Outstanding Major Bugs in FC2

[Falcon_S]

I`m dead - Refueling and Rearm work - Repair work

If i`m dead plaese kick me from game/battle/airspace/map/mission/ but just don`t call me BUILDING! :)

 

30USD = You/WE are not BUILDING. :pilotfly:

[Falcon_S]

I took off from Sochi - 104th Pressing is around Krasnodar and look at this:

 

This happens two times last night. That kills are counted in 4c stats. :thumbup:

[Case]

Two pretty serious bugs concerning AI behaviour in multiplayer:

 

1. In a simple head to head setup, AI vs human, the AI will engage from 60km if the human player is hosting the game, while it will engage from 25km if the human player joined as a client.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1232743&postcount=1

 

2. No lock or launch warning from semi-active missiles launched from the AI on clients.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=953336&postcount=1

[Nate--IRL--]

Good stuff Case, thanks.

 

Nate

[Case]

I just realized that we can already test if this is fixed in BS2 and A-10C.

[Krebs20]

I don't remember what was done about it. But a while back playing on the 104th friendly AI fighters would engage and kill friendly client KA50s. It was always the F18s. Damn navy. They would go way out of there way to do so also. I don't know if it was fixed if what became of it. Maybe someone from the 104th remembers.

[RIPTIDE]

I don't remember what was done about it. But a while back playing on the 104th friendly AI fighters would engage and kill friendly client KA50s. It was always the F18s. Damn navy. They would go way out of there way to do so also. I don't know if it was fixed if what became of it. Maybe someone from the 104th remembers.

It's still and issue where in MP enviroment friendly AI A/C will teamkill. Long known to ED this is. It doesn't seems specific either Su-30/MiG-31/F-14/F-18 all have tk'd.

[RIPTIDE]

Nate: I haven't read all the thread but has anyone mentioned the no Launch warning bug from SAMS when they engage multiple targets concurrently, but the furthest target does not get the launch warning?

 

Also in SP, friendly Wingman when engaging bandits in front, will spike the player if they are behind the player. I notice this with Su-27 flights. Any tracks needed let me know.

[Nate--IRL--]

Tracks would be cool if you have the time - the more I can understand the issues the better I can report/check them.

 

Nate

[RIPTIDE]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/600721/LastMissionTrack.trk

 

^^ Wingman Spike bug.

[RIPTIDE]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/600721/LastMissionTrack2.trk

 

No Launch warning Bug from sams with friendly in front, track

 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/600721/LastMissionTrack3.trk

 

For reference, single ship. You get the lock AND launch warning. ^^

 

EDIT: Just remember that this is a bug exclusive to SAMS with multiple target launch capability, ie Theatre level SAMS like Patriot. Just to explain how desperate this bug is. IN a MP server if another guy is already been launched on near one of these, YOU won't get the launch warning. Then you are dead. lol not nice.

Edited December 19, 2011 by RIPTIDE

[Nate--IRL--]

Thanks for those, they help a lot.

 

On a side note - stuff that isn't specific to FC aircraft can be checked in DCS - such as the Patriot multi engagement spike.

 

Nate

Edited December 19, 2011 by Nate--IRL--

[RIPTIDE]

Thanks for those, they help a lot.

 

Nate

Now that we're the best of friends Nate, try to push on the track recording bug. That has to be #1 priority. The Opfor-3 server tracks are available (with ACMI generated from this track) and they show the treatment of disconnects ie. The disconnected A/C fly off with at their last known vector with constant velocity. That might sound like a minor inconvenience. However, the AI units then interact with these jets when the track is replayed. (on that track a Hawk actually fires at a disconnected bandit when the track is replayed lol). I suspect that when a track is replayed, ARH missiles will also track onto disconnected bandits should they wander into its path.

 

Track: http://mediafire.com/?00awledsfh182p4

 

TACview: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/600721/Opfor3.acmi

 

At (+1:45:35) there is a red F-15C who has disconnected and his ghost wanders into the Hawk (Unit #513) range and gets fired at.

[Nate--IRL--]

I'll pass that on to the guys that do MP testing, I don't have 2 computers to test MP with. Also as I mentioned, it is worth checking if this behaviour is still present in DCS, as this is the engine FC3 will be based on I believe.

