Wich is a good CMS program forcountermeasures?

[LcSummers]

Hello community!

 

I want to program my flares, chaff dispensers. Is it better to make CMS a program A for example only for chaffs, without flares, then program B only flares and program C for both?

 

If i am right i have to put CMS on semi, then it selects threat and program automaticly or am i wrong?

 

Thank you for any help

 

LC

[Jona33]

Hello community!

 

I want to program my flares, chaff dispensers. Is it better to make CMS a program A for example only for chaffs, without flares, then program B only flares and program C for both?

 

If i am right i have to put CMS on semi, then it selects threat and program automaticly or am i wrong?

 

Thank you for any help

 

LC

 

Manual means you select the program yourself and start it yourself. Use this if you program your own programs. Semi will select the program and then you start it by pressing "7". Auto will do everything for you.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Auto will do everything for you.

Bear in mind with this setting you have to stop the program manually though. When not stopped it'll continue dispensing no matter what..

[EtherealN]

Note that if you reprogram existing programs, the semi and auto systems will still believe the old "role" is filled by that program. So if you take a program that used to contain only Chaff, and make it contain only Flares, and then use semi or auto mode, you might find your aircraft responding to radar-guided weapons with flares... :)

[Revelation]

Personally I like using semi-mod and identifying which programs accomplish the task for the given, known, threat in the area. The reason I like semi is that if something pops up unexpectingly it will switch over for me.

[Eddie]

Bear in mind with this setting you have to stop the program manually though. When not stopped it'll continue dispensing no matter what..

 

It'll stop dispensing when it believes the threat has been defeated (when there are no more RWR/MWS indications).

[MTFDarkEagle]

Ah! Ok, I didn't know it did. Cheers.

[L0ckAndL0ad]

My 2 cents on CMS and flight safety in general:

 

1. Don't use standard semi or auto - it'd get you killed some day.

2. Know your threats very well (starting from RWR readings & jammer modes, ending with planning your routes & altitudes according to mission).

3. Know when you can get false/irrelevant "Missile launch" RWR warnings (that includes AI firing ground-based ATGMs, A2G missiles fired near by, etc).

4. Know how chaffs/flares work and how effectively employ them. Combination of BOTH high-G evasive maneuver and decoy employment is the ONLY way to go.

5. Know your AAR-47 MWS and RWR sensors' blind spots.

 

As to actual chaff/flare programs.. I use 0/4/0.5/5 for IR SAMs. If there is a radar-guided stuff, I just make it 4/4/0.5/5, or use standard A&B programs.

Edited February 4, 2012 by L0ckAndL0ad

[Frostiken]

5. Know your AAR-47 MWS and RWR sensors' blind spots.

 

Unless a complete goon designed the A-10's RWR system, there should be no blind spots.

[Lobo_63]

Note that if you reprogram existing programs, the semi and auto systems will still believe the old "role" is filled by that program. So if you take a program that used to contain only Chaff, and make it contain only Flares, and then use semi or auto mode, you might find your aircraft responding to radar-guided weapons with flares... :)

 

The CMSP programs are all unique up to N, the remaining 12 (O to Z) are all identical to N. So would it be best to only manually program the slots from O to Z? Am I correct in thinking that the semi or auto modes would only use the programs between A-N?

 

Cheers :book:

[EtherealN]

Yes and yes. :)

[hassata]

Also:

 

"You can customize the expendables profiles by editing the AN_ALE40V_params.lua file in the \scripts\aircrafts\A-10C\Cockpit\AN_ALE40V\device. Just open in Notepad++ and change the values on each program."

[Lobo_63]

Thanks EtherealN and hassata. :)

[L0ckAndL0ad]

Unless a complete goon designed the A-10's RWR system, there should be no blind spots.

 

There are sensor blind spots, I assure you. For both RWR and MWS.

[bluepilot76]

Is the consensus that the semi - mode is not up to the job? that you can program something better yourself?

 

In the interest of making my life easier I have been using semi, based on the idea that the system designers know a lot more about defeating the different systems than I do. My knowledge extends to "chaff for radar and flares for heat seeking".

 

UK Apache Pilots in Afghanistan use the automatic settings as it is acknowledged as being a lot cleverer than they are (no disrespect intended!... Just that the system has faster reactions and more information to go on. Source: "Apache Dawn" or possibly the other one., both brilliant.)

 

Best defense is avoidance but sometimes you got to get stuck in...

[L0ckAndL0ad]

Is the consensus that the semi - mode is not up to the job? that you can program something better yourself?

Let's pretend you're using standard semi.

There are two SAMs near by: Osa and Strela-10.

Osa is tracking you, semi gives you chaff-only mode. Then Strela-10 launches an IR-seeker missile into you - and you're screwed up.

