Falcon version similar to FC2?

[SgtPappy]

Hello,

 

A lot of my friends who sim have fun with FC2, but they're all Viper fans. So I'm planning on finding a version of Falcon we can all play.

 

I know that Falcon is super realistic and difficult to learn, so if there's a version of Falcon that's similar to FC2 in terms of learning curve?

 

With Red Falcon, Falcon BMS and Free Falcon versions showing up on Google, I have no idea where to begin! Thanks for your help.

[Exorcet]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think pretty much everything based on Falcon 4.0 is more DCS like than FC like in terms of controls.

 

I've got Falcon 4.0 AF, and it does take a while to learn the switches and stuff, but it's not that bad. Having the buttons clearly labeled in the cockpit helps a lot.

[andysim]

:) BMS Falcon is frankly Brilliant!. Its well supported and stable (For me anyway). They are on the 3rd update so far and coming along nice. So much has changed since Falcon4AF. The graphics are far and above AF also. Its almost a whole new sim =)

[Cali]

:) BMS Falcon is frankly Brilliant!. Its well supported and stable (For me anyway). They are on the 3rd update so far and coming along nice. So much has changed since Falcon4AF. The graphics are far and above AF also. Its almost a whole new sim =)

 

+1, I couldn't fly in version of Falcon except BMS.

[SUBS17]

Same here BMS rocks.

[falcon_120]

BMS all the way,easiest to install and rock solid,no CTD so far.

But don't expect it to be easy,it tries to reproduce an F-16c block 50 the best

it can.

[hreich]

Prepare to read-a-lot if you are going with the BMS

[SgtPappy]

Alright, BMS it is.

 

In terms of the reading and what I need to know, would the regular Falcon 4.0 manual do?

[Yskonyn]

Well the regular manual does not help with the avionics anymore I am afraid.

It's a nice reference for air combat and tactics as well as broad pointers on how to use the mission editor, but that's about it.

[SgtPappy]

Ok, I suppose I'll have to look up a new manual for BMS. Now to find it...

 

Also, I can't seem to find a definitive site on BMS. I know the game models the F-16CJ, but are AIM-7's useable at all in-game? I'm just a sucker for semi-actives because my favorite variant of the plane is the F-16 ADF.

[MTFDarkEagle]

BMS Website: http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php

[cichlidfan]

Ok, I suppose I'll have to look up a new manual for BMS. Now to find it...

 

Also, I can't seem to find a definitive site on BMS.

 

http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?

[JCook]

As with DCS A10C the Falcon 4 BMS learning curve is steep. But the reward pays off once you learn the systems.

 

There is a documents folder under the BMS install that has lots of reading material. You can also check some of the virtual squadrons - some will share their squadron docs with the public - others will rquire you to join first. The virtual squadrons are also a good way to get trained interactively.

[SgtPappy]

I just downloaded all the files and I'll probably install them all this weekend.

 

Now I'm excited to start flying... and I assume since this is a really in-depth sim that - unlike FC2 - the velocity of the launch platform does affect the missile's kinetic energy, right?

 

That's always something that's bothered me about FC2.

[mvsgas]

How will the missile "kinetic energy" change with aircraft speed? The missile max speed will not change, missile will get to max speed quicker, but that is it.

[SgtPappy]

I was always under the impression that the missile would physically launch at the same speed as the aircraft, which I thought was an important parameter in BVR combat... No?

 

I'm not sure, but do missiles reach maximum speed simply by the power of their rocket motors? As we all know, airborne devices technically have drag-limited speed especially as thrust decreases with speed. Because I often read that the "max. speeds" of missiles are, for example, Mach 2.5 + speed of the launch platform, suggesting that the missile's max speed is not reached ever under its own power.

Edited August 8, 2012 by SgtPappy

[mvsgas]

No

[SgtPappy]

Hmm. My whole life is a lie!

[mvsgas]

Well, I will be back tonight. Could you explain

How will the missile "kinetic energy" change with aircraft speed?

 

If the missile has a max speed, how does the aircraft launch speed affect it?.

How long or how fast will the missile reach max speed if launch aircraft is at 500 knots and compare it how long will it take if the aircraft was faster?

Source document would be prefer, an actual air force (any air force) manual that says x missile will reach y speed if launch at z speed. etc

[SgtPappy]

I don't have a source, I was only told this by other members and assumed it made sense. But I think I know what you mean, now that I've thought of it analytically.

 

Unless the rocket motor creates more thrust somehow, it won't be maintaining the extra launch speed of the platform, as drag and rocket thrust will limit its maximum attainable speed.

 

However, if you go to this thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=89750&highlight=missile+launch+speed&page=3

 

the launch platform speed is discussed, but perhaps our discussion there is flawed in the same way.

[GGTharos]

Platform speed will affect the peak speed of the missile, and so will altitude.

 

The rocket operates for a given amount of time with a given amount of thrust (subject to altitude ie. air density ... the higher you are, the longer it operates and the more thrust is generated, IIRC.).

 

The final speed at rocket burn-out thus depends on air resistance (ie. air density), thrust, and time of operation of the rocket engine. Basic physics.

 

However, what you actually can do with this increase in speed is quite delicate and must be planned carefully ... most people will see no difference because of their launch and post-launch tactics, or lack thereof.

[Exorcet]

Max speeds are (sometimes) a lie. It's not just a hard number. Aircraft speed does affect missile energy. A missile might not have enough propellent to reach max speed, or the energy boost from the aircraft could let it reach a higher altitude where drag is lower, etc, etc.

[Eddie]

Missile speed/range does change with the launch aircraft speed, and the change is quite significant between low subsonic speeds and high supersonic speeds.

 

Missiles, like any object will go faster when more acceleration is applied. The ONLY absolute speed limit is the speed of light, anything else can and does vary depending on other factors.

 

Missiles do not have a single physical MAX speed, they may have a max speed quoted in the documents, but just like quoted max range, it varies greatly depending on factors such as launch speed and altitude.

 

To put it simply, think of standing still and throwing a ball, then consider throwing the same ball from a car moving at 60mph. Do both balls travel at the same initial velocity? No, or course not, the one thrown from a moving platform will initially travel faster. More energy = more speed, simples.

[SgtPappy]

@ Eddie: That's because tennis balls don't have propellant which fires them to maximum speed after they're thrown, and this is the big reason.

 

From mvsgas' explanation, the launch platform should not affect the maximum speed. But if I can be proven wrong with my following thought process, please show me, because I'm still learning. Here's my example:

 

Say we control EVERYTHING except the missile itself. I.e. let's make the launch platform an F-15, armed with 2 Sparrows flying at maximum Mach of M = 2.3 in a straight, horizontal line at 35,500'. Also, let's say that a Sparrow fired from V=0, horizontally under its own power at this same altitude attains a peak Mach number at rocket burn-out of 2.6.

 

Let's now take the F-15 and launch the Sparrow from it. From the conservation of momentum, the AIM-7 will then be flying at about the same Mach number as the Eagle; namely M~2.3. The rocket then fires and accelerates the AIM-7 to its maximum Mach of M = 2.6. How, now, would the missile fly faster? It wouldn't because the maximum speed has been attained, and nothing the aircraft did before the rocket motor burned out can do anything about that UNLESS the launch platform launches the missile at a higher speed than the missile can attain under its own power.

[Exorcet]

In that case, they both reach M2.6, but there is no garuntee that that the Sparrow launched from 0 speed will be able to reach M2.6 on internal fuel.