US Boxed PC Version

[Specter1606688147]

I think you helped convince me even more that the DD should be a lot cheaper than boxed set with this statement:

"Think of it like this:

Price of my computer: ~1500 dollars.

Price of electricity per year towards running the computer: ~1250 dollars. (Includes taxes.)

So since I usually swap out main rig on a two-year interval, total cost of ownership assuming no repairs or MLU's occur: ~4000 dollars."

 

If there were just 4,000 buyers in a year at $60 piece, that's $240,000. More than enough to cover the expences you described, in 1 years time.

 

My point with the military is that other sims currently (or in past few years), cost $50 (or less), and they had no military contract and most sold through retailers in boxed sets. ED sells through DD and has a military contract. Seems DD and contracts are raising the cost.

 

But as you said, we went off topic.

[EtherealN]

You really need to really read all that I wrote.

"Now of course, these numbers don't quite apply since these are domestic numbers, and I'm not in the same country as the servers."

 

Now, with all we've learned, remember that we are actually talking about a slice of 4 dollars per 60 dollar sale. So, your 4000 sales become not 240 000, but rather 16 000 dollars.

 

And remember what I said in my example: that's a GAMING computer, running GAMING tasks. It is not enterprise hardware guaranteed for 24/7 operation. Such equipment costs a LOT more. And you need a lot more of them. You don't really think it's one single off-the-shelf gaming rig that's running everything, do you? ;) Plus you need electricity for 24/7 operation of all of it, plus hotswitchable spare hardware, plus monitoring, plus servicing, plus bandwidth, plus software... (And probably adding redundant power supplies (yeehah, expensive), redundant backbone fiber connections (yikes, even more expensive - call your ISP and ask them for a 10Gbit backbone fiber and find out what price they quote you). If a gaming PC costs 4000 dollars, what do you think a score of enterprice server rigs cost? A LOT MORE.

 

So yeah, if I distributed a game from my home PC, selling 4000 games would cover it. But my home PC wouldn't cope with the load, it wouldn't be to offering 24/7 uptime, and I wouldn't be able to do anything else on it.

 

Seriously, when I make an illustration, it's an illustration. Remember where we started: it's still just 4 dollars per game that it is even theoretically possible to save through abstaining from not having printed media. If the difference was such that halving the price would be possible - why on earth would they ever even think about releasing a DVD version? If it was true, every sale of a DVD version would amount to a LOSS of 30 dollars because they could have made that sale on DD and kept those 30 dollars!

 

And as I said, in your last post you conveniently forgot all about everything else that goes into this. Say a game takes 2 years to develop and test. Say they have 50 employees. Say average pay is 3000 dollars a month. That's 3,6 million dollars in salaries - so add 60 000 copies to cover that. Then there's all the hardware - they need machines to work on. One computer each, minimum: 3300 copies. Facilities, overhead, software licenses (checked the price of 3DS and Photoshop? Odds are, each of the guys have software that costs more than your computer. Sometimes several times more). Now that's beside the point since we're talking about DD specifically, but you abandoned that through quoting 60 dollars apiece. Remember: 4 dollars per copy is what you have to play with. Total. Per copy. Of course, as I said, I don't know if this is the exact number for ED, but it is the general ballpark for most computer games. 4 dollars. Not 60. 60 dollars includes literally everything, all the way from paying the receptionist to employee dental benefits and keeping the air conditioning in the office running.

 

As for pricing, you're just mistaken. I won't argue much with you about that since it doesn't even begin to touch on the digital distribution vs DVD thing. Total price is governed by cost of development vs expected sales, DVD or DD doesn't even begin to enter into it. But yes, games that were released a year or two ago tend to get their prices reduced. However, one thing to remember when it comes to physical copies is that they cost money to store: if you print 1 million copies and only sell 500 000, you are spending a LOT of money each month just holding on to them. So what do you do? You dump them. Not to make a profit, but to stop making a loss. (Either that or you do what Atari did, and gather them up and shove them all in a landfill. Not joking, Atari did that!)

 

(And, incidentally, you missed a month-long summer sale during which DCS: A-10C cost 30 dollars. ;) )

 

EDIT:

Incidentally, this is what the kind of setup might look like:

http://www.datacentermigrationpros.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/datacenter1.jpg

Not exactly your gaming rig setup... ;)

Edited September 4, 2011 by EtherealN

[nomdeplume]

I think the most important point is that when you buy a game, only a small part of what you pay goes to covering the costs of distribution. The majority of the price is there to recoup development costs with enough profit that they can afford to spend years making the next game. That cost doesn't change if it's delivered on printed discs in shops or via download. Additionally, charging different prices at different places risks alienating particular retailers. Even big companies probably don't feel safe doing that, and for niche genres it's probably even more important to have as many sales channels as you can get.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the boxed version of the game probably uses the same copy protection as the download version. So in your nightmare scenario of ED/the company managing the licensing server deciding not to support the product anymore and ED not releasing a patch to remove the copy protection, having a physical product won't change anything.

