Too poor for a HOTAS...

[Jona33]

Nate--IRL--

[Mustur]

I'm using the same stick as Nate, Logi Extreme 3D pro, and I'm enjoying both BS and A10. Here's the post by Nate, I would recommend you make your own key bindings, makes it easier to remember.

 

robnpat I have the same stick. I use the 6 buttons on the Left as Modifier buttons so that ......

 

Button 1 = Cannon

Button 2 = Weapon Release

Button 3 = Nvgs

Button 5 = NWS

Button 4 or 6 = China Hat

 

Edit:- to make it clearer, Buttons 7-12 are on the base of the Joystick, 1-6 are on the stick.

 

Hat = Slew

Button 7 + Hat = Trim

Button 8 + Hat = Coolie Hat

Button 9 + Hat = DMS

Button 10 + Hat = TMS

Button 12 + Hat = CMS

Button 7 + Button 2 = Master Mode cycle

Button 7 + Button 3 or 4 = Zoom

Button 7 + Button 5 or 6 = Speed Brakes

Button 8 + Button 4 = Autopilot

Button 8 + Button 3 or 5 = Boat Switch

Button 9 + Button 3, 5 or 6 = Pinkie switch

Button 10 + Button 3, 5 or 6 = Mic Switch

Button 12 + Button 2 = CMS Z-axis

 

This is from memory so I may have left one or two things out.

 

Nate

 

And here's the joystick itself, just to help you visualize. :D

 

 

EDIT: And apparently it was already mentioned by Nate, in this very thread. Sorry about that.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Mustur

[primus_TR]

Primus_TR, the TM warthog doesn't use pots. :P

(Hall-effect sensors is what it uses, not potentiometers.)

 

I am aware of that, but my point was their having a poor track record for selecting quality suppliers. IMO It is an issue with their quality mindset. At least, that was my experience with them as a customer ;)

 

I must admit however that I do miss programming versatility of my Cougar, but not so much that I'd consider going back to using it again :)

[Essah]

you don't need HOTAS.

I play with a regular stick with twist, no HOTAS, no Track IR, no rudder, no Throttle. Works fine.

 

I use my hat switch along with a modifier for different hotas controls.

 

Shift + Hat = DMS

L Ctrl + Hat = CMS

etc.

[statrekmike]

Spent a few hours tooling with the controls, I think I have the start of a workable setup.

 

Thanks so much for the tips and insight, I suspect I will be asking many more questions in the future.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Do you have your profile online anywhere for that? My friend just got one and we're having trouble finding a good layout for the buttons.

 

Yes I do Capt. kylania, I think in my attachments.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=60443&d=1324559966

 

Ahoy from aboard USS Balao.

[Snaut]

Speaking about cheap improvised solutions, I tried adding Xbox gamepad to the setup including Saitek Cyborg EVO stick and a 5 button mouse. I managed to fit all the hotas functions into a config that works quite well for me. Major benefit is the precise analog slewing with the ministick and lots of 4-ways and buttons on the pad. The other one is that I could assign all of the UFC and most of CDU to the keyboard without any modifiers.

[elchacal]

I think there's no need to buy a HOTAS until you can acquire suficient expertise with the simulation. At the moment I have a TMWH, but when I started to fly sim's I used a Saitek Cyborg 3D and that was an excelent stick to fly Falcon 4.0 SP3, a simulation with a good level of detail in avionics and systems.

[BIGNEWY]

I started with a cyborg x, and until you get a hotas you don't realise what you are missing.

 

I spent £40 on an old saitek x45 on ebay, best money I have ever spent ( and I am a tight lol )

[ironstrike]

statrekmike,

 

If you have a webcam you don't even need TrackIR. :D

 

FaceTrackNoIR requires nothing but a webcam and a face.

http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/home/default.htm

It can be a little tricky to intially configure, but once it is working it will do head tracking without requiring silly reflectors or lights on a baseball cap or dangling from the side of headphones. It is quite nice!

 

An alternative if you have parts sitting around is FreeTrack.

http://www.free-track.net/english/

It works in the same way TrackIR does (tracking discrete points), and if setup properly tracks _better_ than TIR hardware, though their software is certainly nicer.

 

FaceTrackNoIR requires a bit more CPU horsepower than FreeTrack, but the benefit is absolutely no hardware required if you already have a webcam. There are a few threads around these parts that share tips on how to configure it for A-10/BS if you go that route.

 

All that aside, welcome to DCS! Best of luck with your setup and I hope you enjoy it as much as we do. :)

[statrekmike]

I am already in the process of gathering up the parts for a freetrack setup, seems pretty easy and I only need to get about $5 worth of LED's and a battery case.

 

from what I have read, there is very little actual difference between TrackIR and freetrack.

 

I am slowly but surely setting up the keyboard controls to be more comfortable for me and the more I configure the controls, the better I seem to be getting at the game.

 

 

Judging from the help I am getting, I imagine this is a community I will never stop visiting.

 

 

Thanks

[BIGNEWY]

Freetrack works great

 

Iused a plastic coat hangar as a clip and a metal coat hangar as a frame, 3x IR LED's and a battery pack from one of my son's toys ( he may notice one day lol )

 

Works great on my wireless headset :)

[ironstrike]

One tip for you if you have problems as I did with LED detection when you turn your head large angles away from the camera: Wrap the LEDs in a single layer of white tissue paper or wax paper and tape it securely behind the LED to minimize folds in the paper over the LED.