 

Nate

[vanir]

Please excuse my cluttering the thread with a largely useless post but I simply wished to congratulate and thank you guys for this effort to address FC2, for which I'm happy to purchase as a repackaged FC3 (I'm guessing part of the priority is the map change of DCSBS2 for return to online compatability between DCS/FC)

 

I stick with FC always myself, because I don't want to fly choppers and mud movers, I want to fly fighter jets.

The only bugs that's really bugging me is the HSI freeze in AC mode and the bouncy ball suicidal low alt sead mission AI, you know both already mentioned in this thread that's cool. I don't expect any more to be done than is reasonable or possible, I won't die if these didn't get fixed.

 

I assume many of the updated DCS models (AI planes) will be adopted, that alone is worth $30 or whatever to me. It's hard work, I see the hard work when the modders are doing it. I spend more than that on some drinking. I spent more than that on smokes in the last four days and I'm a small earner not a home owner or anything. It's no trouble.

 

Thanks so much for considering FC again for us. It is really good of ED, irrespective of what is or isn't delivered. I only have a single core 2g man, I won't be doing DCS until I build a new computer and that won't be for a while. Not a priority, I'm mostly into older games anyway, the only, only newer game I've got is FC2. Not much further interest in gaming so much anymore, flight simming yeah, my old modded il2 and FC2 that's it.

Makes DCS even if you brought out a Flanker-D version, still a 2 grand proposition, I'm really not that much interested when it's just a luxury and I don't even have a car.

 

so again, thanks so much ED just for reconsidering FC series like this. Really appreciate it.

:)

 

 

 

Oh, with N019M from what I've been reading around the place it basically is just achieved target discrimination and lookdown/shootdown update on the older set, different antenna is a little better, R77 fire control set, stuff like that (might give better lock range on close multiple targets and discriminate better, and allow track in lead, old set only allows track in trail IRL). Not total transformation like multiple locks a-la Hornet. Old set was virtually useless in those areas and BVR in general, which was basically an adapted Flogger ML unit really, almost like it was done in a shed with some gaffa tape and a hammer from my impressions. First prototypes even just used Flogger ML set.

I don't know anything about the technical side of it like you guys, this was just the impressions I've been forming over quite a bit of reading. Just parroting and assuming, I wouldn't really know.

[Dr_Arrow]

Not really a bug, but a rather anoying feature in having the waypoints always switch automatically. I would really appreciate the possibility to switch way-points entirely manually. There are many times waypoints that I cannot precisely reach a waypoint because they will switch automatically when the player is some 5-6 km away (depends on the next waypoint).

[jmod]

I don't know why ED have problem with air traffic!

It would be good if we had traffic both on ground, and in air.

Air Traffic option (like Civil Traffic option) can make FC3 better than ever!

Boeing 737 is the one we have to avoid shooting it down!

[IvanK]

Pitch over-sensitivity at high speed.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1360875&postcount=1

[Nate--IRL--]

Pitch over-sensitivity at high speed.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1360875&postcount=1

 

I'll be happy to look at it, but you will need to define it exactly.

 

Nate

[124SqZeljava]

I am sorry, i didn`t read whole thread, it is to big, but if i may ask about MP for me problem. In 1.12 after someone killed you, you have to get out from the game on "quit" and then again renter the game so the FPS stay in good shape, now in FC 2 you are after someone killed you still in the game like in 1.12 recovery is were still ON, and FPS after let`s say 4 flight, dropping very badly cos it must remember all the kills in the game. Your computer in that condition is in real stress remembering all that unnecessary things. I was wondering can you work it out or maybe turn it back like it was in 1.12, i don`t know does all the pilots remember that thing but i sure do. Now when i renter game i am loosing my score, and it is really important for me cos you guys put him there in the 1st place. Now im crazy about it, cos when i was putting this problem out, after release of FC 2 someone from testers said to me don`t look at the score (which i try but it doesn`t work, it is in my subconsciousness), well i must look in it, we all do cos the damn thing is staying there. That`s one of the probl. from me for now.

Cheers and keep it good work ;) S!

[Sov13t]

You can fly on servers that have online stats... and not worry about your "session score". I believe the positives outweigh the negatives of the current implementation. Being able to rearm without exiting the world is vital to immersion/realism of the mission... if a striker puts the airfield out of order by bombing the runway and all you do is exit and reenter - ruins it.

 

And online statistics engines can more than cover the checking your stats addiction... and most of them provide a lot more detailed statistics than what the in-game option presents.

