Mavericks grazing targets

[Spudman]

I've noticed that when I fire a an AGM-65 at long range, the missile will track just fine until it gets to the target and then it will fly about two feet over the target, grazing it and hit the ground just on the other side. Has anyone else seen this?

[Mk84HDGP]

Yes indeed mate. It happened to me last weekend. Fired 2 MAVs and one of them just flew past the tank.

 

Target elevation perhaps?

[valorbrand]

I have not seen this. If you are slaving your mav to your SPI target, are you making sure you TMS up short to achieve a hard lock?

 

Being at long range, you really need to make sure you are within the firing parameters for the mav. I.e. crosshair within the bottom ladder (three horizontal lines) on the mav.

[WildFire]

Yeah they do know how to use it. You have to. I've never been able to lock a 65D farther than its limits and most of the time 7.6~7.4 is about the only time it will.

 

I also have seen it miss by meters. Not very often mind you but it has happened. I can only think of two reasons, wind problems affecting the flight model, or somehow ED modelled acceptable failure chances. I doubt the second one cause they would need solid evidence of mav's missing and that data AFAIK isnt available, or so its been said.

 

But yeah very occasionally they do miss.

[WildBillKelsoe]

I thought mavericks were standoff weapons against SAM/AAA threats. Why not use gun when the conditions are clean??

[Sceptre]

The AGM-65D has an 85% hit rate according to the US. Air Force.

[Sceptre]

I thought mavericks were standoff weapons against SAM/AAA threats. Why not use gun when the conditions are clean??

 

I find it hard to destroy tanks, especially the T-80, with the gun. Sometimes It's way easier to put a Maverick on it.

[Eddie]

I thought mavericks were standoff weapons against SAM/AAA threats. Why not use gun when the conditions are clean??

 

They are stand-off weapons for use against ANY target.

 

You shouldn't be wasting ordnance of any kind on air defences at all unless you HAVE to, your job in the A-10C is to kill/disrupt enemy ground forces that pose a threat to your ground forces. If you're spending your time on station and ordnance on attacking air defences, then those air defences are preventing you from attacking the armour and other threats to your ground forces.

 

And as the job of air defences is to stop you hitting your target, by going after them rather than what you should be going after, you're letting/helping the air defences do their job. You should be avoiding the A/D, not hunting it. ;)

[OutOnTheOP]

True, if you hunt ADA, they've done their job... against that one sortie. But (in real life) you (or another pilot) will have to dodge them the next sortie, and the next, and the next... and eventually they'll get to do their job by shooting someone out of the sky.

 

If you destroy that SA-8 or 2S6 today, you won't have to worry about him again tomorrow. There's something to be said for attritting enemy ADA.

 

...of course, if you're on a do-or-die, friendlies-about-to-be-overrun ECAS mission, then yeah, forget about the ADA, the ground forces need your ordnance, and they need it now.

[ralfidude]

Im trying to use my guns on any target I find if the zone allows for it, ie: No AA threat SAM wise, but AAA can kiss my ass, il still go guns blazing.

[159th_Viper]

I find it hard to destroy tanks, especially the T-80, with the gun. Sometimes It's way easier to put a Maverick on it.

 

Shoot it from above (40-50 degree dive at a range of 0.7-0.4nm). Takes about 70-100 rounds to kill a MBT.

[effte]

True, if you hunt ADA, they've done their job... against that one sortie. But (in real life) you (or another pilot) will have to dodge them the next sortie, and the next, and the next... and eventually they'll get to do their job by shooting someone out of the sky.

 

Enemy air defences deny use of the airspace to your side. If you need that airspace and cannot do without using it, then what you are saying is true.

 

If you can work around using that airspace, the above does not apply and you are probably often better off just leaving them alone, unless working around them is too taxing on your resources.

[Eddie]

True, if you hunt ADA, they've done their job... against that one sortie. But (in real life) you (or another pilot) will have to dodge them the next sortie, and the next, and the next... and eventually they'll get to do their job by shooting someone out of the sky.

 

If you destroy that SA-8 or 2S6 today, you won't have to worry about him again tomorrow. There's something to be said for attritting enemy ADA.

 

...of course, if you're on a do-or-die, friendlies-about-to-be-overrun ECAS mission, then yeah, forget about the ADA, the ground forces need your ordnance, and they need it now.

 

Indeed, nobody is going to complain if while carrying out your task you also take out a couple of SHORAD systems. But as I said, if you spend all your fuel and ordnance hunting AD they certainly will.