 

With that little addition my camera can now track perfectly at all angles unless the cap itself blocks line of sight. Rather convenient I'd say. ;)

[Frogisis]

And here's the joystick itself, just to help you visualize. :D

 

As a starving artist, that very joystick has also been my only control setup beyond the keyboard, but I didn't feel like I had any major barriers to control once I'd evolved a completely new key layout centered around an FPS-style "WASD" that I mapped to the coolie hat, and put other important functions radiating out from it (e.g. China hat at Q and E). I used the modifier keys to make the joystick hat into several different hats, for trim, the DTS, etc. as well. So you don't need a HOTAS to control the plane competently, but I think "competent" is about as far as you can go.

 

Ironically I actually got an X52 from a relative as an early Christmas present but have been too busy with a big, looming deadline to try it out with the A-10 or Ka-50 yet, though I've been occasionally mentally assembling profiles while waiting in lines or sitting on the subway. Want finish work; blow up tanks.

[firestick22]

Even with every hardware goody available, this is a very difficult sim for me. I still need to use active pause to locate and lock targets and I've blown out hundreds of tires upon landing.

 

My respect for RL pilots quadruples every time I fly!

[wolfstriked]

Why are you blowing out tires?

[firestick22]

I have no idea! I come in over 120 knots and BOOM! Drives me crazy, I should be able to land with a load at up to 150 knots. Doesn't matter if I have anti skid on or off, or how slow my sink rate is either.

 

I thought everybody had this problem.

[EtherealN]

Blowing tires sounds like hard landings. I'd instinctively say you probably have a problem with your sink rate, but you say that's not it... (I barely ever blow tyres on landing, that pretty much only happens when I land hard, usually due to combat damage.)

 

If you create a track or three with just landings where this happens I can look. (Note, don't fly whole missions just to land at the end, a couple runs where you start on final and land would be ideal.)

[kra961]

Saitek X65F could ;) I was planning on replacing my old Cougar with a TM Warthog, but then terrible user reports and the notoriority of TM for using very poor quality pots (I had replaced my Cougar's pots with pots from an Microsoft Sidewinder to get rid of the horrible spikes :music_whistling:, and look how they created a side market for Cougar mods) made me reconsider and I ended up with an X65F. It took some getting used to (pressure sensing is a very different experience) but now it turned out to be the most functional and precise controller I have owned to date (and it has far fewer moving parts :thumbup: )

 

I have all A10 hotas functions assigned to buttons and hats on it without having to use a shift state, plus I have one of the rotaries assigned to zooming and the second one I use for GUNARM / SAFE / GUNPAC states via bands for lack of a better use for it :)

 

I cannot say that it is better than TM Warthog since I don't have personal experience with it, but having owned an X65F for about 8 months I'd seriously recommend it to anyone on the market for a top quality hotas. It is that good :thumbup:

 

Not sure what stick your talking about but what you describe is not the TH warthog I have. Hands down you want a real stick the TH warthog is it, the x65 is nice but doesn't come close to level of quality of the WH the only problem is that you pay for what you get and the WH isn't cheap.

[kra961]

Firestick extend your landing's flare out a bit there's no need to set it right down come in at 132 KIAS that way you don't stall and fall the last few feet. takes practice but you'll get it

[FieroCDSP]

The main reason I bought a HOTAS Warthog was for the data management and target controls. I had only been fiddling with the game for a few weeks with my Saitek X45, but I could not seem to get a configuration I liked or found convenient, especially when trying to learn the controls alongside the tutorial. I'm not saying that it can't be done, but you need to prioritize what controls you really need and which ones you want. Landing gear, flaps, and even speedbrake, can be handled easily by the keyboard. Getting the less-intuitive controls (like the slew/designate and target hats) should be prioritized based on which features of them you will use most.

[FieroCDSP]

but then terrible user reports and the notoriority of TM for using very poor quality pots

 

The Warthog uses Hall Effect sensors, not pots, on the stick. I haven't cracked into the throttle, but if the pots are cheap, they certainly haven't shown it yet. I have yet to have spikes or dead zones occur.

 

On the other hand, I've had Saitek gear for some time. I started with the X36(analog), moved up to the X45, and found numerous issues with their design. The X45 had cheap switches internally, and upon breaking the trigger, I swapped out the mounting side of the handgrip with the one from my X35, a larger and stronger design switch/mount. The wire from the throttle was also a constant problem, as the ground would break over time of moving it around. I'm sure the new one probably uses a direct USB conncection for the throttle (the others connect into the stick first for single-device status).

The other thing I asked myself was: "How often did I ever actually use two rotaries?" The answer was that I hardly ever used them. Sometimes I'd use one for elevator trim, but otherwise I never did.

No doubt the X65f is supposed to compete with the Warthog, but quality-wise, it's a hard thing to do without jumping into the same price range.

[wolfstriked]

Firestick,as mentioned your trying to land at stall speed and so the plane drops down hard blowing tires.Plus you mentioned landing under full load at 120 and no wonder you blow tires every time. At full load stall speed is way higher than 120.Try landings at 150 and then lower to 140 then 130.130 is ideal with no load and so when you flare your touching down at 120 right before stalling.

[firestick22]

Thanks all for the comments, I will try to change my ways and report back. Happy New Year and happy flying!

[Mule]

If the original poster wants my X52 pro and is willing to pay just for the posting I will send it to you.