiment and get it properly setup for your environment, it becomes more than an immersion booster, it is a real weapon.

 

Hope any of that can help.

 

-EDIT:

 

After re-reading your post, I do have to say that the vector clip is fast, accurate and fully capable of the same results that the Pro-Clip can get. That being said, I'm pretty sure you have a distance issue. The only reason the Pro-Clip would track more accurately than the vector clip is if it were too far away from the camera.

 

 

-Seil

Edited May 27, 2011 by Seil

[ivanwfr]

I really enjoyed reading your experience report as it sounds clear and clean. Facts are currently loosing precedence over random anonymous opinions or gossip consensus. I suggest you should make a copy of this post to the head of a dedicated thread where facts would be welcome and opinion be banished. It's not this hard to filter them out after all in these forums, dedicated/dumb ratio appears to be high above average. Thanks again from a new TIR user who likes the thing already but knows that time has to do its job to make these points tracking become natural.

[Yammo]

So many replies...

...yet none who understands the original poster. ^_^

Unfortunately I do, as I use TIR5 with Track Clip Pro and experience this problem too.

 

100% Repro:

- Open up TIR5 profiler.

- Enable all translation and rotation axis. (ie, full 6-DOF)

- Enable TrueView

 

- Rotate virtual head 45 deg up

- Move "real" head towards TIR-camera

- (Virtual head now slides forward and up)

 

- Rotate virtual head 45 deg down

- Move head away from TIR-camera

- (Virtual head now slides backwards and up)

 

Observe:

- "Real" head is at position of origin

- "Virtual" head is looking forward at a higher position.

- (Note: During the repro, the head may "pop" back towards centre.)

 

 

Worth Noting:

It is worth to note, that the rotation never seen to drift, but the issue is rather

that the virtual head translation does not end up in ORIGO after completing a motion

and returned your "real" head back to the original position.

 

100%. I'm not sure if this is a problem with the Camera, TIR-software, or if it is

an inherent drift due to the in-accuracy of floating-point variables. I do get less

of a drift when I lower the sensitivity-curves, which I DO have rather high.

(My sensitivity is in the order of x^2+5. I.e a parabula with sensitivity 5 at X=0)

So, it may indeed be a floating-point-precision issue... But lowering the sensitivity

would have me twisting my head off my shoulders, so that's not really a solution.

 

 

The only work-arounds I have found so far:

 

Disable the "TrueView"...

- Benefit: Allows all axes, which feels very good when looking forward.

- Problem: Un-intuitive head-movement when looking over your shoulders.

 

Restrict number of axes used.(i.e disable Y&Z-translation)

- Benefit: Intuitive head-movement to look over your shoulder and behind seat.

- Problem: You will need a key-mapping for zoom.

[ivanwfr]

Yes Yammo, with more time spent dealing with all kinds of adjustments, what you describe seems about right. We are more trimming than siming.

 

Once more, back to my motto: software should not be granted more license to be dumb as hardware is. Should we have our cars be as unreliable, human lifespan would be near 18.

 

I'm pretty sure that some kind of "back to reset parameter drift with time" would be smart enough to restore a neutral position when errors accumulate.

 

The thing is that I'm not sure if it would be reasonable to expect being heard by TrackIR devs... Anyway that's something worth investigating, and this would be in some NaturalPoint's forum.

[Succellus]

You can t have intuitive in all directions damn it. Your screen ain t 360!!!

Trueview is only usefull if you have many screen around all your head.

Without true view you have to set the parameter that will be confortable but you will have losses.

Exactly the same as having no body, no arm no legs and been able to do a 360 with your neck in th a10 cockpit.

There s always a trade off.

[Yammo]

You can t have intuitive in all directions damn it. Your screen ain t 360!!!

Trueview is only usefull if you have many screen around all your head.

Without true view you have to set the parameter that will be confortable but you will have losses.

Exactly the same as having no body, no arm no legs and been able to do a 360 with your neck in th a10 cockpit.

There s always a trade off.

 

Uhm... You have no idea what a TrackIR is, do you? o.0

[Succellus]

I only own one sorry, you should have read my sig.

 

Analysing your problem i can only get one conclusion.

 

You have a problem with your head axis/posture.

The program won t go offcenter by itself, thats a fact.

What probably happens, is the fact that you neck muscles got tired and by milimeters you have diferenciations over the original axis.

Same as your posture, you may not even know it, but you are constantly adjusting yourself without taking notice.

 

As for your zooming in out, please study neck ergonomy and you will see our head doesnt move flat and our eyes compensate to correct this. Unfortunatly the tracking device take note of the 6dof movements compared to the center (Zeroed position).

 

Adding all this, again, i think "you are the problem", please note the comas, everybody does those movements but some people more than others, and some people are coming back toward the original "zeroed" position more naturally than others.

 

i think you can dilute the problem with 3 simple actions:

1) Check that you are really relaxed when you center the track ir before playing.

2) Check monitor/TV height it maybe the cause, if not confortable while zeroing, you will "strain" your neck and during your flight session. your muscle will constantly fight to come back to a confortable position while you will force them to come back to a "perfect" gaming position. Hence the issues.

3) Play with deadzones and curves.

 

We aren t as perfect as we think. I too zeroe my Track IR during flyingtime and consider it normal. By luck i am able to put the "zeroing" button in the throttle function.

[BKLronin]

I got the exact same problem like frostiken. A repetive sinking into the seat when looking around and then again to hud etc. Don´t have it with Blackshark.

 

This TrackIR crap sometimes feels like from the last century. We need new head tracking.

[Succellus]

Wait! if you have it with A10 and not with Blackshark, and the program is the same, then the problem ain t tack ir but A10c...

Something might be interfering.

 

I agree something more eficient should be developped.

[snwboardn]

I hate to say it but I am affraid any innovation in the head tracking arena is going to be pushed by microsoft and sony with their next gen consoles... As soon as it becomes main stream on consoles I think it will give us simmers better hardware as well.

 

It looks like they will go that direction with Microsoft's "beta" connect and titles like Forza claiming to have head tracking... I think for what it is TrackIr is great, it will be interesting to see what they come up with when the industry starts giving them more competetion.