Voiden Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 As topic. I've only tried BS2 for about 10-ish hours, and I'm tempted to buy A-10 aswell. :music_whistling: However, I'm now wondering if I'll die as much in A-10 as I do in BS2. I've been flying sims for several years, but mostly FSX and IL2. I'm therefore familiar with the "type" of flying (and thinking!) I assume is neededfor one to survive on the battlefield. BS2 is another story though. I keep dying over and over due to the fact that I simply don't see the enemy launching at me, before it's too late. I'm therefore wondering if one has a bigger chance of survival due to the alitude and speed in a A-10, compared to the KA-50? :doh: // Voiden
Tailgate Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 If you stay above 12k and use the stand off weapons , obviously A-10C would give you a better chance of survival.
Hamblue Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 I guess it would have just as much to do with experience as anything else. Most of the KA50 drivers I see in the servers seem to do pretty well. Asus Sabertooth P67 Motherboard 2600k CPU, 16 gig DDR3, 1600. Samsung 830, 256 gig hard drive, GTX780 Video Card, Warthog Hotas, Razer Mamba mouse. Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals. Trackir 5, Verizon FIOS 25Meg Up/Down
GGTharos Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 As topic. I've only tried BS2 for about 10-ish hours, and I'm tempted to buy A-10 aswell. :music_whistling: However, I'm now wondering if I'll die as much in A-10 as I do in BS2. I've been flying sims for several years, but mostly FSX and IL2. I'm therefore familiar with the "type" of flying (and thinking!) I assume is neededfor one to survive on the battlefield. Most likely not. You might have the right ideas for WW2 - maybe, but the modern battlefield is far less forgiving. BS2 is another story though. I keep dying over and over due to the fact that I simply don't see the enemy launching at me, before it's too late. I'm therefore wondering if one has a bigger chance of survival due to the alitude and speed in a A-10, compared to the KA-50? :doh: You keep dying due to the fact that you haven't planned your ingress properly, you have not considered where your enemies might be hiding, and you're flying what is essentially an immobile aerial target while lacking the necessary patience to survive. That's just my guess though and ... you'll find that even though the A-10C has all sorts of warning systems, you'll die as much if my guess is correct. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
TurboHog Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) I'm better at staying alive in the KA50. I can go into a large enemy area, find targets, stay alive and RTB. Can't do that in the A10C. Patience and slow advance in combination with better spotting abilities make the KA50 more surviveable. Even very close range unexpected engagements, like AAA suddenly firing at me I usually win, follow the tracers, HMS on, enter a sideslip and maintain a variable speed (to make the lead impossible), fire gun, done. Also, gathering information about unit positions and save them as a datalink in order to engage them only if you know enough about the area is a great advantage over the A10C. Plan your attacks well, use the ABRIS to draw, add info and markers and use your PVI. Your situational awareness is also much better in the shark. Finding and engaging targets by attracting fire is nearly impossible in the A10C. Take the Roland ADS's in hardcore terrorists. They lase you, you know a general direction, you then make them fire at you and spot the muzzle flash and find cover. After the missile missed expose yourself again find him and engage first this time. When you learn from every time you get shot down in the KA50 you can survive your mission better than in the A10C. It's all about patience, knowing your enemy's abilities, creating the best possible situational awareness, experience, etc. etc. Edited May 8, 2012 by TurboHog 'Frett'
GGTharos Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 Also, gathering information about unit positions and save them as a datalink in order to engage them only if you know enough about the area is a great advantage over the A10C. You can do this quite easily in A-10C. You situational awareness is also much better in the shark. No. Just no :) Finding and engaging targets by attracting fire is nearly impossible in the A10C. ... and the wrong thing to do with a helicopter. Take the Roland ADS's in hardcore terrorists. They lase you, you know a general direction, you then make them fire at you and spot the muzzle flash and find cover. After the missile missed expose yourself again find him and engage first this time. When you learn from every time you get shot down in the KA50 you can survive your mission better than in the A10C. What will you do when the AI gets smarter and waits for you to be in a much nicer position (for them) before they even lase you? It's not like that's needed for an approximate range. What happens when you run into a more intelligently deployedm layered defense? This baiting thing works fine - and it works in A-10C just as well, but one of these days the SAMs will gain somewhat better decision-making AI routines, and then you'll be the one being baited. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
