Ground procedure

[Elnocho3]

Hey everyone,

 

To add immersion I've been trying to incorporate into my startup procedure accurate ground crew interaction steps. However, I have a few questions (sorry, there's a few......):

 

• When is the canopy closed?
  
• When would the crew chief disconnect his headset?
  
• Checklists don't include turning on anticollision lights before engine startup, is that correct?
  
• Also, when do you turn on position+formation lights?
  
• When would you salute?
  
• Any other steps would be great :) !!!
  

 

I feel it massively adds immersion if there is a feeling of real danger to ground crew if you don't follow procedures correctly.

I'd appreciate any accurate info, or if anyone could point me in the right place.

 

Cheers!!

Edited May 31, 2012 by Elnocho3

[Yellonet]

Making a salute in front of the monitor... I don't even.... what the... :lol:

[Elnocho3]

Lol, you had to pick up on that one didn't you! I didn't say I'm going to actually use all the steps.......:music_whistling:

 

But I'd still like to know!!!!!

[Snoopy]

Hey everyone,

 

To add immersion I've been trying to incorporate into my startup procedure accurate ground crew interaction steps. However, I have a few questions (sorry, there's a few......):

 

• When is the canopy closed?
  
• When would the crew chief disconnect his headset?
  
• Checklists don't include turning on anticollision lights before engine startup, is that correct?
  
• Also, when do you turn on position+formation lights?
  
• When would you salute?
  
• Any other steps would be great :) !!!
  

Might sound a bit sad, but I feel it massively adds immersion if there is a feeling of real danger to ground crew if you don't follow procedures correctly.

I'd appreciate any accurate info, or if anyone could point me in the right place.

 

Cheers!!

 

 

How we operate at Moody...

• Canopy Closed is pilots discretion but mostly at EOR unless the weather is bad
  
• We disconnect the comm cord just after pulling chocks.
  
• Our pilots don't turn on anti-collision lights until taxing from EOR to the active runway
  
• Position lights are normally turned on once the APU is up and stabolized & APU gen turned on, formation lights aren't used during the day, when we night fly they normally turn them on when APU is stabolized & APU gen turned on.
  
• When I marshal my jet out of chocks, right after I wave the pilot off turning over command of the ACFT to him/her is when we salute
  

[Snoopy]

A normal launch goes like this......

 

1. About 2 hours prior to scheduled takeoff I go to my jet, ensure the aircraft is safe for maintenance, remove covers, check cockpit lights, fuel & LOC quantity, and just do an overall look of the ACFT to make sure no leaks or any issues happened over night

2. Review the ACFT forms to make sure she is not on a Red X (grounding write-up) and that no scheduled inspections are overdue

3. About 1 hour prior to scheduled takeoff I pull all ground safety pins (three gear pins and slat safety pin), the ground cord, set my switches in the cockpit (all 4 boost pumps on, AC generators on, pull the following knobs on the Intercom control panel; HM, INT, FM, VHF, UHF, reset the following circuit breakers; Engine Start L & R, APU Cont, DC Fuel Pump)

4. Pilot shows up at the ACFT, I walk to him/her, salute, give him/her the ACFT forms and take his helmet/map bag from him.

5. Go up the boarding ladder, place his Data Transfer Cartridge and Color Cockpit Television Sensor/Digital Video Airborne data recorder tape in their respective places, place his/her map bag(s) on the glare shield, put his/her helmet on the UFC, if they have NVGs or binoculars stow them, then pull the seat safety pins an canopy jettison handle pin.

6. Once the pilot finishes their walk around they climb into the pit, I connect their g-suite hose, left survival kit strap, and both his parachute risers. Pull the throttle cover and go back down the ladder grabbing my headset. Stow the throttle cover in W79 (single point refueling access door) and close W79.

7. Pilot will then start running his startup checklist, requesting "3 Clear" meaning is the APU clear to start. I respond with '3 clear' and they start the APU. I watch for any smoke or sign of an APU fire.

8. Once the APU is up, stable, and APU gen is on (an audible beep is heard over the headset) I check to make sure the inverter fan is operating.

9. When he/she is ready he'll start "1 clear" I'll state "1 is clear" they'll state "Motoring 1....25%, over the hump, ignition to normal' (this varies by pilot). I watch for any smoke or sign of an engine fire.

10. After light off I walk back and check the left hydraulic system for 3,000 psi and no leaks

11. Once 1 is up and stable the pilot will say "controls clear" I'll respond "controls clear" and they cycle ailerons, elevators, and rudders to verify they function off of the left hydraulic system only.

12. I'll then state "2 is clear" they then state ""Motoring 2....25%, over the hump, ignition to normal' (again varies by pilot). I watch for any smoke or sign of an engine fire.

13. After light off I walk into the nose wheel checking the emergency hydraulic accumulators, then walk to the back of the jet and check the right hydraulic system for 3,000 psi an and no leaks

14. Then we run through flight control checks:

·

Flaps to 7, Full down, Full Up

·

Speed brakes partially opened, full opened, ailerons cycled, full closed

·

Elevators Up, Elevators Down

·

Ailerons, left up/right down, Ailerons right up/left down

·

Rudders right, rudders left

·

SAS kick left (left rudder kicks), SAS kick right (right rudder kicks)

·

Pitch trim compensator check (when speed brakes opened elevators trim down, when speed brakes close elevators trim back to previous position)

·

Check normal trim:

o

Elevators Up, Elevators Down

o

Ailerons, left up/right down, Ailerons right up/left down

o

Rudders right, rudders left

·

Check emergency trim:

o

Elevators Up, Elevators Down

o

Ailerons, left up/right down, Ailerons right up/left down

·

Check takeoff trim:

o

Elevators & Ailerons to neutral position

·

Check right brake for proper operation anti-skid on and off

·

Check left brake for proper operation anti-skid on and off

·

Check slats deploy properly

·

Check pilot heat, pilot turns on pitot heat switch (lift transducer, AOA vein, pitot tube) once verified pitot heat switch off.

15. I then do one last walk around the ACFT, verify emergency accumulator pressure again, check left & right hyd systems for pressure/leaks, close panels.

16. Pilot finishes his checklist, conducts radio checks. Then he/she'll say "Chief, i've got the brakes, you're clear to disconnect).

17. Prior to disconnecting the comm cord I'll stow the boarding ladder and close the door, remove the right MLG chocks then the left MLG chocks.

18. I say "Have a safe flight sir" and disconnect the comm cord.

19. Keep visual contact with the pilot I walk out to either the right or left side of the ACFT and await the pilot to signal they are ready to taxi.

20. Once the give the signal I signal "run up engines" and taxi forward.

21. Once their wingtips are clear of any obstructions I wave them off and salute...

22. Then I wait at my spot until they are airborne, once airborne either go to another jet to work maintenance or wait for the jet to return and recover the ACFT, conduct thruflight or post flight inspection, etc.

[Blaze]

Wonderful description and detail! :)

[Elnocho3]

That is fantastic, thanks very much for taking the time to go through your procedures!! :thumbup:

 

Just out of interest - how long (on average) before scheduled takeoff time would a pilot show up at the jet (apologising...... with coffee in hand and flight suit round ankles.....)?? ;)

For the F-16 I read that 20mins before engine start the pilot arrives, with take off time being 20mins after engine start (Rosenkranz - Vipers in the Storm)

[mvsgas]

That is fantastic, thanks very much for taking the time to go through your procedures!! :thumbup:

 

Just out of interest - how long (on average) before scheduled takeoff time would a pilot show up at the jet (apologising...... with coffee in hand and flight suit round ankles.....)?? ;)

For the F-16 I read that 20mins before engine start the pilot arrives, with take off time being 20mins after engine start (Rosenkranz - Vipers in the Storm)

 

Depending on many things (missions, locations, etc.) On average in the F-16, 1 hour prior to take off time the pilots would "step"( go to the aircraft). Keep in mind they have to do many things on the aircraft we don't in sims. They have to inspect aircraft documentation, inspect the aircraft itself, etc. Some aircraft can be ready in minutes for alert launches, but in day to day operations, you have to do checks and sometimes, the aircraft have to be fix before they go.

Edited May 15, 2012 by mvsgas

[Snoopy]

Wonderful description and detail! :)

 

I've done so many launches I couldn't forget if I wanted to :D

 

And as mvsgas said, the norm has been 1 hour prior to their scheduled takeoff time for both airframes I've worked on the line (A-10 & F-15). A models we didn't have a lot of "red balls" but C models almost every launch you have them. Red Balls are what a pilot calls if something isn't working or is working incorrectly for maintenance to try to fix so they can still take the jet.

 

When we launched jets our to go cross country to Korea they showed up about 2 hours prior but that was to get their bags into the travel pods, place they extra crap in the cockpit, etc. Sometimes a pilot will step to the ACFT and you haven't even finished the inspection.

[mvsgas]

...Sometimes a pilot will step to the ACFT and you haven't even finished the inspection.

 

LOL, so true. I had a super get mad at me because he wanted me to hurry the TH, he kept telling me the "wing king" was flying the jet, this while I'm changing a tire by the way. I told him;"You can come here and sign the TH or the Wing King can sit and wait for me to be done with the jet" He ended up making me the spare :D.

