New to this title

[doctorpirate]

Hi there fellow simmers!

 

Just found this game. Instantly bought it, waiting for the download to finish on Steam. How I missed DCS on my games radar, I do not know. Probably too busy playing ArmA :)

 

Anyway I have the thrustmaster HOTAS warthog controller - too perfect for this game right - and was wondering if anyone has a control scheme set up to replicate the actual A10C controls with this thing, so I don't have to spend hours messing around in options menus... or perhaps the game detects it right off the bat? Couldn't see any info on that.

 

Anyway, checking in, saying hi. I'm pretty sure I'll be back to ask the veterans of this game some questions :)

[MTFDarkEagle]

Hi!

 

Welcome to community!

 

Excellent choise as far as DCS: A-10C and the TM Warthog! It get's better in fact: the Warthog is plug-and-play with DCS: A-10C!

 

Do you have TrackIR?

[doctorpirate]

I do not have TIR, no.

 

I've been thinking about it for a while actually, as I can use it in ArmA and FSX too. People I know from ArmA who have it say it's worth getting...

 

What's a good package to get for that? Is it also plug-n-play?

[MTFDarkEagle]

TIR is "reasonably" plug-and-play. It's PNP as far as that the default profiles work, but the only modifying you'll have to do is modifying/creating profiles for yourself.

 

Go for the TrackIR 5 is you can. If cost is a serious issue go for a 4, as that one is quite cheaper. However, the 5 has greater resolution, higher FOV etc..

 

I asked about TIR because of the following:

 

The TM Warthog is PNP. The TRIM switch is DEFAULT set to view slewing. However, if you have TIR you can remap the trim switch from view slewing to actually trimming the aircraft.

 

I hope this helps, if not please let me know and I'll ellaborate further. Also, if you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask :)

[doctorpirate]

That makes perfect sense; I mean it's the POV hat as far as Windows is concerned.

 

I usually set freelook to mouse in games like this (is this possible - ie to have mouse-look always on?)

 

 

I imagine there are plenty of control assignments, are there any other tweaks to get the most out of my controller? or is remapping trim the only thing to do?

 

Really looking forward to playing with an A10C computer/avionics system using a replica controller :D

[nomdeplume]

The only other thing you'll need to play around with is the slew control, using the mini-stick thing on the throttle. If you've tried to use it for anything, you'll know it's not all that precise. You'll also likely want to adjust the curves for the pitch/roll axis, but that's also personal preference. I find it a lot easier to fly formation and that with a decent curve on it, but then I might just be incompetent.

 

For mouselook, you also use the mouse to activate various switches in the cockpit, and even with the TM Warthog you'll still need to click on things (unless you're good at memorising key combinations for controls you rarely use). You can toggle between mouselook and mouse-for-clicking with Alt+C (IIRC, I use TrackIR :D) so you can leave it on until you need to click something.

 

The one "downside" of the TM Warthog is that it doesn't have a twist axis for rudder control, and takeoffs and landings using the keyboard rudder controls are pretty awkward. There is a spare axis (where the throttle friction wheel is on the real throttle), but I imagine it'd be pretty weird to use that for rudder.

[ralfidude]

I just got the pedals for rudder control, but you could use it I guess.

 

I use the friction slider on the throttle as zoom instead. Works like a charm for gun runs.

[astrospud]

If you don't want to outlay for track IR just yet, but you do have a webcam, have a look at http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/home/default.htm

 

It is compatible with A-10C, according to their games matrix. http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/compatibility/games.htm

:thumbup:

[lanmancz]

Yeah but facetracknoir is not very good in my opinion. Or at least I wasn't able to make it work fine when I was experimenting with it on my laptop (i5). There's about 1+ sec delay in the movement, it loses track of your face often, it needs very bright light shining directly to your face to be able to track it, it just wasn't very good for actual use in the sim. It's nice idea but it's not reliable enough. That said I can really recommend freetrack. I didn't know this existed when I was trying facetracknoir. Before I thought there was only TrackIR which is expensive. Someone mentioned to me freetrack in the facetracknoir forum and it's really a way to go if you want to be able to look around the cockpit for just few dollars. It's very easy to make (you just need a webcam with ir diode lights (I use cheap A4tech pk-333) and baseball cap with 3 reflective strips glued on it) it's cheap (10-20$ total cost) and it works great (you have to be in a dark room).

