Smaller sun for DCS World

[BigfootMSR]

*Attempts to add a splash of humor*

 

Personally, it looks to me like you have some mud on your windshield and are seeing the occlusion from the mud particles :P

[PeterP]

Thanks -I have finally the whole picture : noting-less or more what I wanted to see !

Thank you.

 

 

@ all

Please post when you have similar problems !

I want to find out how to reproduce this and fix this flickering.

 

I also updated post #41.

 

 

@Bigfoot

 

Not kidding:

I will install one of these "dirty wind-shield" mods for the Ka-50 tomorrow to have a look how it works with this mod.

Edited August 12, 2012 by PeterP

[Corrigan]

*Attempts to add a splash of humor*

 

Personally, it looks to me like you have some mud on your windshield and are seeing the occlusion from the mud particles :P

 

 

Well, what are you waiting for? ;)

[BigfootMSR]

While I would love to say this "muddy windshield" is limited to corrigan, alas, I too have one...

 

In game settings as follows:

Everything on HIGH, 1920x1080, 16:9, 1 screen, 512 c.pit res, MSAA 8x, HDR normal, aero disabled, vsync off, full screen, c.pit shadows on, TSSAA (not sure what this is to be honest) Running world 1.2.0. I am using PeterP's stock Sun mod, latest version.

 

Computer Settings:

Win 7 pro 64bit, i7 960 quad core 3.2ghz, 24gb of ram, GTX 480 fermi driver 301.42 (latest nvidia driver), 2TB HDD space.

 

As a side note, I was unable to run this mod in the multi-player client. The game crashes on me while trying to connect to the master server. Not multi-player safe?

 

I will be running some tests and what not to see if I can find something that works, anything you would like me to try PeterP just ask.

 

Test 2 (Try vsync on) Problem persists.

 

Test 3 (try with disable aero interface on Vsync off) Problem persists.

 

I did not actually think those would work, but I gave them a shot anyways. Provided you are using the default FOV, no flickering occurs. Any point behind that, and you can see some flickering.

 

*Just my own thoughts* The flickering is caused by the layer that "blinds" you. rays.tga? It will momentarily blink on and off again. This effect in some instances can be seen rounded at the lower edges of the screen and corners. Possibly a problem with "iris" effect of the sun? All speculation mind you. Will look at other things to try tomorrow. Its past 1am for me

Flicker_Test.trk

Edited August 12, 2012 by BigfootMSR
Track file didnt upload

[Corrigan]

As a side note, I was unable to run this mod in the multi-player client. The game crashes on me while trying to connect to the master server. Not multi-player safe?

 

This is an unrelated issue, I dare say:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=92748

 

It's intermittent, so if you got the impression that removing the mod cured it, it's easy to see why.

[zzzspace]

Can we just call it an involuntary squint-blink reflex, that's been brilliantly modelled and included as a FEATURE, from looking at the sun for much too long already. :D

[BigfootMSR]

I am aware of the issues people are having with the connection problem. I will point out however, I have NEVER had a connection issue or crash until I installed this mod. That being said, as part of my testing, I did revert to the original DCS files which connected just fine and also connected fine when I reinstalled the mod. I'm going to have to chalk this one up as a coincidence.

 

BTW: Test 1 results (restore original sun files and test for flicker) No flicker found. (I previously was not using HDR effects to notice if the problem was pre-existing or not)

 

A random thought. I have not had a reason yet to check out what exactly SoftTH does and how its used. Is it possible that Helios/ SoftTH could be affecting this somehow? Have you tried testing this with SoftTH and helios off?

Edited August 12, 2012 by BigfootMSR

[Corrigan]

I'd say that it's a coincidence that you haven't had the master server crash before, as that seems almost ubiquitous among users, at least everybody I've flown with.

 

Are you getting the flicker in the same situation as I? I.e. looking into the sun?

[BigfootMSR]

Yes Corrigan. I am experiencing the same flickering problem that you showed in your videos.

Edited August 12, 2012 by BigfootMSR

[Corrigan]

The best work-around I've found is to make the sun slightly bigger again (still way better than the original) and/or using a slightly more aggressive HDR setting.

I'd love to find a way to make the solar disc more highly resolved and see if that solves it. I suppose it's too much to ask that a dev or someone who knows how the engine works would comment?

