Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar

[leafer]

yes that's a good price but that's where the fun ends. :D

 

Buy a CH and you'll never have to worry about spending another dime on your expensive HOTAS. Trust me cuz I used to own both.

 

However, if you live where labor is extremely cheap, and you're willing to learn a CAD program then you can design and pay someone to build you a mod for your Cougar. It's not that difficult and it won't cause you 200++ dollars for something that can be had for around $100.

[Pilotasso]

This thread makes me remenber of all the TM joysticks I ever had.

In the old days I bought one of those F-4 replicas Sticks form TM, and I bought several versions of it through the years (that replica must have had like 20 different versions, top-gun, X-fighter etc).

 

I always had precision problems with them. And all of them broke away.

 

Once I was manuevering so hard I ended up with the stick on my hand and the base on the desk.

Another time I noticed how the return to center force was "inacurate". I opened it and it turned out that the srping holders were broke for months with the return to center tension given only by the sicks rubber sealant.

 

I wonder how a brand like TM became so mythical with so poor interior construction. All those sticks were realy under engineered for the kind of forces involved and simply were not durable.

 

After that I migrated over to microsoft hardware (gulp!) but after erection problems (:biggrin: ) of my MS force feedback 2 stick I turned back on it and searched for some kind of HOTAS. X45 was too expensive at the time for what it was and CH HOTAS was not sold on my country then (its still very hard to find them anywhere $$$$), so I was left with no other choice but to make an unexpected comeback over to TM.

 

Got my Afterburner 2 but the damn thing seems to be very weak. Its tension is very low (maybe the reason why its not broken yet) and that force is not consistent with deflection or direction of deflection. My deadzones are almost the size of my fist!

 

Either I have precision or dead tension, or too much of it, and with large deadzones and durability problems. I have yet to find a pleasant stick to handle with enough precisions and configured as a HOTAS. Unfortunatly all candidates are either expensive or look like they came out of a series B sci fi movie.

[VMFA-Blaze]

It's made of metal alright but... the inside is crap (although also made of metal). If that 234$ is all you have to spend, ask if you may "feel" the Cougar before buying. Because if you're not used to the strange feel when going over the axis (due to the type of springs and the internal setup), you could be in for a nice surprice when you get home (at least, i was).

 

Well It seem's you guys are still kicking this around.....

 

The Cougar insides aren't crap at all.

I know this first hand as I replaced all of my buttons and switches just recently.....

 

And the only reason that I did this was because after three years of intensive flight simming the paint on the authentic metal parts were showing a little wear....

 

I had contacted Thrustmaster and recieved a complete set for free, I just had to pay for shipping, and as far as I'm concerned this is outstanding customer service.....

 

The mod that is available through Frugals forum is actually done by IJ and he's been doing this since the release of the most recent Cougar...

 

He's very professional and his design is awsome I might add but its not really needed...

 

The stick fuctions well right out of the box, although the springs are hard and take a little getting used to.....

 

Now I've stated my view point here and on the UBI website several times and have been flamed for it....

 

But in light of my above statements I'm standing strong on this and I'm proud and very happy to own the best commercially available flight stick and throttle available....

 

 

Blaze

[Guest ruggbutt]

I'm proud and very happy to own the best commercially available flight stick and throttle available....

Me too! CH Fighterstick and Pro Throttle. ;)

[Guest IguanaKing]

Same here, CH Fighterstick and Pro Throttle. :D

[VMFA-Blaze]

Me too! CH Fighterstick and Pro Throttle. ;)

 

 

I didn't say CH I said Cougar......

[Prophet_169th]

Well It seem's you guys are still kicking this around.....

 

The Cougar insides aren't crap at all.

I know this first hand as I replaced all of my buttons and switches just recently.....

 

And the only reason that I did this was because after three years of intensive flight simming the paint on the authentic metal parts were showing a little wear....

 

I had contacted Thrustmaster and recieved a complete set for free, I just had to pay for shipping, and as far as I'm concerned this is outstanding customer service.....