 

One other point: if you buy a shiny pressed disc, you form an attachment to that particular disc (since it's your original copy). Unless ED never patches the game after the boxed version is released in your country, the content of that disc will become outdated. A rational person could just burn a copy of the new one and discard the outdated one, but you won't be able to be rational about it because you have an attachment to that particular disc. You'll be doomed to drag it through your entire life, even when the data on it is so outdated that you'll never use it again.

[Specter1606688147]

Sorry to laugh EtherealN, but your entire reply goes on the assumption that I thought the $240,000 was pure profit. I knew better than that, that's why I never used the word profit in my comment. Also, I only used the numbers you provided to show that it made no sense. Of course they will sell more that 4,000 copies in 1 year. Hopefully they will sell 4,000 in 1 month, or have already done so.

 

As for the reply from nomdeplume, Seems you are not aware that many companies release patches for those with disk copies and those patches can be backed up to keep for as long as you keep the disks. Also, I think you missed my prior comment (possibly on another thread), where I stated that I do not enjoy MP Sims, so if ED ever stopped supporting the Sim and it has Single player mode, I would still be happy playing the Sim with any latest patch prior to closing support. Also, I could give it away as a gift or sell it if I don't like it and that would remove my chance to play it (following EULA).

 

As for Atari, I do recall the dumping. It was not this current "Atari" (formerly known as Infogrames: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari ), but the original Atari company and the game was "E.T. Extra Terrestrial", based on the movie and it was dumped into landfill because the game was sooo bad.

 

I've played with PCs (in one form or another), since I was 13, I'm now 45. I do have an understanding of the differences between DD and Disk copies. I remember when games came on Datasettes (cassette tapes) and 5¼" floppies.

 

I thank you for the education but as the topic of this thread implies, I still prefer having a Disk.

[nomdeplume]

Also, I think you missed my prior comment (possibly on another thread), where I stated that I do not enjoy MP Sims, so if ED ever stopped supporting the Sim and it has Single player mode, I would still be happy playing the Sim with any latest patch prior to closing support.

The sim requires activation even for single-player. I don't have any reason to believe the boxed copy has a different copy-protection mechanism; what you get on the disk is essentially what you download from the website. The only difference between burning the downloaded files to a disc yourself and buying it in a box is the artwork on the box and the disc. Well, that and you have to wait longer. :)

Also, I could give it away as a gift or sell it if I don't like it and that would remove my chance to play it (following EULA).

Many people don't like to receive things with serial numbers second-hand, since you don't know if the other person is no longer using it or if it has any activations left. Also, although I can't check the EULA at the moment, I'm pretty sure you're actually buying a license to use a copy of the program, and you don't have the right to sell or otherwise transfer that license. The setup files can be downloaded (and run) without a serial number (or even an account on the website). To play the game though, you need to activate it -- what you're buying is the serial number and associated license.

 

Anyway, you're welcome to continue to prefer buying boxed software; lots of people do, which is why ED go to the trouble to make it available in that form. Just don't kid yourself you're getting anything more than some pretty packaging to put on a shelf. That might be the case with some other games, but I don't think it is here. It's just another distribution method.

[element1108]

Actually, I do live in the US and the DVD is not available here in the US yet. Only the Digital Download and I'm wanting to get the Boxed DVD.

 

Just so you know www.amazon.com does not sell any version here or I would be happy to buy from them. Seems Eagle is saving the US DVD version for last.

 

Isn't that the problem with distribution ultimately? You get varied release dates depending on who is handling distribution/production of said copies.

 

I have to admit my opinion of digital downloads vs physical disk copies has changed drastically in the last two years.

 

Ultimately that preference will always be in the players hands, although I feel in the close future, the way of DVD distribution (especially by boutique game developers) will become extinct.

 

I hope you find what you're looking for sooner than later Spectre, A-10C is THE best modern day flight sim on the market now and you're missing out in the meantime ;).

 

:joystick:

[Specter1606688147]

Isn't that the problem with distribution ultimately? You get varied release dates depending on who is handling distribution/production of said copies.

 

I have to admit my opinion of digital downloads vs physical disk copies has changed drastically in the last two years.

 

Ultimately that preference will always be in the players hands, although I feel in the close future, the way of DVD distribution (especially by boutique game developers) will become extinct.

 

I hope you find what you're looking for sooner than later Spectre, A-10C is THE best modern day flight sim on the market now and you're missing out in the meantime ;).