Edited March 21, 2012 by lanmancz

[Harzach]

I use the friction slider on the throttle as zoom instead. Works like a charm for gun runs.

 

I used to do the same thing, but the image "shake" drove me out of my mind. Is there a fix for this, or do you just possess a more stable personality than I? :helpsmilie:

[Speed]

I used to do the same thing, but the image "shake" drove me out of my mind. Is there a fix for this, or do you just possess a more stable personality than I? :helpsmilie:

 

You get used to it. At least, I did. We should ask ED for them to remove the shake, though. It could be done, it's not like it's rocket science or anything. And yes, the problem is primarily in the game, not your joystick... or at least, the shaking zoom could be easily fixed from within the game.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Speed

[sturm21]

I also find the shake too distracting.

 

OP - Enjoy the game! I've had it for months and still can't finish a campaign!

[PeterP]

You get used to it. At least, I did. We should ask ED for them to remove the shake, though. It could be done, it's not like it's rocket science or anything. And yes, the problem is primarily in the game, not your joystick... or at least, the shaking zoom could be easily fixed from within the game.

Shaking zoom = spiking axis input.

Nothing to fix within the software.*

 

When talking about "shaking zoom" caused by using a head-tracking software - you must add a higher latency in executing the detected movements ( called "Smooth" in Track-IR).

But this will also add a little delay.. , you will have to find your sweet-spot.

 

 

*or use a custom axis curve similar to this:

 

This curve setting will divide the whole axis in 5 different zoom levels.

 

Edited March 21, 2012 by PeterP

[MTFDarkEagle]

When talking about shaking zoom using a head-tracking software - you must add a higher latency in executing the detected movements ( called "Smooth" in Track-IR).

But this will also adda a little delay.. , you will have to find your sweet-spot.

Alternatively you can engage "Precision"-mode with a hotkey inside the TIR software. This increases smoothing untill you switch if off again.

[TurboHog]

I'm using facetracknoir and I am pleased with my current set-up.

 

It depends on the light in your room. I adjusted the amount of light and camera settings to make sure my face is clearly visible and stands out from the background. Combined with my facetrack settings I do not see any reason to upgrade.

 

If you want to give it a try just PM me and I will send my configuration files...

Edited March 21, 2012 by TurboHog

[PhoenixBvo]

You have lightning in your room, that sounds pretty dangerous...

 

 

doctorpirate, if you want more functionality from the TM Warthog, have a look at the TARGET profile in my sig. It contains some features like

• in-flight curve switching,
  
• Track-IR control,
  
• Teamspeak press to talk,
  
• Stick axes rotation to use as a center stick (I attached it to my chair)
  

These things aren't possible using in-game mapping. The downside is, you have to load the profile each time using the TARGET script editor.

Edited March 21, 2012 by PhoenixBvo

[Harzach]

You get used to it.

 

Trust me, I stuck with it for a good while, but I just can't deal with it. Instead, I use the trim hat with a modifier.

 

Maybe I'll try out a stepped curve as PeterP suggests - it would help to mitigate those occasional unwanted trim inputs...:music_whistling:

[TurboHog]

You have lightning in your room, that sounds pretty dangerous...

 

:music_whistling:

 

:doh:

[Speed]

Shaking zoom = spiking axis input.

"spiking axis input"- this seems to be an extreme way to put electronic axis motion that cannot even be detected by the human eye when staring at the controller calibration screen.

 

Nothing to fix within the software.*

 

Incorrect, a very simple software filter would fix this problem. I used to believe it was noise too, until I started looking more closely. My X-65 rotary axes are rock-stable, no or very little discernible noise, and yet I still get shaking, at the same rate I got with my ancient, beat-up, crappy X-52 in fact!

 

So I think this shows us something. I think it shows that the zoom axis has discrete steps. If, when you stop moving the rotary, the electronic value from your rotary happens to fall very near one of the bounds between the discrete zoom levels, it will shake, as even a tiny amount of mechanical/electronic noise will be enough to cross between the two boundries.

 

The easiest solution I can think of is to decouple the zoom axis from direct hardware control and freeze the zoom position when the motion on the axis is very low. Simply put, first calculate a dP/dt value, where dP is the change in axis position based off the current and previous sample of the axis position, and dt is the time between those samples. Code for this would be something like:

 

 

current_P = get_axis_position(rotary_axis)
current_t = get_time()

dPdt = (current_P - prev_P)/(current_t - prev_t)

if absolute_value(dPdt) > threshold then
   zoom_axis_position = get_axis_position(rotary_axis)
end

prev_P = current_P
prev_t = current_t

You would probably also want to enable direct hardware control for a certain period of time after a threshold dPdt value was detected, but the above code gets the idea across. This is very simple stuff here. If there was an API interface between our controller axes and the C++ executable, hell, I could write this code in just a few minutes. Hmm... actually maybe I should study some of the functions that in the Lua export environment.

 

Anyway, the point is, we shouldn't be giving ED a "free pass" on this. They could very much fix this problem. I imagine that the reason they haven't is because it's low on the priority list compared to other things. So if we were to make enough wishlist threads or complaints about it, we might be able to bump it up on the priorities list.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Speed

[Harzach]

I think I have successfully derailed this topic.

[Speed]

I think I have successfully derailed this topic.

 

 

Look what you've done. :no_sad:

[FreeFall]

I do not have TIR, no.

 

Kinda busy, so didn't read the whole thread thru. But, TIR is a MUST thing! Cannot live without it. Seriously.

[Loz]

If you have more than one monitor in your computer setup, Helios adds so much to this sim

Have a look here

[PeterP]

I think I have successfully derailed this topic.

 

No , you didn't!

I think the train had just a little to much speed at the corner... :D

 

@ speed

nice thoughts - but you have to choose wisely when you apply this script -> see the G940 and the thrust reversal bug...

 

on a second note : your script can be easily done with autohotkey.

 

But I didn't wanted to go in such deep details in a thread called: "New to this title"

 

 

Anyway, the point is, we shouldn't be giving ED a "free pass" on this. They could very much fix this problem. I imagine that the reason they haven't is because it's low on the priority list compared to other things. So if we were to make enough wishlist threads or complaints about it, we might be able to bump it up on the priorities list.

 

Sure - go on and open a thread ! - I will subscribe and give my input.

 

 

BTW: I use this solution if I need the zoom function:Zoom-In/Zomm-Out on PAC1 to make your life easier !

 

Not at pac- but I use the paddle switch to zoom in/out when I feel the need for binos.

Edited March 22, 2012 by PeterP

[doctorpirate]

I wouldn't call this derailed at all; this is all discussing ways to improve the input controls... and I'm fairly accustomed to tweaking around with this stuff, so this makes good reading :)

 

I have a set of pedals also so the rudder axis is covered (I actually can't stand the handle twist axis, it makes the joystick feel loose and hard to control precisely), and so put everything on the controller over to "real life" control mappings with the exception of unmapping the mic hat and using it as my POV hat. Spent every available moment since running through the training missions. The HOTAS controls are quite cool, quite a kick locking onto a moving target with the LITENING and dropping guided bombs on it's arse.

 

It's a little bit annoying that the freelook modifier (alt+c) can't be natively bound to any mouse button, and I can see what you mean about needing to use it for cockpit controls - however having the full HOTAS setup I'm yet to see anything I can't access through the HOTAS menus that can't be set up pre-flight, and I just made a macro for one of my side mouse buttons to hit the key combo... so that solves my immediate problems. I'm considering the TIR setup, however I was wondering about latency, and other people have mentioned that it is a noticeable thing which requires some software smoothing to perfect... how much latency are we talking here? I'm a big hater of any sort of input lag; being a life-long gaming addict this is my checkpoint for a system upgrade actually - the second I notice input lag on standard graphical detail settings in new games. :)

 

Unrelated question, the training missions keep referencing a flight manual... Is there any such thing available for download with the Steam version of the game? Alternatively is it freely available on the net?

Edited March 22, 2012 by doctorpirate