mmtaraval Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 SAM's can take out an A-10 well above 12k, so going low or behind mountains would be the best tactict, and helicopters do that the best, but then AAA might get you. My guess would be the more skill the pilots have would be the decider on who lives longer. i7-4790k stock 4.4 / gtx 980ti / 16gb ram / 256gb ssd (os) / 256gb ssd for apps / Acer XB27OHU 27" g-sync
TurboHog Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 No. Just no You don't seem to agree... This is the way I fly and it is succesfull. I usually dont get shot down, but when I do, I learn and adapt. I forgot about the markpoints in A10C, yes. Situational awareness/response to direct threats is better: - You can spot targets more easily (you can zoom in/scan with skhval) - You can trace tracers back to their origin and quickly use HMS - You can quickly slave your skhval to muzzle flashes For me: yes, just yes. For you: no, just no. For me: become a more experienced A10C pilot. For you: ... And the HMS is usefull for effectiveness. The only equivalent in the A10C is the TDC. Hud SOI - TMS fwd long - China hat fwd long - TGP SOI - TMS fwd long again.. takes long. Maybe one day in the A10E there is an HMS :) Attracting fire may not be a real-world good thing to do, but it works very well. Finally it is relatively easy to evade missles compared to A10C. When the AI gets smarter... :megalol: :D The only impossible mission I've seen so far is the Dragons weapon training. The 'Hard' KA-50 slots. ABout 20 tunguskas in a city. managed to kill a few from outside the city. But a streetfight while being outnumbered... no way. 'Frett'
GGTharos Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 SAM's can take out an A-10 well above 12k, Depends on the SAMs. If all they have is low-altitude SHORAD, then being above 12k is the place to be at. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 You don't seem to agree... This is the way I fly and it is succesfull. I usually dont get shot down, but when I do, I learn and adapt. Yes. You are doing it right for the sim you're flying, that is certainly true. I forgot about the markpoints in A10C, yes. Situational awareness/response to direct threats is better: - You can spot targets more easily (you can zoom in/scan with skhval)I have an IR pod that'll do all that from insane distances. However, being close to the ground can be advantageous. Helis are liked by the guys on the ground, and they have their own niche when it comes to CAS. - You can trace tracers back to their origin and quickly use HMSI'd certainly try to not be anywhere near tracers, and the first thing I'd do would be to get out of there. THat AAA is probably not part of my mission anyway. To put it bluntly, it won't do anything to my tanks. The T-80's however, will, so I might not be inclined to waste a weapon on it. - You can quickly slave your skhval to muzzle flashesYou can, but I can just as well keep sight of that part of the terrain, or just generally know where it is. I can also drop a markpoint at my current location if I see AAA. I will definitely NOT be turning around to find it though - not interested in most cases. For me: yes, just yes. For you: no, just no. For me: become a more experienced A10C pilot. For you: ... And the HMS is usefull for effectiveness. The only equivalent in the A10C is the TDC. Hud SOI - TMS fwd long - China hat fwd long - TGP SOI - TMS fwd long again.. takes long. Maybe one day in the A10E there is an HMS :)The A-10C is supposed to get (or maybe already has?) JHMCS. But that still wouldn't stop me from keeping SA in the old-fashioned way. Attracting fire may not be a real-world good thing to do, but it works very well. Finally it is relatively easy to evade missles compared to A10C.Maybe for you ... :) When the AI gets smarter... :megalol: :DYou laugh, but it will some day. And then you'll be crying. You'll get 'pinged' by that Roland, snicker as you line up on it, but you won't see the guy with the launcher waiting for you on the reverse slope ... Not that you need smarter AI to set such a thing up today, it's just that it's not normally done. When ambush tactics start coming into play you might find your own tactics slightly out of date. The only impossible mission I've seen so far is the Dragons weapon training. The 'Hard' KA-50 slots. ABout 20 tunguskas in a city. managed to kill a few from outside the city. But a streetfight while being outnumbered... no way.Yeah, that's just a silly density of SAMs. Not even an F-117 would fly through that. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
TurboHog Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 I'm not actually going into an area and wait for tracers. I mean, if I see them, I find my attacker easily and the hunter will be the hunter shortly after. Conclusion: It ultimately depends on the experience of the pilot... probably the best answer to this endless discussion. For me personally, being shot down so many times makes me recognize every situation, and I take appropiate action. Ironically, this is the most valuable experience I got with the KA50. So the A10C and the KA50 are equally surviveable... Or not... 'Frett'
HiJack Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 Keep practising Voiden, it will become better! Use the shkval much more along the rout to the target area. Make youself a mission with easy (transport) units along a road and spot them from miles away! You know they are there and must just keep looking for them. Suddenly things will click in to place. (HJ)
Paganus Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 In the squad I fly with the A-10 has a much better survival rate.
