Jammer programs...

[trooph]

Is there a keyboard button for jammer programs cycle?

Sometimes i need to switch between jammer programs quickly and i have to grab my mouse point it to proper button while flying...its annoying

Anyone could help me with it? I already bound CMS z to my joystic now i need the cycle command:)

 

Cheers in advance

[EtherealN]

What you mean is AIR/SAM1/SAM2/AAA modes on the self-protection-jammer, right? If you are in Semi or Auto mode, it will automatically select the program type that is applicable to the highest-priority threat.

Edited January 29, 2012 by EtherealN

[REL]

What you mean is AIR/SAM1/SAM2/AAA modes on the self-protection-jammer, right? If you are in Semi or Auto mode, it will automatically select the program type that is applicable to the highest-priority threat.

 

And there is no way to cycle them?

[hog_driver111th]

Click the button next to, or look through the options... Or you could build a panel, and use Helios.

[wertiqus]

Look in the settings for "CMSC JMR Key". It is unassigned by default.

[EbonySeraphim]

I think the answer is that the jammer mode is bound to the CMSP program selected. So if you have an anti-radar chaff dispensing pattern set, you'll have to have 2 or 3 versions of it coupled with each type of jammer program you might want to use with it. I'm saying this without reading the manual or double checking in game - but I flew the CM training mission recently (mission script halted before it was done though).

 

EDIT: And combined with what EtherealN said, if you have a different jammer for each program that is otherwise identical, the CMSP will select the most appropriate one in automatic or semi-automatic mode.

Edited January 31, 2012 by EbonySeraphim
Added content.

[wess24m]

How well does that jammer program (self protection jammer) coincide with the auto counter measure system?

[Inseckt]

I think the answer is that the jammer mode is bound to the CMSP program selected. So if you have an anti-radar chaff dispensing pattern set, you'll have to have 2 or 3 versions of it coupled with each type of jammer program you might want to use with it. I'm saying this without reading the manual or double checking in game.

 

And indeed it's not true. The jammer does not "tie" in any way to the dispenser program, either in manual, semi or automatic setting....

[EtherealN]

What inseckt said.

 

The jammer is not an FC-style jammer that sits there and barrages the surroundings, it's a self-protection jammer. When you are locked upon, it will analyze the emissions that are tracking you, select the appropriate way to jam them, and then start doing so.

 

What you (EbonySeraphim) is thinking about is that the countermeasure programs will also do the same thing - if you are only tracked/launched upon by a radar guided system, it will select the appropriate thing: a chaff program. (This is assuming you are on AUTO or SEMI, the latter being where the system will automatically select the appropriate program, but you have to actually engage it yourself. Note that if you edit existing programs, this might cause it to select inappropriate CM programs.)

[baltic_dragon]

What inseckt said.

 

The jammer is not an FC-style jammer that sits there and barrages the surroundings, it's a self-protection jammer. When you are locked upon, it will analyze the emissions that are tracking you, select the appropriate way to jam them, and then start doing so.

 

So basically what the jammer does it makes it more difficult for the enemy to lock on you, right? But eventually they will achieve a lock, i.e. it only slows the process down? But once they've locked you does it interfere somehow with the missile?

[EtherealN]

Depends on the system, really, but generally - yes, it makes it harder for the opposing system to get a lock on you. Think of it like shrinking the enemy's sensor capabilities. In the simulator I think this is mainly manifested in reducing the range where they can lock you and not really how long it takes them to lock you, but I'm not 100% on that, and of course not 100% on how realistic that is.

 

Whether it interferes with a missile I suspect would depend on the missile. In-game I believe it doesn't. In reality - we are talking about one of the most classified types of systems in existance. :P But I'd say in general that if the opposing sensor can lock you, the weapon will guide on you. Against missiles, the jammer might be able to reduce the range at which an active missile can start guiding itself (not sure there, but would make sense, but once it is close enough... ...).

 

There's a lot of caveats to this though - the A-10C implementation of SPJ's is a LOT better than the one in FC2, but I'd say it probably misses capabilities that it "should" have, and said capabilities are probably secret enough that we don't know anything about them. But there are people here with a lot better knowledge of SPJ's than what I have, so perhaps someone else has something to add and/or correct.

Edited January 31, 2012 by EtherealN

[Eddie]

ESCM is always a very difficult subject for two reasons, firstly because many specific aspects of what ESCM does and how it does it are among the most protected subjects for every nations armed forces. Even Australia/Canada/UK/US don't share many aspects of their ESCM technology openly.

 

As EtherealN said, while the SPJ modelling in DCS is better than in FC2, it is still orders of magnitude more simplistic than in reality.

 

So basically what the jammer does it makes it more difficult for the enemy to lock on you, right? But eventually they will achieve a lock, i.e. it only slows the process down? But once they've locked you does it interfere somehow with the missile?

 

The answer is all of the above. There are many techniques employed by ECM systems, and each threat system may be handled slightly differently by different ECM systems and with varying degrees of success.

 

Can an ECM system prevent a RADAR from obtaining a lock? Yes. But it depends on the ECM system and the RADAR system as to how effective it will be.

 

Can an ECM system cause a RADAR system to loose lock once it has been obtained? Yes. But it depends on the ECM system and the RADAR system as to how effective it will be.

 

Can an ECM system 'jam' every RADAR is comes across? Some can, some can't.

 

Can an Self Protection ECM system jam every RADAR for XX miles? No. Some SPJs might only be able to 'jam' one threat at a time, others 3 or 4 and others more. Even dedicated electronic warfare aircraft like the EF-111, EA-6B, F/A-18G have finite limits to the number of RADAR emitters they can 'jam' at any one time.

 

Can an ECM system make you invisible to a RADAR? No. Your real RADAR return is always there, ECM cannot defy the laws of physics, but what it can do is make the software in the RADAR 'think' that your actual RADAR return is a spurious return and/or background clutter.

 

For every ECM technique there is an ECCM technique programmed in to RADAR systems designed to defeat the ECM, and vice-versa. ECM vs ECCM is an never ending arms race, and it's why military RADAR and ECM systems are constantly being updated.

[LcSummers]

Very informative. I cant get enough about these blogs. There is really much to learn and i enjoy it.

 

DCS A-10C is the best sim for me. (I had lock On, FC1, FC2 and Black Shark installed but these are gone) Its very hard to learn but the A-10 was ever my dream to fly and you guys from ED made it true.:thumbup:

 

PS: Cant wait for P-51D too.:pilotfly:

 

S!

LC

[baltic_dragon]

Thanks for the answers, very informative & useful. Guess will have to do some testing in-flight, as after around 12 in-flight hours I never did a single combat mission - only different training flights I created with editor...

[Frostiken]

But there are people here with a lot better knowledge of SPJ's than what I have, so perhaps someone else has something to add and/or correct.

Unfortunately, that's me - what I was specifically trained for, in fact. I say 'unfortunately', because I know the system to such a degree that I'm not very comfortable talking about it, because I don't know exactly what is classified and what isn't.

 

In terms of classification levels, yeah, ECM ain't exactly on the same level as nuclear material :D But I guarantee you these boards are patrolled by OSI, so sorry buds, but you're on your own on this one. I can talk basic theory though, but Eddie covered it pretty well. There's different kinds of jamming you can perform as well that can exploit various radar systems known vulnerabilities or weaknesses. For example, you can make your one aircraft appear to be multiple, you can flood the enemy radar with noise, you can deceive your azimuth, altitude, etc. All of that depends on the quality of the jammer and quality of hostile radar, as well as the skill of the radar operator.

 

As a rule of thumb though, remember that ECM runs on finite amounts of power and how you spread that power around determines the effectiveness of jamming. There's other counter-countermeasures, such as a SAM that employs frequency-hopping, and counter-counter-countermeasures to combat that. Regarding the fired missile, I'll just point out that often the radar in a missile seeker is going to be a different band than the radar of the site that launched it, usually for obvious reasons (size, for one).

[WildBillKelsoe]

OK. So, what happened to wikipedia?? FAS.org?? C'mon guys...

 

http://www.baesystems.com/BAEProd/groups/public/documents/bae_publication/bae_pdf_eis_analq131.pdf

 

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-alq-131.htm

 

http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solutions/alq131/index.html

 

quoting last:

AN/ALQ-131 ECM Pod features

 

 

• Full three band, overlapping coverage
  
• Capable of producing simultaneous jamming techniques to counter multiple, simultaneous threats on a pulse-by-pulse basis
  
• Integrated broadband receiver
  
• Modular hardware and software with true open system architecture
  
• Extensive on-aircraft built-in test (BIT)
  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_countermeasures

 

But in-game, the jammer works like Northrop's site sez. Pulses..

 

EDIT: And an interesting finding on the relation between jam-undo and chaos:

 

http://tti-ecm.com/uploads/resources_technical/jammer%20testing%20and%20chaos.pdf

[Eddie]

OK. So, what happened to wikipedia?? FAS.org?? C'mon guys...

 

Because after reading all that 'information' you'll still be no closer to knowing how a specific ESCM system works than you were to start with.

 

You can read up on the physics theory of RADAR ECM all day long, but you won't find out how the systems employed by each aircraft actually work unless you join the relevant countries Airforce in the Avionics trade and end up actually working on that system.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Because after reading all that 'information' you'll still be no closer to knowing how a specific ESCM system works than you were to start with.

 

You can read up on the physics theory of RADAR ECM all day long, but you won't find out how the systems employed by each aircraft actually work unless you join the relevant countries Airforce in the Avionics trade and end up actually working on that system.

 

No shit? :megalol:

Like I don't know that... Anyways.... :smartass:

[EtherealN]

There's other counter-countermeasures, such as a SAM that employs frequency-hopping

 

As a digression, I remember that being used by the coastal batteries in the U-137 incident in Karlskrona, when soviet naval ships where threatening to enter swedish waters to recover their submarine. The naval formation had been lit before by the radars as a signal to say "yo doods, there's functional batteries here" (as if the soviets wouldn't know that already, they had us so well infiltrated they pretty much knew more about our defences than we did :D ), and then as they got close it went to frequency hopping, allegedly to signal that "we are now getting ready to fire and are taking precautions against your countermeasures". The formation turned away at that point.

 

I suspect the ever increasing presence of SH-37's in the area was a greater concern than the coastal batteries though, and of course the information is second-hand and non-official so who knows. But it's interesting to contemplate how important a role ECM and ECCM would have played even back then and for something like that - then extrapolate that another 30 years and it should be easy to understand that this is a rediculously complex subject, and isn't helped by the fact that the people who are in the know (like Frostiken and some others) can't talk about it. Nice illustration of that: I know some exquisitely secret details of our base at Muskö, that I learned "by accident" through a friend re-telling some funny anecdotes from the time he served there. Afterwards he was all "oh s***" about a couple things that could be deduced from details in the anecdotes. So yeah, totally fair that you can't comment Frostiken with any specifics, so hard to keep track of classifications. :)

 

We can make educated guesses, but we do need to be humble about it. :)

[Frostiken]

... unless you join the relevant countries Airforce in the Avionics trade

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

 

 

Whos that? :megalol:

[Nascar]

Just curious, why the hate on the f/a-18?