 

The mod that is available through Frugals forum is actually done by IJ and he's been doing this since the release of the most recent Cougar...

 

He's very professional and his design is awsome I might add but its not really needed...

 

The stick fuctions well right out of the box, although the springs are hard and take a little getting used to.....

 

Now I've stated my view point here and on the UBI website several times and have been flamed for it....

 

But in light of my above statements I'm standing strong on this and I'm proud and very happy to own the best commercially available flight stick and throttle available....

 

 

Blaze

 

I just recently bought a Cougar, upgraded from an X45.

 

Superb stick. I dont mind the heavier springs at all.

 

Nothing at all to complain about.

[33 309th_Hedgehog]

(I own the Cougar for about 2 weeks - had the X-45 before)

 

The best thing for me (beside Style, feeling, accuracy,..) are the programming possibilities.

 

2 Points for example:

One Button for Flaps Down (Up):

- press Btn T3 once = flaps 50%. press it again (or longer in the first step) = flaps 100%.

- Btn T2 is the same for Flaps Up.

I hate the different keys in LOMAC for Flaps Down/ Full Down. (This is similar to F6/ F5 in MS FlightSim)

 

Security Button for critical operations

I defined a SEC-Btn which you will have to press in conjunction with S3 for

• Engine Start/Stop
  
• Eject
  
• Drop Weapons
  
• Drop Fuel Tanks

This prevents you against accidently "loosing your weapons" on your way.

 

Profile & Doc for download:

 

(Documentation should be self explained and uses the command names of the LOMAC key definitions - if you have probs with a german word you may find either: tell me and I will translate it ;)

[BBushe]

from what I read, my cougar lasted an unusually long time on it's original pots, but after replacing them with hall sensors and the internals with IJ's nxt2 mod (see link earlier in thread), the stick is improved incredibly.

 

to the original question: is it worth $234, that depends on whether you can afford it. I think it is and it's also worth the extra money for the hall sensors and mod, if you can afford it. Altogether its a one time investment that's shouldn't ever need replacing.

 

But it all you can afford is the $234, I'd seriously consider the CH products stuff, which isn't anywhere near as sexy, but is probably more durable, comfortable and usable out of the box.

[Lange_666]

Well It seem's you guys are still kicking this around.....

 

The Cougar insides aren't crap at all.

I know this first hand as I replaced all of my buttons and switches just recently.....Blaze

 

I have the right to kick it around since i own a Cougar and have an IJ U2 mod (first run) after i modded it myself (pics are still up in the condenced Mods & Tweaks section) and all i can say is "WOW" compared to the original stock gimbals inside a Cougar. The main reason why i find the original gimbals crap is not the wear (which was minor on mine with only a little center play) but crappy "feel" when moving the stick around. Even my own mod was ten times better then the original setup when it came down to "feel".

 

And regarding IJ's succes, i'm not the only one who thinks so...

[SimFreak]

That price is cheap, but that is only half of a problem. The other half is if a user (you) will like the feel of it. The best solution is to find a local simmer and get yourself invited to his house. If you say, - “I’m thinking of buying a Cougar, but would like to feel it before purchase”, no one would refuse.

I had enlightened one simmer over my setup and he is now looking to get same setup. (Cougar, CH-Rudders Pro, TrackIR3-Pro) :D

[Guest IguanaKing]

I didn't say CH I said Cougar......

 

I think that part was understood...some of us just have a different opinion as to what the best commercially available stick is. ;)

[Yellonet]

It's made of metal alright but... the inside is crap (although also made of metal). If that 234$ is all you have to spend, ask if you may "feel" the Cougar before buying. Because if you're not used to the strange feel when going over the axis (due to the type of springs and the internal setup), you could be in for a nice surprice when you get home (at least, i was).

 

So if you want a Cougar and have a bit more to spend then 234$, look out for a mod, or make one yourself, and you get the best damn stick & throttle that's available right now... modded, it is just SUPERB !!!

