Realistic approach and attack on ground targets

[-Mop-]

My question is, how do I approach on ground targets and shoot them down the right way.

 

I didn´t find anything special in the game´s handbook, on this forum an anywhere else. Often I find something according to: How to lock on targets, how to shoot, an how work together with your wingman... but I didn´t find anything what tells me how to get myself into the right shootingposition...

 

I´ve got a handbook for the NVAs, the former eastern-german army, helicopterpilots:

 

It tells me that there are 3 ways to attack a ground target:

1. from horizontal flight at a certain speed.

-locking on from far away, shooting 1 or 2 targets with guided missiles,

and veering off before you get into the reach of the targets primary

weapon

My question: How fast should i fly? at which altitude should i fly?

2. form fixed position up inthe air. (this what i mostly do right now, but it feels unrealistic and most important: I´m a sitting duck for every enemy, especially handheld sams, and so i often get shot down)

My question: how do i use cover? Should i first store the ground targets position in my datalink and after popping-up i use the datalinks ingress-function and shoot at them(better ideas?) How do I prevent beeing shot my behind?

3. from diving towards the target

-as I unstood this: this should only be done when the weapon i chose needs to be dropped (for example bombs) or i want to improve my shooting skills with fixed gun in order to get the real ww2-feeling ;-)

 

Is there anybody who give me same hints on 1. and 2. and when to use the one or the other? Are there some training tracks or videos or texts who can explain it to me.

 

Or am i completly wrong and it works completely different... please tell me

 

Thx in advance,

Christian

Edited May 13, 2012 by -Mop-

[Brisse]

This is what I do and it might be wrong but it works for me:

1) 100 - 200km/h and as low as you can without sacrifising Vikhr accuracy. Always be careful and know what you are up against. It might be better to use method 2 and only move towards the target when you need to take a closer look to find more targets.

2) Keep your distance to the target and make sure the enemy is in front of you only. If you start to see enemies at your flanks and at your six then you are in the wrong spot and need to move.

[Xxx]

Hi, these are complex questions.

 

Firstly it depends upon MultiPlayer or SinglePlayer?

 

In MP how good are your comrades?

 

If SP how many wingmen? Also what the enemy has that can threaten your ship? Also what the primary target is?

 

Whats the weather...wind and visibility?

 

Your main weapon, the Vikhr, is a lazer guided, transonic missile. It flies supersonic then slows right down in the terminal stages. It also requires you to keep the Kamov's lazer on the target, so the Vikhr can fly down the lazer's "tube". Recall that the Vikhr has sensors on the rear of the missile that look for the "cone" of the lazer from your helicopter. Hence, weather and lighting, which will affect the Vikhr's performance. A crosswind will seriously degrade your effective range.

 

Therefore there is no simple answer. Its also in the way you fly in combat, either by the way you have been trained or the way you have learned by experience.

 

I always fly the Kamov low and shoot and scoot between cover. Pop up, sight, mark and datalink the targets for my wingmen, drop down, command an attack from the wingmen, pop up when they begin their attack and open fire with my Vikhr's. The enemy will then have two, three or four targets to contend with. Then, if all is going well, close to contact with the Cannon, which has a good range ( for a gun!) and go to work with short bursts on any targets that remain alive. Keep the wingmen on the offensive also.

 

Always engage enemy AAA and SHORAD first (if you have the time), thats where good recon comes in. So always use the wingmen in recce mode. Send them out into areas you designate, where you think there may be enemy. Usually they will report them back to you, recieve them and mark them on your ABRIS. The AI wingies may engage the enemy, on their own initiative ( well, giving the AI pilots a break:D ) and this may give you the "Go" to scoot forward whilst they are attacking.

 

So multiple choices of attack. Of course the terrain is also a big factor. If there is no cover for for you. Your choices are limited. But the same sort of method applies. Recon, mark, datalink, attack with extreme prejudice! Hit hard, hit fast, get out.:thumbup:

 

Still the best sim:D

[Pikey]

I don't think real world doctrine and sim doctrine are very comparable since I use a slow and steady approach based on superior battlefield intelligence. I tend to creep and try different angles because any time i blunder into anywhere i get shot down. But realistically there are huge issues with creeping because of giving your position away.

 

I feel that I would hate to advise a single player to go slowly, even if it works vs the computer. Against people, you've got to move, frequently and keep moving and expose and run and be unexpected.

[Bushmanni]

Primarily you should attack so that you stay away from enemy weapons range. This means hover as it's easier that way to avoid accidentally flying too close to enemy. Hovering on the other hand uses more fuel than when flying at 130km/h which is the speed for maximum endurance. So you should stop only when necessary but it's still better to hover too much than to accidentally get too close and get shot down.

 

I think the handbook you have is for Hind that's two seater and as such is more like an source of ideas than proper advice for Ka-50 pilot. Main reason the hover attack is most often employed is because it's hard to fly and try to operate weapons systems at the same time.

[Sabre-TLA]

This document has some good references on how to attack a target:

 

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-04-126.pdf

 

It's the Attack Reconnaissance Helicopter Operations manual for the US Army (Approved for public release).

 

See Chapter 3 Section 5 - Attack Operations.