[badger66]

Dont forget to make sure your bladder is empty too ..... when do you check that ?

[Depth]

Dont forget to make sure your bladder is empty too ..... when do you check that ?

 

I'm assuming you an urinate in the suit... If you really have to

 

I can't imagine what a 3 G turn must feel like with a full bladder :noexpression:

[Deadman]

I think your CC might prefer you to use your Piddle pack and not piss all over the cockpit:music_whistling:

 

 

 

I'm assuming you an urinate in the suit... If you really have to

 

I can't imagine what a 3 G turn must feel like with a full bladder :noexpression:

[Depth]

Oh, charming

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine_collection_device

[Harzach]

Oh, charming

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine_collection_device

 

 

"Piddle packs" certainly beat the alternative...

[Sierra99]

 

• When is the canopy closed?
  
• When would the crew chief disconnect his headset?
  
• Checklists don't include turning on anticollision lights before engine startup, is that correct?
  
• Also, when do you turn on position+formation lights?
  
• When would you salute?
  
• Any other steps would be great :) !!!
  

 

 

Cheers!!

 

Canopy would be at discretion of pilot. Most of the time it's left open for the breeze during taxi since they're basically sitting in a big greenhouse.

 

Crew chiefs usually disconnect following engine start and just prior to taxi. Obviously before ya start moving but not too soon. System failures, mission slips, etc might cause you to want/need to talk to him prior to taxi. They usually give a quick run down along the lines of "All panels and hatches closed, chocks and pins removed, Aircraft is in Taxi Configuration, Have a safe flight" usually if ground plugs in... They stay there UNTIL YOU CLEAR THEM OFF... That being said I've never seen a chief dragged down the taxiway theyre usually ugly not stupid.

 

As far a lights, yes you turn on your formation lights steady during preflight then flash at engine start. Indications for people driving around the flight line other looking for your plane/parking spot and indication for people around that the aircraft is starting / running engines. Anti collision light are set on taking the runway for takeoff. The Amplified checklist might list everything while a CL-3 might not. The amplified checklist might say

LIGHTS:

 

A. FORMATION ON

B. NACELLE ILLUMINATION ON

C. LOGO LIGHT AS REQUIRED

 

THE CL-3 might just say

 

LIGHTS. AS REQ...expecting you to know the amplified steps from memory.

 

Usually the CC Marshalls you out of parking and onto the taxiway. At they point he stops waving his arms and points down the taxiway indicating you're on you own, they salute. (a coordinated step with ground crew is always which way you will be turning out of parking... They will usually move AGE to the wing that will be inside the turn to prevent stuff including themselvs from getting blasted by the engines.)

[badger66]

I'm assuming you an urinate in the suit... If you really have to

 

I can't imagine what a 3 G turn must feel like with a full bladder :noexpression:

 

Eeemmm ..... butt plug required for anything over 3G !!!

[WildBillKelsoe]

A normal launch goes like this......

 

1. About 2 hours prior to scheduled takeoff I go to my jet, ensure the aircraft is safe for maintenance, remove covers, check cockpit lights, fuel & LOC quantity, and just do an overall look of the ACFT to make sure no leaks or any issues happened over night

2. Review the ACFT forms to make sure she is not on a Red X (grounding write-up) and that no scheduled inspections are overdue

3. About 1 hour prior to scheduled takeoff I pull all ground safety pins (three gear pins and slat safety pin), the ground cord, set my switches in the cockpit (all 4 boost pumps on, AC generators on, pull the following knobs on the Intercom control panel; HM, INT, FM, VHF, UHF, reset the following circuit breakers; Engine Start L & R, APU Cont, DC Fuel Pump)

4. Pilot shows up at the ACFT, I walk to him/her, salute, give him/her the ACFT forms and take his helmet/map bag from him.

5. Go up the boarding ladder, place his Data Transfer Cartridge and Color Cockpit Television Sensor/Digital Video Airborne data recorder tape in their respective places, place his/her map bag(s) on the glare shield, put his/her helmet on the UFC, if they have NVGs or binoculars stow them, then pull the seat safety pins an canopy jettison handle pin.

6. Once the pilot finishes their walk around they climb into the pit, I connect their g-suite hose, left survival kit strap, and both his parachute risers. Pull the throttle cover and go back down the ladder grabbing my headset. Stow the throttle cover in W79 (single point refueling access door) and close W79.

7. Pilot will then start running his startup checklist, requesting "3 Clear" meaning is the APU clear to start. I respond with '3 clear' and they start the APU. I watch for any smoke or sign of an APU fire.