[PeterP]

A random thought. I have not had a reason yet to check out what exactly SoftTH does and how its used. Is it possible that Helios/ SoftTH could be affecting this somehow? Have you tried testing this with SoftTH and helios off?

 

No - at least I could tell that it is definitely not SoftTh.

 

To be more clear on this: When I get a graphical bug that causes a CTD while I'm using SoftTH I can always track it down via the SoftTh.logs to be a DCS caused problem - and I'm also able to trigger it again when using only DCS while replaying the situation/or having a track.

This is most of the times the effects.dll and it is already many times reported and acknowledged by testers.

 

 

would be nice if some of you would post your me.log/crash.log to shade some light into it.

 

 

I'm right now connecting to every open server in MP and I had no crash up to now.

 

I tested now 4 of 13 1.2.0 servers . --just jumping in a vehicles and locking around to see if the sun is working like expected or just joining the spectators to have a look around.- well some of them are set up in the night so I don't see it as real test ... but three of them where at day and everything was fine for me.

 

Please don't get me wrong: I don't want to say that you are hallucinating... I just don't share your experience/observation.

 

I got many positive feedback via PM/reputation from ED-testers and I'm sure that some of them would have already notified me about it if this would be common...

 

 

Here is a capture that shows me in a cockpit of a A-10 on a public server while the "realistic Sun 1.2.1" is active. this was 5 min ago while I was typing this massage.

 

[Aries]

Does this mod come in place of Diveplanes Smaller Sunmod?

 

http://files.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/202346/?sphrase_id=161737

[Corrigan]

That mod is a smaller version of another he made, and it's just a sun flare texture for the normal sized sun. This mod actually makes the sun smaller.

[PeterP]

Does this mod come in place of Diveplanes Smaller Sunmod?

 

http://files.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/202346/?sphrase_id=161737

 

No - not at all . or Yes ...it is a "replacement".

 

Maybe I don't get the meaning of your question.

Let me explain:

 

This mod changes the shaders - Diveplanes mod only the "texture".

They may be compatible but you will need a heavily reworked Ray.tga to make Diveplanes mod work with the smaller sun - but I really don't know - this is only a guess - I never tried his mod.I only looked at pictures of others and the files.

 

serious - I tried myself so many Rays.tga variants that I can't hardly believe how there can be a much better that I have made.

 

but for this case I also included the original layered Gimp file so others can try them-self to create a different appearance of the sun. but be warned: what looks good at day time can be looking bad at dusk/dawn and vice versa.

It was a tough job to get the right balance... But I'm by no means a expert in editing images I'm just a autodidact that is lucky some time.

So others my have a better hand on this.

Edited August 12, 2012 by PeterP

[Devrim]

I really don't understand. Can it be change depens on each different situation, weather, noon or somethig like that?

 

This mod was working for me (without flickers), but last 30 mins. Now it works properly only in WARM HDR setting. In other modes, it's like below (Print Screen from "Shooting Range" mission).

 

 

To be sure, I copied files many times. Later I copied orijinal files, it's OK. Then copied v1.2.1 files again and again. That's the result.

[Corrigan]

What do you mean is wrong with the image you posted? That the colours look darker/washed out? This is normal behaviour of HDR -- it tries to model the response of the human eye to varying lighting conditions. Stare at a bright light, and the iris will contract, letting through less light.

 

If you were to angle the camera in the picture above, so that the sun was behind the helicopter, you'd notice that after a while the brightness would rise again.

 

Or is that not your problem?

[Devrim]

No, the problem is not the one that you mentioned.

 

The wrong thing is the shape of sun. It's not perfect circle.

[PeterP]

@Devrim

 

[Edit start]

That the sun isn't a perfect circle (or better - the glow) doesn't lies in my hands....

It gets "perfect" again when you raise the size to the old values....

(I tried many things to get it "round" -but without luck - this is how the shaders are coded and maybe also one of the reasons why ED decided to leave it big and oversized...

- well I don't notice it so much as I use a much higher res than the average user >3840x1790 - so it is much rounder at my screen than at someone that uses 1680x1050....

[Edit end]

 

Please read the read me especially the part about external views and how to change the HDR "kick in" point.

 

In more detail:

All external views start at a FOV of 60°

(defined in the DCS World\Config\View\View.lua line#206)

- much more zoomed in as you may have it in the cockpit... you can change the zoom/FOV of the external view via holding R-Ctrl while zooming.