badger66 Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 If you stay above 12k and use the stand off weapons , obviously A-10C would give you a better chance of survival. Once FC3 comes out , with all dem fighters , you wont be spending as much time at 12 thousand feet in an A-10 mate !!!
GGTharos Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 He will if someone provides him with adequate cover. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Slap_Chop Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 You will enjoy the A10 as much as the Black Shark. I had the A10 1st and bought Shark 2nd. You can die easily in both if you don't know what you're doing. Hence I die a lot. Keep your eyes on my swinging pocket watch. You're feeling sleepy.. sleeeeepy. You're going deeper and deeper to your happy sim place. You cannot resist buying all DCS flight sims :closedeyes:. At the count of ten you'll awaken and feel completely refreshed and will begin happily looking for your wallet. 10,9,8........1 :thumbup: I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy and I've had both. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
badger66 Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 He will if someone provides him with adequate cover. And how often does that happen , unless its an organised and well thought out private server/mission . Way too many fighter jocks just John Wayne it off into the sunset quite content on taking out each other , than looking after the strike package .
Tailgate Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 In an A-10, doesn't matter what altitude, if a fighter breaks through and is coming in my direction, only option is to RTB, unless it's a P-51 of course. :)
GGTharos Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 And the strike guys don't? :) Way too many fighter jocks just John Wayne it off into the sunset quite [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
ralfidude Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 Staying alive in the Ka50 is stupid easy... I see AAA and SAM launches just wizz by and not even dent a shark almost any server I go to, and they do little to nothing to avoid it. It simply amazes me... The A10 on the other hand, will get peppered by rocks thrown from insurgents mounted on donkeys up to 8K... So yeah, if you are getting killed constantly, then you must be sitting literally 3 feet from a threat and expect to live through it, and/or you are like 6K in the air, which will help you none. I say buy every product DCS has to offer (Except for P-51D, though it's just my lack of caring for that plane), because they are beautiful. The A-10 is fun, but by no means is it safer. You will die. You will lots. You will die and notice that your seat is wet with urine by the time you realize what has even happened to you and your beautiful A-10. But it is fun as hell, and with any plane or chopper, practice makes perfect. [sIGPIC]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/ralfidude/redofullalmost_zpsa942f3fe.gif[/sIGPIC]
TurboHog Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 Next DCS fighter will probably be a more surviveable platform. IR SAM Launch? NP. Lets climb 20000ft in a few seconds :music_whistling: 'Frett'
Wichid Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 I find the A-10C's targeting pod capability a bit better at identifying threats whilst orbiting well back better than the Black Shark's Shkval's ability to see at low altitude (so many threats behind those damn trees!) Lyndiman AMD Ryzen 3600 / RTX 2070 Super / 32G Ram / Win10 / TrackIR 5 Pro / Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS & MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals
lubey Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 Certainly non-combat losses were a LOT higher for me back as a beginner in the shark compared to the hog. The hog is extremely easy to fly, land etc, whereas the shark is an absolute death trap when you're starting out, with a crazy autopilot, rotor blade clashes at high speeds and all the other goodies. IIRC, engaging auto-hover below 4 m altitude = instant death SPECS: Intel Core i5 760 @ 3.2 Ghz +turboboost enabled, 12 GB DDR3 1600 @ 1500 Mhz, ATI Radeon 5850, TrackIR 5, X52 Pro and Saitek pedals
BelgarionNL Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 gave up on the Ka-50 because it's not a platform that makes me say wow awesome machine! prefer the cobra/apache! A-10 is very easy to use with light AA or none at all!
Invader ZIM Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Mentioning the Cobra reminded me of an interesting video I saw: It's literally in your face guncam footage from Cobra's in the 2003 Iraq War. Just look at some of the TOW missile guided shots, man that would be fun to try with a Cobra.
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