 

I would think these techniques would be similar for the Ka-50 but couldn't be guaranteed unless you could compare them to a Russian Attack Helicopter manual.

[seikdel]

For me, it depends greatly on the terrain. When I'm on my favorite server, our training missions are generally in pretty darned flat areas, so I tend to favor high-altitude standoff attacks. I'll sit up at 800-1200m and do a lot of Shkval scanning. At higher altitudes, you can flip to manual weapon control and score hits on larger targets (e.g. a Strela) at 10km out. It sucks up gas, but as long as you have air superiority and a defined front-line that you can stay behind, it's effective.

 

If I'm in hilly terrain, I'll do a lot more popping up, scanning/firing and then popping back down and scooting elsewhere. I'm not good with just my eyeballs, and my monitor isn't the best, so I usually have to move in a little closer if I'm doing this.

 

Just my $0.02

[roob]

There are some videos in my channel of entire missions:

 

http://www.twitch.tv/juclecia

 

If conditions allow I fly it as a weapons platform, slow and trying to use my stand-off range capability. The one with Tianeti has a "dynamic" battlefield, was the first time I played it and I had no idea what to expect so it might be of some value.

 

Two hours so you might wanna skip ahead some parts :)

[-Mop-]

Thx so far for all your relies... it really helped alot...

 

right now i´m training in the "shooting range mission" to approach on multiple targets - low-level and highspeed - to shoot as much targets as i can.... then veer off on a distance not closer than 3-4 km...

 

the interesting thing is to mark and store the targets from maximum shkval-range in the datalink... then go to 20 meter agl... what works very good is to use the ingress function of the datalink in order to steer towards the targets as well as lock those on with the shkval with the datalink-ingress-function...

 

just 2 questions on this:

-is this a good way? or is there something better?

-Why does the lock on with the datalink-ingress-function wont find the stored target if you flew a few curves... in this case the shkval-reticle is placed far away from the target... has this something to do with the inertial navigation?

[Daniel M]

... so I tend to favor high-altitude standoff attacks. I'll sit up at 800-1200m and do a lot of Shkval scanning.

 

Are there no other long range sam threats in the area? I get nervous above 150m for more than a few seconds :D

 

Mop I think you're in line with a good practice (imho). My only input is(mentioned by a few others), if the environment allows for it, stand off platform is the way to go. Use all of your vik's effective range before getting less than 7km on any target/group. Don't forget some tanks have SAM (range around 5km?? I forget).

[TurboHog]

Thx so far for all your relies... it really helped alot...

 

right now i´m training in the "shooting range mission" to approach on multiple targets - low-level and highspeed - to shoot as much targets as i can.... then veer off on a distance not closer than 3-4 km...

 

the interesting thing is to mark and store the targets from maximum shkval-range in the datalink... then go to 20 meter agl... what works very good is to use the ingress function of the datalink in order to steer towards the targets as well as lock those on with the shkval with the datalink-ingress-function...

 

just 2 questions on this:

-is this a good way? or is there something better?

-Why does the lock on with the datalink-ingress-function wont find the stored target if you flew a few curves... in this case the shkval-reticle is placed far away from the target... has this something to do with the inertial navigation?

 

That is a good method. Most pilots tend to be static. Hover mode on, scan with skhval and they call that strategy. Makes an easy prey for wire guided ATGM's.

 

My personal rules based on the many times that I've been shot down:

 

- Never hover longer than 5 minutes at the same position, at least move 2 km away from your old position.

- When cover is unavailable / too far away, do not hover but keep flying in a 40-70 km/h sideslip.

- When attacking a target move forward with a speed between 100 and 200 km/h.

- Laser warning = immediate evasive action. Never ignore them.

- To spot targets I will go a little higher in a known safe area. I fly with about 100 km/h toward the enemy frontline and break off when I'm about 8km from the closest target I could find.

- Before engaging a previously datalinked target, scan the area around the target and check if the area between you and the target is safe.

- Don't use flares at night unless an IR SAM has been launched at you.

- Gun targets that are gunnable. That means all AAA, soft targets and most BMP's/IFV's. Use Vikhr's for SAM systems, tanks and vehicles that fire laser beam riding missiles.

 

As for the DL ingress function.

 

Make sure that you have a valid range when hitting the designate button. Otherwise you store a position that is behind or in front of the vehicle. If you then move to either side from the position where you designated the target you will be looking at the ground without being able to find the target directly in front or behind your invalid DL position.

[seikdel]

Are there no other long range sam threats in the area? I get nervous above 150m for more than a few seconds :D

 

Mop I think you're in line with a good practice (imho). My only input is(mentioned by a few others), if the environment allows for it, stand off platform is the way to go. Use all of your vik's effective range before getting less than 7km on any target/group. Don't forget some tanks have SAM (range around 5km?? I forget).

 

Yeah, you have to make sure you're not up against any LORAD or fast movers. If there's nothing in the sky and no pesky long-range SAMs around, this puts you out of reach for MANPADs. It also gives you a very nice angle for scanning the terrain.

 

Oh, and I always try to have at least one wingman who can sit a couple klicks behind me or to the side to keep an eye out for any launches.

 

It ain't perfect, but being out of reach of MANPADs and too far for beam-riding ATGMs helps me with survivability big time.