 

So as conclusion: the HDR is much stronger at 60°

as your ~80° in the cockpit. And you also have no darker cockpit structure around you/in the scene that also makes the HDR less responsive.

 

Just to let you know: the darkening is much more worse with the original files.

Use the backup and see yourself - you probably never paid much attention to it before.

:)

Edited August 12, 2012 by PeterP

[Devrim]

I paid attention to the sun's shape. Atached image contains orjiginal sun of DCS World. It's edge seems usual to me. Of course its circle is not perfect either, but not like the one shown in my post above (#141). Its edge is like bad-resized fotos.

 

 

I'm not sure, if I get you right though. Anyway, may be I'll work on "skyQuad.fx" to suit it for me. I don't want you to have headache because of me. :)

 

By the way; I thought this issue was a resolution matter. The resolution of "rays.png" and "rays.tga" files can be increased? (or am I talking nonsense? :D)

 

EDIT: I just read your edit text. Ok my friend. Thank you.

[Corrigan]

As I mentioned before, the relative resolution of the sun is now much less -- the engine now has less pixels to make a disc.

If you want to see how it works, just temporarily rename or move rays.tga, and then watch the sun.

[BigfootMSR]

PeterP, don't fret over the crashing thing. I'm sure it was just a fluke. I was just writing out my experiences as they were happening.

 

I'm not sure what to do with the flicker, but since I use a trackIR and usually the default FOV, i am not concerned about the flickering too much. The sun still looks MUCH better than the default.

[Corrigan]

As I see it, there are two work-arounds to the flickering.

(This is of course subject to monitor setup. My tests have been performed on a single 1680*1050 monitor.)

 

First we must determine when it occurs. I've seen it in other situations, rarely, but most often it appears when facing the sun. We will assume that it is enough to treat this situation.

Now, we have two options:

 

One is to use a high HDR strength such that scenes in general are overly illuminated. This will cause the point of the flickering starting further out (larger FOV), because the engine will apply max HDR where the flickering would otherwise occur (at lower HDR strength). If you don't mind a strong blinding effect when looking towards the sun, and seldom are far zoomed out, this may work well.

 

The other solution is to use a weak HDR setting, so that scenes are under-lit (as compared to the default HDR settings). This will push the point-of-flickering forward (smaller FOV).

This also has the added benefit of decreasing the magnitude of the flickering, which makes it my preferred method.

This is good if you don't mind a lighter-than-default HDR, and don't often spend time zoomed far in.

 

Hopefully this image illustrates it in an understandable way:

 

 

 

The variable to change for this HDR setting is this one:

(Note that I called it HDR strength, I'm not sure what it really does. It seems to make the HDR effect stronger or weaker in magnitude, and also possibly affect the time of adjustment.)

 

 

\DCS World\Bazar\shaders\sky\skyQuad.fx

 

Line 49: Out.cOut.xyz = tex2D(mySampler, tex0) + step(0.4, D) * 300 * HDR;

 

 

The value is set to 300 in Peter's mod, and to 24 (I think) for the stock sun size. I found that around 4-600 is a good start for a stronger HDR work-around, and 20-50 (I use 30) is a good region for the weaker style. I recommend those who suffer from this issue to experiment with this setting (and not touching the others) and finding something that suits you.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Corrigan

[AceKng1]

I can confirm that this solved my flickering problems. At 300 I was getting flickering around the edges of my screen even without zooming out. This may have been because of my large overall resolution (4080x1595). I set the value to 500 and the flickering completely stopped. Thanks for this great mod PeterP!

[Corrigan]

Glad to hear you got it to work! I'm sorry to say, though, that I suspect the flickering will still be there, at some point in your zoom spectrum. Although, if it's in a place you don't often visit, so to speak, you should be fine!

[AceKng1]

Glad to hear you got it to work! I'm sorry to say, though, that I suspect the flickering will still be there, at some point in your zoom spectrum. Although, if it's in a place you don't often visit, so to speak, you should be fine!

 

I never actually zoom out as my standard sitting position is as far back as I can go. If by increasing the HDR strength I have pushed the flickering window to an even wider FOV then I should hopefully never see it.

 

I've flown about 5 hours since doing this (I actually changed this setting yesterday purely for the HDR effect not knowing it would help with the flickering) and have not seen any flickering since!