[Cali]

I am sorry, i didn`t read whole thread, it is to big, but if i may ask about MP for me problem. In 1.12 after someone killed you, you have to get out from the game on "quit" and then again renter the game so the FPS stay in good shape, now in FC 2 you are after someone killed you still in the game like in 1.12 recovery is were still ON, and FPS after let`s say 4 flight, dropping very badly cos it must remember all the kills in the game. Your computer in that condition is in real stress remembering all that unnecessary things. I was wondering can you work it out or maybe turn it back like it was in 1.12, i don`t know does all the pilots remember that thing but i sure do. Now when i renter game i am loosing my score, and it is really important for me cos you guys put him there in the 1st place. Now im crazy about it, cos when i was putting this problem out, after release of FC 2 someone from testers said to me don`t look at the score (which i try but it doesn`t work, it is in my subconsciousness), well i must look in it, we all do cos the damn thing is staying there. That`s one of the probl. from me for now.

Cheers and keep it good work ;) S!

 

You can always quit out and rejoin when you get killed, problem fixed? :D

[IvanK]

I'll be happy to look at it, but you will need to define it exactly.

 

Nate

 

The easiest way to describe it in game is the inability to accurately select and hold a precise pitch attitude. In the normal speed range (I suggest <0.95Mach) pitch control ... the ability to select and hold a desired pitch attitude is ok.

 

Above 0.95M especially at low altitude there is a tendency for the aircraft to overshoot the desired pitch attitude. A small control input results in an excessive pitch result, as a consequence the pilot trys to correct the excessive response, this too is excessive but in the opposite direction the result is a phughoid type reaction with the pilot slightly out of phase in other words a classic "PIO" situation.

 

This can be a normal characteristic in high performance aircraft and is usually fixed by stability augmentation systems. The most basic of which is "Q Feel" in the pitch circuit. This simply varies the ratio of control input to output as a function of Dynamic Pressure ("Q"). In addition to Q feel simple rate damping is also applied to the controls. The damper system senses the start the of the PIO and applies small corrections (without pilot input) to prevent the start of the PIO cycle. The Mig29 and SU27 are all equipped with these systems. In the F15 its called "Pitch Command Stability Augmentation System" ... "Pitch CAS". This is a more advanced damper function. This in effect sits between the control surfaces and the pilot input. It modifies pilot input to ensure smooth non PIO control response.

 

In the FBW types Q feel and damping is integral with the control laws and in effect is a full time system. In this case the pilot requests and pitch response of the flight control computer. The flight control computer then actively controls surface deflection to ensure smooth (non PIO) response. A FBW system just ensures that the pilot gets (within limits) what he demands. Any external perturbations are automatically removed.

 

This PIO tendency is more noticeable in FC2 at low level as the external references (i.e. Terrain) are much closer and any Pitch overshoot is readily apparent.

 

Tied in with this is the fact that in FC2 Pitch trim is very imprecise or "low resolution". Pitch trim should be a "vernier" type control that allows minute precise input to precisely relieve all stick force.Contactor.cfg contains TrimmerGain value but I have no idea if it serves any real function or what it does.

 

Thought ... I wonder if this issue is caused by the artificial AOA limiters that are present in FC2 at transonic Mach numbers ?

Edited December 30, 2011 by IvanK

[124SqZeljava]

Thx Cali, nice positive Sarcasm if i may call it in that way;):D

[124SqZeljava]

You can fly on servers that have online stats... and not worry about your "session score". I believe the positives outweigh the negatives of the current implementation. Being able to rearm without exiting the world is vital to immersion/realism of the mission... if a striker puts the airfield out of order by bombing the runway and all you do is exit and reenter - ruins it.

 

And online statistics engines can more than cover the checking your stats addiction... and most of them provide a lot more detailed statistics than what the in-game option presents.

 

Okay, good point about runway, but i think we all are going too far with "realism"(if someone wanna it real, then go for a pilot, i just wanna play at the end a good game, now don`t get me wrong on this) i dont remember that anyone was putting that as a problem like exiting and reentering in 1.12, but no problem, ok i just wanna to say that this thing is makeing problem with FPS after 4 flight, if it can`t make it right, then go with this, i say okay then.

BTW i know about online statistics, but that was not the point of scoring, it`s hard to transform words on English when he is not your first language. It`s like, i am saying something and you need to understand that i am pointing about the other thing, i dunno how do you call that way of explanation on English.