 

:joystick:

 

Yes, I am and I sure hope it is worth the wait, because it looks great.:pilotfly:

[WildBillKelsoe]

here are my 2 cents:

 

1- Digi download is not subject to customs duty, delivery charges, state tax, or any other useless cuts. To some countries, like egypt, saudi arabia, asia, and 3rd world countries, this saves alot of money to the consumer.

 

2- Media preference is upto the person. I agree that ED should at least release a printed manual, instead of having to buy a separate viewer. For this dilemma, I'm seriously considering an ipad2. Not for EDs cuteness, but also for work, thus 2 birds with one stone.

 

3- I believe that ED are currently busy for burning DVDs as the product is still bugged, and they are, I'm sure, working on it. A friend of mine told me, when you order fast foods, don't rush the chef, or they'll give a sandwich less than ideal. Be extra patient. Good things come to those who wait.

 

4- For the price tag, I find it more or less similar to contemporary new games. I got BS from steam, and I wish I'd got it from ED's server. You know steam support sucks...

 

5- About the prod key, it's affiliated with a separate company (starforce), thus I dont see how if you loose the man with key printed, be better than mailing ED or starforce and asking for the key...

[Mohamengina]

Or you could just buy it off steam.

[EtherealN]

Sorry to laugh EtherealN, but your entire reply goes on the assumption that I thought the $240,000 was pure profit.

 

No it doesn't.

(Though if you want to say there's no profit assumption, then your example doesn't imply any profit at all, and thus cannot cover any distribution expenses at all since the 240k doesn't even begin to cover development. :P )

 

Seriously though, you don't listen. How do I know this? Easy: you said this:

"I think you helped convince me even more that the DD should be a lot cheaper than boxed set with this statement:" [and then continued]

 

This is after I informed you of the average cost of goods and transport per sold 60 dollar game: 4$. So, you just conveniently forgot that number. That is my point. There simply is not a case, ever, where you should use any number other than 4$ per copy when it comes to this - unless you work in the marketing department at ED and thus have access to the exact numbers. :)

Talking about any other number is like saying that a taxicab costs 50 000 dollars, the fare is 10 dollars per mile, thus you need 5000 miles to cover the taxi. It looks sensible, but it completely ignores gas and servicing, and is thus a totally useless number. Now, if you're in a franchise and those things are covered by someone else, and the 10 dollars per mile is your cut, then you could use a simplified number like that. Gaming equivalent is to work with a big publisher. :)

 

(And btw, I also remember Datasettes and floppies - though a floppy ain't cool unless it's one of the original 8 inchers where the disk drive cost more than the workstation.)

 

Essentially, you think you have an understanding of the difference between DD and DVD, but you don't. The big deal isn't massive savings, the big deal is having power over your product and managing the risk. As I said: even if DD didn't cost a cent, you will still only save 4 dollars.

[tintifaxl]

I'd love to see a collector's edition with a printed manual in color and an A2 sized map.

[gamemaster]

united states A10c Warthog dvd

 

when will A-10c Warthog dvd retail version be available in San francisco california USA?

[kylania]

With a font so large, how did you miss this post?

[Ramstein]

when will A-10c Warthog dvd retail version be available in San francisco california USA?

 

hopefully the same year as when San Diego gets the dvd version.. :doh:

[WildBillKelsoe]

To OP:

I think you're enlarging an issue here... Its a game dude, sold at X USD with online delivery. If you don't like the concept, don't bother. Plenty other games out there.

If the tag is too high, wait it out.

Easy slice....

[Specter1606688147]

To OP:

I think you're enlarging an issue here... Its a game dude, sold at X USD with online delivery. If you don't like the concept, don't bother. Plenty other games out there.

If the tag is too high, wait it out.

Easy slice....

 

Going back to the TOPIC, my question was WHEN will the DVD be available in the US?

 

I was not rushing anyone, just asking a question and I am willing to wait to get it in the format that I prefer.

 

Still can't figure out why some can't seem to accept that.:pilotfly:

Edited September 7, 2011 by Specter

[Specter1606688147]

when will A-10c Warthog dvd retail version be available in San francisco california USA?

 

Good luck getting the answer. If you find out, please let me know. Seems people here are not interested in what you want unless it's what they want.

 

Seems other countries get DVDs but here in the US, when we ask for it, we're told to accept Direct Download as the prefered medium. Which has nothing to do with the question.:doh:

[AlphaOneSix]

It's not that nobody wants to tell you the release date. The fact is that nobody knows the release date...or at least nobody posting in this thread knows the release date. Someone, somewhere, either knows the exact date (unlikely) or at least has an idea. The people that have an idea are likely not at liberty to share it.

 

Lots of people want to know the US DVD release date, I can assure you of that. The fact that nobody on this forum knows the release date is not because nobody has asked, it's because nobody has said when it will be released. I am positive that once the date is solid enough to be published, and a date is allowed to be published, it will be made known in the Announcements sub-forum. Until it's announced, asking isn't going to get you an answer. Or, as you have seen from this thread so far, it will certainly not get you an answer that you like.