 

You can adjust standard prorgrams ofc, but you'd need to change A, B, D, M and L programs every time you get airborne (unless you'll edit your game files, which isn't cool for MP-flying people IMO).

 

UK Apache Pilots in Afghanistan use the automatic settings as it is acknowledged as being a lot cleverer than they are

I think these pilots are not being shot at so frequently as virtual pilots, so they have enough chaffs/flares for one flight to be able to use auto. There might be some other reasons too, but I won't speculate on that.

[Supersheep]

I guess that the UK pilots also need to take response time into account, when they are close to the ground that is kinda dangerous. While I really don't know any specifics, I heard that the terrain is very demanding and limits the performance of helicopters.

 

 

Super-

[ralfidude]

Thats why i run in semi mode with program D.

 

Covers both chaff and flares, and I can manually pop those bad asses if I do get a igla launch or require to drop some chaff n flares as I go in for an attack. Anything afterwards is up to the computer.

 

I rarely, RARELY EVER see chaff and flare do any good what so ever. It all comes down to manouvering at the right time. Perhaps 1 in 50 chance of flares or chaff actually making the missile be any less accurate than a surgeons blade. At least its not as bad as Flaming Cliffs missile evasion. After years of playing, I still cannot beat missiles after doing everything right. Its just almost impossible.

 

 

The Ka-50s have it easy... I sometimes watch those missiles in f6 mode, and the KA 50 is just hovering there, and the missile misses... And im like O_o. Are you serious? I wish I was that invisible to them hahaha.

[L0ckAndL0ad]

I rarely, RARELY EVER see chaff and flare do any good what so ever

Dunno about chaffs (haven't tested it much), but flares are good, if your flight path is perpendicular to missile's path or similar to that (even without high-G maneuver). Flare intensity also matters a lot (that's why I use 0/4/0.5/5). Look at my track.

flare_test1.trk

Edited February 5, 2012 by L0ckAndL0ad

[LcSummers]

Man what a thread.

 

Thanks to everybody.

 

It seems for me more clearer. If ther is a program with chaffs, the only thing i can do is to shorten time and amount. Programing it knew is a NO GO.

 

Is this right?

 

SO i have to go through th existing programs and alter only time and amount.

 

Very much information here.:thumbup:

[Depth]

So will auto mode be triggered by your own AIM-9s?

[Lobo_63]

Flare intensity also matters a lot (that's why I use 0/4/0.5/5). Look at my track.

 

It's interesting to note that the manual talks about the six general types of dispense programs and 5 of the 6 have programs however #5 (flares only fast interval) has no program... seems strange. You have to manually program it like you have done above 0/4/0.5/5. I wonder if 0/1/0.5/20 what would work as well as your 0/4/0.5/5 in situation #5 below. Both put out 20 flares, but 0/4/0.5/5 gets them out much quicker (2.5 sec in a tighter string) vs 0/1/0.5/20 (longer string of flares 10 sec).

 

Cheers!

 

 

There are six general types of dispense programs:

1. Mix of chaff and flares released in a fast interval to defend against an incoming missile of unknown type (infrared or radar guided). (i.e. PROG E)

2. Mix of chaff and flares released at a low interval over a long period of time. When entering a target area, you may wish to activate such a program to act as a preventative measure against both infrared and radar guided air defence systems. (i.e. PROG F)

3. Chaff-only released at a fast interval. Use this program to defend against an incoming radar guided air defense system. (i.e. PROG B)

4. Chaff-only released at a low interval over a long period. When entering a target area, you may wish to use such a program to act as preventative measure against radar guided air defense systems. (i.e. PROG L)

5.Flares-only released at a fast interval. Use this program to defend against an incoming infrared guided missile system.

6. Flares-only released at a low interval over a long period. When entering a target area, you may wish to use such a program to act as preventative measure against infrared guided missile systems. (i.e. PROG M)

Edited February 5, 2012 by Lobo_63

[baltic_dragon]

I have been playing with flares for some time today (setting one Gopher against me) and trying different programmes and maneuvers... First funny thing I have noticed is that it took the AI much longer to actually fire a missile when I was just circling around it close to the maximum range (but within it I believe). However after launch out of 10 incoming missiles I was able to dodge 2 unharmed, others did some damage (although I admit that many actually hit the flares and I just got cought in the explosion).

 

My question is following - what are the best maneuvers to evade the missile? Should I start turning right after the launch? How do you determine who shot at you, from where and how much do you have?

 

** edit ** found some answers in this great video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak6EgzDwiGs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Edited February 7, 2012 by baltic_dragon

[Wichid]

Of course the best thing to do is never get yourself into a situation where you need to resort to countermeasures.

 

I only use manual mode when I setup a run in and want to slowly fire off flares in case there is a manpad lurking. Almost all the other times I leave it in semi auto and only hit start and stop when things go horribly wrong.