Mod's: http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=35029

"strange feel when going over the axis" :confused: What do you mean?

[Lange_666]

"strange feel when going over the axis" :confused: What do you mean?

 

Well, due to the Cougars gimball design (the combo of metal, springs, pots and stuff that make up the internal of the Coug and make it move/work) uses a rather strange setup of springs. On the Frugals Cougar forum are a few pics of this type of springs but i couldn't find them right away. They are 2-way springs so one spring can be used in 2 directions. You can call it springs with a deadzone. One spring is used for the X-axis and the other for the Y-axis.

When you move the stick left (-X), you put presure on the left side of the X-axis spring and not on the right side. So far so good, but when you move the stick to the right now (+X) you feel the presure of the spring go to zero again (from -X to the center point) and building it up again but now on the other side, the +X side of the spring. You can clearly "feel" that transition when going through the center of the X-axis, in this case from -X over center point to + X. It feels like a little bump.

You have the same on the Y-axis (vertical movement).

Now imagine that you push the stick forward left. In that case you build up presure on the -X X-axis spring and +Y on the Y-axis spring. You have to use double the force to push the stick in a combined XY direction then you have to in a single axis direction. And everytime you move the stick over one of both axis, you feel that bump. This means that moving the stick around means that you have to apply various variations in force + extra force to overcome the deadzone etc...

All in all, i found this horrible and quickly made it a 4-spring stick based on Scamps idea (still in the Mods & Tweaks condensed topic over at Frugals but the pics have gone, link: see above)+ a little extra to remove the centerplay "every" stock Cougar has.

I can't explain it better in english.

A 4-spring stick does not have the problems mentioned above (keep in mind that most cheap stick only use 1 center spring).

IJ then came up with a moddification called the U2 (now improved to the U2 Next) which gave the Cougar totaly new internals, 4-springs and Hall sensors instead of pots. It's amazing how precise the stick has become with that mod in place and i know not a single Cougar owner who upgraded to a U2 (or an Evenstrain) who reverted back to his old setup....none!!!

Drawback is that you have to add another 300$ to get the mod + sensors at your frontdoor.

 

Therefore: If you can't afford the mod, try the stock Cougar before you buy!!

 

PS: It's not because a stick is cheap that it is bad. I used a Microsoft stick for almost 4 years but it lost a lot of it's capability's when Microsoft decided not to rewrite the software to program it. This made it a ordinairy DirectX stick and from 16 programmable buttons, it went down to 9. This was not enough for my taste and therefore looked out for something new which turned out to be a Cougar. At first, without moddification, it sucked big time (imho) and it wasn't value for money at all in my eyes considering the price. With mod, the price roared skyhigh but it's value increased a lot more.

[Pilotasso]

My stick (TM afterburnerII) feels loose near the center and the lateral tension is next o nill in full pitch...go figure LOL

[Yellonet]

Well, due to the Cougars gimball design (the combo of metal, springs, pots and stuff that make up the internal of the Coug and make it move/work) uses a rather strange setup of springs. On the Frugals Cougar forum are a few pics of this type of springs but i couldn't find them right away. They are 2-way springs so one spring can be used in 2 directions. You can call it springs with a deadzone. One spring is used for the X-axis and the other for the Y-axis.

When you move the stick left (-X), you put presure on the left side of the X-axis spring and not on the right side. So far so good, but when you move the stick to the right now (+X) you feel the presure of the spring go to zero again (from -X to the center point) and building it up again but now on the other side, the +X side of the spring. You can clearly "feel" that transition when going through the center of the X-axis, in this case from -X over center point to + X. It feels like a little bump.

You have the same on the Y-axis (vertical movement).

Now imagine that you push the stick forward left. In that case you build up presure on the -X X-axis spring and +Y on the Y-axis spring. You have to use double the force to push the stick in a combined XY direction then you have to in a single axis direction. And everytime you move the stick over one of both axis, you feel that bump. This means that moving the stick around means that you have to apply various variations in force + extra force to overcome the deadzone etc...

All in all, i found this horrible and quickly made it a 4-spring stick based on Scamps idea (still in the Mods & Tweaks condensed topic over at Frugals but the pics have gone, link: see above)+ a little extra to remove the centerplay "every" stock Cougar has.

A 4-spring stick does not have the problems mentioned above (keep in mind that most cheap stick only use 1 center spring).

IJ then came up with a moddification called the U2 (now improved to the U2 Next) which gave the Cougar totaly new internals, 4-springs and Hall sensors instead of pots. It's amazing how precise the stick has become with that mod in place and i know not a single Cougar owner who upgraded to a U2 (or an Evenstrain) who reverted back to his old setup....none!!!

Drawback is that you have to add another 300$ to get the mod + sensors at your frontdoor.

 

Therefore: If you can't afford the mod, try the stock Cougar before you buy!!

Thanks... sounds a bit weird in stock design :(

Now I don't know.... $500-$600 for a HOTAS sounds a bit steep :(

And somehow I don't really like the idea of having mods in my stick that some forumites have made... I'm sure they are of good quality and such but none the less...

[Slammin]

The Nxt2 mod Ian makes is nothing less than genious. Really, if you can't afford a Cougar and the mod, you probably will be better off going CH. And the only reason I say that is because a stock Cougar is no fun with anything other than flight sims. You can forget about using it for something like Mech Warrior or any kind of fast action space sim unless you get the mod.

 

There is nothing better available than a modded Cougar. Period.

[Yellonet]

The Nxt2 mod Ian makes is nothing less than genious. Really, if you can't afford a Cougar and the mod, you probably will be better off going CH. And the only reason I say that is because a stock Cougar is no fun with anything other than flight sims. You can forget about using it for something like Mech Warrior or any kind of fast action space sim unless you get the mod.

 

There is nothing better available than a modded Cougar. Period.

Well I wouldn't be using it for anything but flight sims.

[Pilotasso]

I also fly space SIM's. Still have wing commander MOD for Freespace2. ;)

[LawnDart]

Thanks... sounds a bit weird in stock design :(

Now I don't know.... $500-$600 for a HOTAS sounds a bit steep :(

And somehow I don't really like the idea of having mods in my stick that some forumites have made... I'm sure they are of good quality and such but none the less...

 

I know what you mean about putting 3rd party mods in an expensive stick like the Cougar, but I can honestly tell you that any of the mods (and the NXT in particular) which you can find on Cougar World are nothing but the very best in the world! Bottom line is that these mods have FAR better quality, made by skilled craftsmen than anything you'll find made from any company. I didn't like the idea myself until I tried it, but the precision and quality these mods have outshine the stock parts in a big way! I've also heard good things about the force sensor mods (FCC's and FSSB's) and I'm about to get a 2nd Cougar modded with one of these. To backtrack just a tad, I'd still fly the stock Cougar any day over any other joysticks if I didn't have the funds to buy a mod and these sticks are not made for anything but flight simming anyways, so I wouldn't worry about using a Cougar for other games...

 

LD

[Yellonet]

I know what you mean ...

I know that they are of good quality, but still... it's just some personal psychological problem I guess :icon_conf

I might get a stock one first and then mod it later on...

[BBushe]

buy the cougar, it's great.

 

Hall sensors are more precise than any normal potentiometers (and they never wear out), and IJ's mod makes the original system look crude. I have some pictures of the original system from when I did my mod if you want them. I'd have to post them somewhere I think, or I could email you.

[BuzzU]

I know what you mean ...

 

 

If you're interested i'm selling a Cougar modded with the R2 FSSB mod. It's in brand new condition and was hardly used. It also has the trigger mod, Hall sensors mod for the throttle, sticky throttle fixed, and IJ's aluminum housings for the speedbrake and DF switch. I also have some Simped F16 pedals in brand new condition.

[Guest ruggbutt]

If you're interested i'm selling a Cougar

I saw that coming a mile away.

[Yellonet]

I'm not interested, thanks.

But why are you selling?