 

In an ideal world, nobody would have replied to this thread, because nobody has the information (or those that do are not at liberty to share it). In our infinitely more entertaining world, people are more than happy to share their opinion with you, even though you didn't ask for it. :)

[159th_Viper]

Good luck getting the answer. If you find out, please let me know. Seems people here are not interested in what you want unless it's what they want.....

 

You've been told by a Producer of E.D. in this very thread as to when you can expect the DVD Retail release.

 

Missed the post?

 

If so, refer to post #9.

 

If not, what exactly is the issue? Time frame not exact enough for you? In that case how is fault automatically attributed to ED?

[Specter1606688147]

It's not that nobody wants to tell you the release date. The fact is that nobody knows the release date...or at least nobody posting in this thread knows the release date. Someone, somewhere, either knows the exact date (unlikely) or at least has an idea. The people that have an idea are likely not at liberty to share it.

 

Lots of people want to know the US DVD release date, I can assure you of that. The fact that nobody on this forum knows the release date is not because nobody has asked, it's because nobody has said when it will be released. I am positive that once the date is solid enough to be published, and a date is allowed to be published, it will be made known in the Announcements sub-forum. Until it's announced, asking isn't going to get you an answer. Or, as you have seen from this thread so far, it will certainly not get you an answer that you like.

 

In an ideal world, nobody would have replied to this thread, because nobody has the information (or those that do are not at liberty to share it). In our infinitely more entertaining world, people are more than happy to share their opinion with you, even though you didn't ask for it. :)

 

 

Thank you for your kind reply.

 

I would have been happy if someone had just said

"The date is not known yet", though WAGs did give me a close enough answer by confirming the rumor I had heard.

I'm glad you took the time to do just that.

 

This whole discussion about DVD vs. DD was not what I wanted since I already knew what I wanted.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Specter

[Specter1606688147]

You've been told by a Producer of E.D. in this very thread as to when you can expect the DVD Retail release.

 

Missed the post?

 

If so, refer to post #9.

 

If not, what exactly is the issue? Time frame not exact enough for you? In that case how is fault automatically attributed to ED?

 

When did I blame ED for anything? I stated what I wanted, I finally got the confirmation to a rumor I had read. I did not ask to have posters try to convince me that DD was better. I already know what format I want and I've also stated that I am happy to wait for it.

 

I think this thread can be closed, before someone else wishes to start another debate that I do not want to be a part of.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Specter

[EtherealN]

Finally got confirmation to a rumor?

 

Check who Wags is who posted in post #9. That's not "rumor", that as solid information as is possible to get. If he doesn't give more detailed information than September-October, no-one can. ;)

 

(And if you don't want to be part of a debate, don't reply. ;) )

[Specter1606688147]

Finally got confirmation to a rumor?

 

Check who Wags is who posted in post #9. That's not "rumor", that as solid information as is possible to get. If he doesn't give more detailed information than September-October, no-one can. ;)

 

(And if you don't want to be part of a debate, don't reply. ;) )

 

You sure seem to like to make assumptions as well as be argumentative. I read the rumor before I ever signed on to this site. Why do you think I came her and asked the question?

[EtherealN]

Right, sorry about that, but in that case:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1287124&postcount=42

 

The correct way to express that would be:

"Seems other countries get DVDs but here in the US, when we ask for it, we're told the current approximate release date and offered Direct Download as an immediate purchase option." That's pretty much it. :)

 

Essentially, when the September-October is the information given by Matt, that's as close as it gets. If Matt knew a release date with exactness I'm sure he'd tell you (why would he not? Printed DVD's cost money that need to be recouped), so quite obviously it's not about dissing americans or DVD customers. (Matt is, by the way, american. ;) )

 

The reason I posted was to point out that you have the DD option if you are in a hurry, which I feel is relevant information since the only difference between DD and DVD for you, the user, is whether you download it or pick it up in a store. That is literally the only difference, as stated. (Well, though another difference is that with DD you get your serial number logged on the site instead of a DVD insert.) You want a DVD, I get that, but the worries you have expressed about DD are, in my opinion, unfounded, so I tried to explain them. :)

 

(Oh, but as a humorous aside, I do actually get a little amusement from americans getting the DVD later. Usually I'm on the receiving end of the delayed release stuff with americans playing the games I want long before I do, so it's just amusing to me when it's the other way around in the sort of "welcome to my world" sense. :P As for why it happens though: they have to source printing and distribution separately for each territory, with limited resources, and since ED is HQ'd in Russia and TFC in the UK, it's probably easier for them to work markets closer to home same way it's easier for EA to work the US distribution chain than the russian one.)

[cichlidfan]

Just wondering how you maintain software without DD patches!:music_whistling: