Su-27, Su-33 or MiG-29?

[HiJack]

When lookin for the best loadout for Su-33 I've been reading about weapons and turn rates in an old thread from the LOMAC time :happy: There folks seams to conclude that the Su-27 is the best of the Russian aircrafts and that Su-33 and MigG-29S comes on second and third place. Is that the same still in FC2? Have the missile capabilities changed for these aircrafts from LOMAC 1.1.2B to FC2? Or the flight dynamics?

 

Here are the concluding post:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=485326&postcount=113

 

Is your list the same for online play? Is the Su-33 just used in SP missions?

 

(HJ)

[Boberro]

You have FC2, haven't you estimated it yet :P?

 

Overall all planes have better thrust... Su-33 is not so enormous cow like it was in FC1, however it is still a little cow compared to rest.

My list is F-15 (corrected 120s, nice thrust) then Su-33. With better engines you can travel without problems at 12 000 meters and fire ER.... for even 60-80 km.

 

There are many aspects which changed in FC2, it would be good if you evaluate them by yourself.

[FLANKERATOR]

It's hard to say which one of the Russian aircrafts in FC is best. Each one has its own strengths/weaknesses, so it is more related to the mission's type and the pilot's style.

 

As for the Russian air to air missiles in FC2, I don't think, at least did not feel any significant change with regards to the Flight Models or kinematic performances, while there has been some major shifts regarding seekers as the R-27ER has better tracking but lost its reacquisition capability, the R-27ET needs an IRST lock to be able to track unless you are very close to maddog it.

The AIM-120 in FC2 is on the other hand, much better than in previous versions (better range, seeker and fusing technology).

[Cali]

That list is still good, but there are a few changes

 

* AIM-120's are a lot better now, same as R-77's. You can't just fire from 40nm break lock at a few seconds and expect it to hit. Now you need to keep lock (as long as you can) for a better chance to hit from far away.

 

* ER's are very fast compared to 120's and 77's, about 1000kts faster (top speed) So they will reach the target faster if you are fighting a active missile carrying bandit. The bad thing is if you are fighting an F-15, he still has TWS and you don't know when he fired.

 

* The 33 is still very good, just try not to get into a turn fight, same goes for the Mig-29. Although I have gotten into some very good turn fights with 29's and 33's online. But you really have to be good, have more speed then the bandit and be at a slight advantage to start with. All depending on what fighter you are fighting.

* The 29 is still the same except now you can carry 4xR-77's by default now.

 

* Also the ET's have been fixed to where you can fire them 15-20 miles head on and expect them to hit like FC1.12, You have to have a valid lock and fire solution

[HiJack]

Yes, I will but trying to sort out what loadout to try and what others that have been flying the 1.1.2B more than I have likes. So your loadout wold not include the R27ETs?

[Cali]

People still use ET's, but they aren't the missile they were in FC1.12. You have to use them how they were meant to be used. They are still good to have.

[Pilotasso]

Didnt they correct the Mig-29 FM? it was a flying airbrake in FC1

[HiJack]

Great info folks! I will definetly be doing the Su-33 missions I have over this weekend. Should I mod with the new Su-33 mod from combatace before doing the missions and campaigns?

Edited June 7, 2011 by HiJack

[Cali]

Didnt they correct the Mig-29 FM? it was a flying airbrake in FC1

 

I'm not sure, I haven't flown the 29 much in the last year. I just set up my profile and MFD's so I can fly it again.

 

Great info folks! I will definetly be doing the Su-33 missions I have over this weekend. Should I mod with the new Su-33 mod before doing the missions and campaigns?

 

The new 33 is very nice, I would get it. People still fly the 33 online, it's still a good jet.

[Vekkinho]

Didnt they correct the Mig-29 FM? it was a flying airbrake in FC1

 

What do you mean with flying airbrake? I had no issues in FC1.12?

[RotoFly]

for my in FC2 is just R77 vs AIM 120 C

 

--------------------------------------------

 

in-1.12b = is R27ER vs 120C

[59th_Buncsi]

The 33 is still very good, just try not to get into a turn fight, same goes for the MiG-29.

 

Well the 29 is exactly exist for turn fight. In FC2 also, and if its get closer than 10 miles, every other plane is in a huge problem. But i agree, dont get into a turn fight with the 33.

[HiJack]

Okay. Installed the combatace Su-33 model, no problems there. Edited my DACT files to fit Su-33 and dealt with my first F-15C, Su-23 and MiG-29S head to head. Had to go low on the F-15C to survive ;) There is definitely some tactics that must be used differently with the Su-33 but it handles quite nicely I will say. Great model from Combatace, recommended :D

 

Thats what i had time for tonight, fly more Su-33 tomorrow. Thanks for the responces folks :thumbup:

 

(HJ)

[RIPTIDE]

When lookin for the best loadout for Su-33 I've been reading about weapons and turn rates in an old thread from the LOMAC time :happy: There folks seams to conclude that the Su-27 is the best of the Russian aircrafts and that Su-33 and MigG-29S comes on second and third place. Is that the same still in FC2? Have the missile capabilities changed for these aircrafts from LOMAC 1.1.2B to FC2? Or the flight dynamics?

 

Here are the concluding post:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=485326&postcount=113

 

Is your list the same for online play? Is the Su-33 just used in SP missions?

 

(HJ)

 

Su-27 most dangerous up close. A little faster than Su-33 with load and thereby better with fuel. Su-33 not so bad. Similar instantaneous turn rate, but starts to bleed off fairly rapidly. Worth flying purely for Combatace's mod also as a bonus.

 

 

ER's fuzing is a bit of a pain due to network lag. No issue in SP, but in MP you'll notice hits in track replay that never happen in MP. ET's still dangerous, but as Cali said, no more long range maddoging.

 

I might as well go out on a limb here... on server with a handful of people where most are on TS you would do well enough. On a busy server where most of the folk can't/won't do teamwork, let alone do TS, you'd be better with a F-15C. The advantages of TEWS shine better here.

 

As for the MiG- Screw the MiG. Everyone knows they never land.

 

/troll

[HiJack]

As for the MiG- Screw the MiG. Everyone knows they never land.

:lol: Thanks RIPTIDE

[Cali]

What do you mean with flying airbrake? I had no issues in FC1.12?

 

It bleed speed way too fast.

[Frostie]

for my in FC2 is just R77 vs AIM 120 C

 

--------------------------------------------

 

in-1.12b = is R27ER vs 120C

I think thats the wrong way around, FC1.12 was a maddog fest where chaff and barrel rolls ruled.

In FC2 ER's and 120's are the leading weapons of choice as they are now more effective, 20+ km maddogging is no longer a cheap kill.

[Cali]

Well the 29 is exactly exist for turn fight. In FC2 also, and if its get closer than 10 miles, every other plane is in a huge problem. But i agree, dont get into a turn fight with the 33.

 

The 29 is very hard to see, add hills/mountians and that's a deadly combo. I'm very careful when fighting a 29 in that environment.

[Frostie]

In 1.12 the Su-33 and 27 suffered at altitude now in FC2 they perform well, the 33 has more thrust so is not so much the fuel guzzling pig it was to fly. The 27 has had an increase in the amount of countermeasures while the 33 stayed the same as 1.12. More missiles on the 33 means it can stay in the fight longer but lack of cm's and turnrate means sooner or later your going to get bitten on the ass.

 

The MiG-29S excelled with maddogs in 1.12 now with low fuel, poor radar, no TWS and limited maddog capability means its not going to dominate the field. R-77's kill well but lack the range against ER's and even 120C's, you must always give off a warning to release from BVR so there is no element of surprise like the F-15 has. Against a Flanker your shooting last and running the gauntlet against the faster and longer legged ER, against the F-15 your up against TWS no warning shots. Best bet for MiG's is to use the weeds and notch or go really high and hit your opponents from range, either way your chancing against superior platforms.

 

In conclusion both Flankers have had mainly positives from FC2 while the MiG has suffered.

[GGTharos]

The MiG gots its engines tuned as well; its acceleration profile is more lealistic, and for the most part, so is its ability to turn.

 

As for suffering - that's as it should be. Smaller platform, smaller radar, in general it isn't mean to compete head-on with air superiority fighters. The MiG-29 is a point-defense fighter and should be used differently.

[Dudikoff]

Didnt they correct the Mig-29 FM? it was a flying airbrake in FC1

 

You refer to the turning performance or in general? I remember it used to accelerate like crazy in FC1 and not so at all in FC2.

 

The MiG gots its engines tuned as well; its acceleration profile is more lealistic, and for the most part, so is its ability to turn.

 

Did FC2 also tweak the altitude performance? The MiG especially feels very sluggish and underpowered even at mid altitudes.

[GGTharos]

The engine envelope includes various altitudes, and yes ... a MiG in MIL power, subsonic, is going to feel sluggish compared to some other aircraft. Where it really takes off is once you go through the mach though, where it seems to have a higher TWR than other FC2 flyables (again, as it should be. The acceleration curve is in fact sort of meh in the subsonic area for the real jet).

[combatace]

The MiG gots its engines tuned as well; its acceleration profile is more lealistic, and for the most part, so is its ability to turn.

 

As for suffering - that's as it should be. Smaller platform, smaller radar, in general it isn't mean to compete head-on with air superiority fighters. The MiG-29 is a point-defense fighter and should be used differently.

 

Hmmm, so where is Mig-29S's multiple target engagement capability??????? or more where is Zhuk????

[GGTharos]

To answer your question: Nowhere. It is a major chore to implement it on the old aircraft and I'm not convinced that the guys high up will allot the time/effort. But even then, there's no documentation on the mechanization of this capability anyway, so no one knows how to represent it.

 

To further elaborate on what you asked: Even if you got the capability, you should still live in fear of flankers and eagles. It won't make the MiG-29 capable of confronting them head-on. It will remain a point-defense fighter, albeit superior (in terms of armament and relative radar equivalence) to say, an F-18A or C that is only armed with AIM-7's. Now the discussion would turn to ECM/ECCM and we're not going to go there :)

 

Hmmm, so where is Mig-29S's multiple target engagement capability??????? or more where is Zhuk????

Edited June 8, 2011 by GGTharos

[combatace]

To answer your question: Nowhere. It is a major chore to implement it on the old aircraft and I'm not convinced that the guys high up will allot the time/effort. But even then, there's no documentation on the mechanization of this capability anyway, so no one knows how to represent it.

 

Well, it was a major chore for me to earn 30$ which I paid and I can expect things to be more real with migs than they are. Anyway neither you nor me can make a difference so there no need of discussing this any more.