8. Once the APU is up, stable, and APU gen is on (an audible beep is heard over the headset) I check to make sure the inverter fan is operating.

9. When he/she is ready he'll start "1 clear" I'll state "1 is clear" they'll state "Motoring 1....25%, over the hump, ignition to normal' (this varies by pilot). I watch for any smoke or sign of an engine fire.

10. After light off I walk back and check the left hydraulic system for 3,000 psi and no leaks

11. Once 1 is up and stable the pilot will say "controls clear" I'll respond "controls clear" and they cycle ailerons, elevators, and rudders to verify they function off of the left hydraulic system only.

12. I'll then state "2 is clear" they then state ""Motoring 2....25%, over the hump, ignition to normal' (again varies by pilot). I watch for any smoke or sign of an engine fire.

13. After light off I walk into the nose wheel checking the emergency hydraulic accumulators, then walk to the back of the jet and check the right hydraulic system for 3,000 psi an and no leaks

14. Then we run through flight control checks:

·

Flaps to 7, Full down, Full Up

·

Speed brakes partially opened, full opened, ailerons cycled, full closed

·

Elevators Up, Elevators Down

·

Ailerons, left up/right down, Ailerons right up/left down

·

Rudders right, rudders left

·

SAS kick left (left rudder kicks), SAS kick right (right rudder kicks)

·

Pitch trim compensator check (when speed brakes opened elevators trim down, when speed brakes close elevators trim back to previous position)

·

Check normal trim:

o

Elevators Up, Elevators Down

o

Ailerons, left up/right down, Ailerons right up/left down

o

Rudders right, rudders left

·

Check emergency trim:

o

Elevators Up, Elevators Down

o

Ailerons, left up/right down, Ailerons right up/left down

·

Check takeoff trim:

o

Elevators & Ailerons to neutral position

·

Check right brake for proper operation anti-skid on and off

·

Check left brake for proper operation anti-skid on and off

·

Check slats deploy properly

·

Check pilot heat, pilot turns on pitot heat switch (lift transducer, AOA vein, pitot tube) once verified pitot heat switch off.

15. I then do one last walk around the ACFT, verify emergency accumulator pressure again, check left & right hyd systems for pressure/leaks, close panels.

16. Pilot finishes his checklist, conducts radio checks. Then he/she'll say "Chief, i've got the brakes, you're clear to disconnect).

17. Prior to disconnecting the comm cord I'll stow the boarding ladder and close the door, remove the right MLG chocks then the left MLG chocks.

18. I say "Have a safe flight sir" and disconnect the comm cord.

19. Keep visual contact with the pilot I walk out to either the right or left side of the ACFT and await the pilot to signal they are ready to taxi.

20. Once the give the signal I signal "run up engines" and taxi forward.

21. Once their wingtips are clear of any obstructions I wave them off and salute...

22. Then I wait at my spot until they are airborne, once airborne either go to another jet to work maintenance or wait for the jet to return and recover the ACFT, conduct thruflight or post flight inspection, etc.

 

We are indeed spoiled in that sim...

[Sierra99]

"Motoring 1....25%, over the hump, ignition to normal'

 

OK, this is different from the game. Which is correct?

 

Gadgets

[Eddie]

OK, this is different from the game. Which is correct?

 

Gadgets

 

Both.

[hassata]

Sweet-thanks for the details.

 

"right after I wave the pilot off turning over command of the ACFT to him/her" - till then, they're sock puppets :D.

[Sierra99]

Both.

 

OK Sooooooooooo What / Why 2 different procedures? Is either easier on the engines?< Just curious?

[Snoopy]

OK, this is different from the game. Which is correct?

 

Gadgets

 

 

Some pilots motor the engines first, others don't. It's pilot preference...

 

 

OK Sooooooooooo What / Why 2 different procedures? Is either easier on the engines?< Just curious?

 

All motoring the engine does is purge any residual fuel and if the engine is hot cool it so it's safe to start.

[BlueRidgeDx]

Strictly speaking, the only time you HAVE to motor the engine before introducing fuel is 1) after an abnormal/aborted start in order to purge excess fuel from the combustion chamber, 2) when the ITT hasn't cooled below 200deg from a previous engine run, 3) when there's a strong tailwind and you're worried about a hot start 4) when the airplane is cold soaked and you need to make sure the fan rotates freely.

 

Beyond that, the autostart system works fine. Some pilots simply prefer to perform the manual start all the time.

 

Edit: crap, sniped by Paul.

[Sierra99]

Beyond that, the autostart system works fine. Some pilots simply prefer to perform the manual start all the time.

 

I may just have to try this tomorrow night! Thanks for the clarification.