 

To put what I'm saying in to perspective, a typical Russian mechanized infantry brigade tank battalion (the very sort of armoured formation the A-10 was designed to take on) consists of:

51 T-72/T-80/T-90s

179 BMPs (mix of types)

3 BTR-80s, 22 BTR (R-145BM)

4 BRDMs

16 ACRVs

36 Self Propelled Guns

24 mortars

48 ATGM units (AT-4, AT-5 etc)

8 SA-15

6 SA-19

6 SA-13

60+ MANPADS

 

And that is just the one Tank Battalion, a mech infantry brigade has 2 or 3 or them and 3 or 4 IFV/APC battalion as well as supporting logistics/engineer/medical battalions. Mech battalion having similar numbers of MANPADS/SHORAD. And even worse, that is just the embedded AD, there will be additional SHORAD & MERAD firing batteries attached to the brigade itself or the geographic area. And then to make matters even worse, you'll have the LORAD systems and fighters on top of that!

 

Now with that in mind, if you still think going after the AD rather than killing your primary target and then getting the hell out of dodge is a good idea, go for it. ;)

 

If only more mission designers paid attention to realistic Russian orders of battle.

[Haukka81]

Indeed, nobody is going to complain if while carrying out your task you also take out a couple of SHORAD systems. But as I said, if you spend all your fuel and ordnance hunting AD they certainly will.

 

To put what I'm saying in to perspective, a typical Russian mechanized infantry brigade tank battalion (the very sort of armoured formation the A-10 was designed to take on) consists of:

51 T-72/T-80/T-90s

179 BMPs (mix of types)

3 BTR-80s, 22 BTR (R-145BM)

4 BRDMs

16 ACRVs

36 Self Propelled Guns

24 mortars

48 ATGM units (AT-4, AT-5 etc)

8 SA-15

6 SA-19

6 SA-13

60+ MANPADS

 

And that is just the one Tank Battalion, a mech infantry brigade has 2 or 3 or them and 3 or 4 IFV/APC battalion as well as supporting logistics/engineer/medical battalions. Mech battalion having similar numbers of MANPADS/SHORAD. And even worse, that is just the embedded AD, there will be additional SHORAD & MERAD firing batteries attached to the brigade itself or the geographic area. And then to make matters even worse, you'll have the LORAD systems and fighters on top of that!

 

Now with that in mind, if you still think going after the AD rather than killing your primary target and then getting the hell out of dodge is a good idea, go for it. ;)

 

If only more mission designers paid attention to realistic Russian orders of battle.

 

 

And if typical Russian mechanized infantry brigade is spawned all at once....kaput, your frame rate is dead... :megalol: DCS engine need's still work, it's bit heavy ... and cities are broblem too.. :megalol:

[Sierra99]

And if typical Russian mechanized infantry brigade is spawned all at once....kaput, your frame rate is dead... :megalol: DCS engine need's still work, it's bit heavy ... and cities are broblem too.. :megalol:

 

Awww for Pete's sake, don't hijack a thread about weapons by whining about frame rate, engine and cities... It's really getting old seeing the same people whining about the same things no matter what the thread is...

 

THAT being said, knowing what makes up a mechanized infantry brigage is far easier then placing on on the map. it'd be nice to be able to go into the mission editor and And say "I'd like a brigade, platoon, fire team etc and have it place all on the map at once and then sort them out...vs putting individual units on one at a time.

 

 

Gadgets

Edited June 10, 2012 by Sierra99
Spelling

[Executioner]

THAT being said, knowing what makes up a mechanized infantry brigage is far easier then placing on on the map. it'd be nice to be able to go into the mission editor and And say "I'd like a brigade, platoon, fire team etc and have it place all on the map at once and then sort them out...vs putting individual units on one at a time.

 

Gadgets

 

That's what Templates are for in the ME though (there's an example USA Patriot site in the ME if you go there in DCS World - probably in standard A10C/KA-50 v1.1.1.1 as well) :)

 

Martin...

[Harzach]

THAT being said, knowing what makes up a mechanized infantry brigage is far easier then placing on on the map. it'd be nice to be able to go into the mission editor and And say "I'd like a brigade, platoon, fire team etc and have it place all on the map at once and then sort them out...vs putting individual units on one at a time.

 

Check out Stuka's templates: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=82161

[Sierra99]

DOH!:doh:

 

Well would ya look at that! These are pretty neat! Many thanks to the people who made those!

 

Gadgets

[WildBillKelsoe]

Check out Stuka's templates: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=82161

 

HOLY SH1T!!! No way in hell would a single sortie work against those... not any of those.. On MP basis though, it would be nice for co-ordinated plan and workflow.

[Eddie]

On MP basis though, it would be nice for co-ordinated plan and workflow.

 

Indeed it is. You can take down most of a Russian armoured or mech infantry battalion (more than enough to render it combat ineffective) with anything between 40-60 flight hours depending on range from homeplate to AO. So with ~10 jets it's done in 1 or 2 missions, makes for one hell of an intense sortie, especially for the AFAC(s). :joystick: