Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[maddabboyahoo.com]

Those values work great for me at any 16:10 res.

The tracking is very good with opentrack. I dont use nthus at all with stereo and haven't gotten the latest version to work with dcs steam. I have win8.1 which breaks nthusims desktop from working.

 

Opentrack is using the rifts tracking and turning it into track IR 3dof. It's pretty darn good not differant for me from any oculus rdy title. Iracing and lunar flight both drift the same amount after calibration as does opentrack.

 

I was able to use xpadder and or autohotkey to setup mouse and keyboard macros for my stick. Initially i made my hat into the mouse motion and a button for mouse click. Then I added the center command from openflight to another joybutton. Inside DCS I added slow zoom in and out to 2 more buttons and zoom reset to another button.

 

So now with the joystick I can select things in the cockpit with the mouse on my stick. I can look around naturally like any oculus game same quality 3DOF. I can rescenter view zoom in and out and reset.

 

It works great.

 

I feel im not using the mouse on stick much and could easily reach my mouse for cockpit clicks so I will likely reclaim that hat for things and use the real mouse. I also have no trouble typing blind and using my keyboard with rift on but I'm an average typer without looking without the rift so I don't need ot see I just need to quickly touch and feel layout.

 

My biggest gripes currently with my current DCS play is clicking in cockpit is not nearly as accurate in stereo as single screen and so it's hard to use the click cockpit.

 

Performance is also not optimized to render like this so fps is too low with acceptable detail.

I think these things will improve. But I'm very happy with it now and easily place it with lunar flight

iracing

portal

mirrors edge

rof

 

all of which are great rift experiences.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

This is completely tunable with zoom in dcs right now.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

One of the biggest problems I've seen so far in cockpit demos for the rift is that the sense of scale in the cockpit is way off.You feel like an infant in the seat. Here is a perfect example of bad sense of scale to look at if you have a rift.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjbpdo0QNTg

 

Here is a good example of the cockpit feeling just about right

 

You can tune this fine in dcs right now with zoom

 

not sure you can save or set ideal default fov

Looking for that now

[blksolo]

I tried your settings and it was a lot better than before,but still a little bit off,I think the views also have to be distorted/bowed a bit to have the proper viewpoint.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

hey you guys who are using oculus rift DK1...

i like to ask,

HOW IS THE SCALE OF DCS WORLD?

 

im worried that once the consumer version is out, DCS will be far from ready..

especially in terms of scale where you end up feeling like a 5 foot midget in an aircraft...

(it has happened to HAWKEN)

or if DCS world like a scale model which the pilot is a giant in a huge plane and crimea is 1/10 (or double) the size of how it is in real life...

 

comments!

 

It feels like your in a real cockpit real size in a real world.

your teleported inside your current dcs monitor and the scale is all good.

 

There are two major things the make the rift a game changing experience IMHO.

 

1 the full coverage of your entire fov with game graphics. You are teleported into the game. It's happening in stereo 3d around you. It's the difference of going to the grand canyon and taking some pictures there. While you were there it was all around you everywhere you looked. The monitor is only a small picture of the grand world. It looking through a straw.

 

2 the head tracking is 1:1 not amplified. You look back over your shoulder and the camera is matched at that angle not a small movement amplified. This is pretty awesome for dogfighting or ground pounding

 

The problem is your near sighted or you haven't clean your helmet EVER. Your basically reverting to games about when max res was 1024x768. These games looked were okay back in the day and this is way better because its a much better world rendered at the res of those old games but it's still lower than the 1080p people expect as minimum today.

 

By the time it goes consumer it will be at least 1080p but not as sharp as that for many reasons. Still it will be way better than DK1. Read wags opinion of the HD oculus he tried.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

Possible 2D oculus setup for DCS

 

I'm going to try to make a new camera.lua that uses the same camera and places it side by side. I'm hoping this new lua file will show up and render a camera once and place it side by side for the rift.

 

This would be much faster but 2D. This would solve any issues people are having with crosseyed issues and double fps. Headtracking could still be used.

 

If this works it might be a nice way to play until they release a native oculus demo.

 

Also this would solve cockpit clicking issues.

 

 

Anyone know if this is impossible before I mess with it?

 

-michael

[hannibal]

It feels like your in a real cockpit real size in a real world.

your teleported inside your current dcs monitor and the scale is all good.

 

There are two major things the make the rift a game changing experience IMHO.

 

By the time it goes consumer it will be at least 1080p but not as sharp as that for many reasons. Still it will be way better than DK1. Read wags opinion of the HD oculus he tried.

 

ok, thank you for reply.

so your saying that the scale of the cockpit is good... :)

can you describe the scale of the world? the sky and so forth?

 

do you have a link to wags comments on DCS + oculus?

i have seen posts by Wags describing his amazing experience on the rift HD version and the Valve VR, BUT NOT on oculus + DCS specifically...

[maddabboyahoo.com]

ok, thank you for reply.

so your saying that the scale of the cockpit is good... :)

can you describe the scale of the world? the sky and so forth?

 

do you have a link to wags comments on DCS + oculus?

i have seen posts by Wags describing his amazing experience on the rift HD version and the Valve VR, BUT NOT on oculus + DCS specifically...

 

I was thinking of the same quotes you read. The valve vr and oculus HD comments.

I believe he like others said you can detect screen door still but you don't mind it. It just isn't something u notice as u are immersed.

 

I think some are more sensative to such things like motion. I can watch a track of others flying in the rift dogfighting as a passenger looking around on my own seperate from the way they flew and not get sick standing up. I pretty much started that way. I don't get motion sick and actually enjoy that drunk spinny feeling. I find that relaxing. That's a plus for using this for hours on end. I've only felt minorly ill after hours one or two times and even then was fine.

 

I have friends that have tried the headset on and looked sideways and got so sick he took it off before doing anything. That was the worst case. I've demoed LOTS.

 

So some people are really into little details. I started simming with an apple IIe with the sim that predated flight simulator 1. It was the WWI part of the game only and it was monochrome green on my computer. But I was flying! It was probably less that 1fps but I was flying and dogfighting the ai and dropping bombs. I played that for hours. So I am super freaking flying with the rift from where I came from. If your first sim is DCS on 1080P 60+fps then you have a differant viewpoint of what's acceptable. Everyone does.

 

I'm VERY happy in DCS right now with the DK1.

 

 

So scale. The best way to describe it is that scale is exactly as you've seen it in the game without the rift on your monitor. Exactly the same. It depends on your zoom settings and your monitor size and distance. The size things you've seen that are messed up are renders where they are not properly scaling the view into the rift for various reasons. The best way to prove this is to take a screenshot of what I see or movie but you can just do it yourself.

 

Set your view to stereo and keep your resolution the native monitor. The view should look good on each side scale wise not small. Note you'll be focused on the center of each side.

When I start the game I feel I must zoom in a touch to feel natural. But all is scaled correctly for all zoom levels in sync. There may be a default fov setting to locate to ideally set the starting fov.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

I tried your settings and it was a lot better than before,but still a little bit off,I think the views also have to be distorted/bowed a bit to have the proper viewpoint.

 

yes this is true and missing. I don't seem sensative to this but it is not corrected in stereo right now without nthusim. That is missing, i don't mind it but can see how most might.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

Not exactly that. He is referring to a mouse cursor that lives in the 3D world instead of the 2D screen space and when you move the cursor it moves inside the cockpit, not the screen.

 

I tried to emulate that idea controlling the mouse position with glovepie some time ago, but it was difficult to make it work accurately, and I was unable to find the maths to include the translation of the eyepoint, so only orientation was took into consideration. Still it was a lot easier to interact with the cockpit this way. I called it "panoramic mouse".

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=66500

 

I didn't include any "mouse dragging" because it was more intuitive knowing that the cursor will be wherever you left it. If you have to interact repeatedly with the same area of the cockpit you know the cursor will be there independently of where you look at between interactions. And when you want to move it from the left console to the right, you just keep moving the mouse until it appears on your view. But I use a trackball that makes those long cursor runs easier. I understand that with a regular mouse it can be a hassle.

 

I think this is a fantastic idea. I'd love to see it projected onto the cockpit mesh and left there. I'd like to to translate in screen space x-y but to stabilize and project onto the cockpit if this makes sense.

[hannibal]

im happy to hear you approve of the DK1 scale in DCS world.

i was disappointed to hear about the gaijan developers of warthunder who had to dumb down the cockpit so the user can see more outside of the cockpit to get situation awareness, because they said initially it felt like the player saw too much of the cockpit... but im real life that how it should be, i would think with older prop fighter planes, u are basically in a tub (war thunder is a WWII game)

 

maddabbo, where are you and when is your next demo? :D

[maddabboyahoo.com]

im happy to hear you approve of the DK1 scale in DCS world.

i was disappointed to hear about the gaijan developers of warthunder who had to dumb down the cockpit so the user can see more outside of the cockpit to get situation awareness, because they said initially it felt like the player saw too much of the cockpit... but im real life that how it should be, i would think with older prop fighter planes, u are basically in a tub (war thunder is a WWII game)

 

maddabbo, where are you and when is your next demo? :D

 

im in california not far from the DCS WWII's Ilya Shevchenko location.

 

I'm in Hollywood.

 

Next demo?

What do you want to see?

 

What aircraft?

What view?

What mode? (side by side like for rift?) or single side scaled?

 

If you have a rift you could be playing why need a demo? If you dont' then side by side would look wierd?

 

Want to see my head moving during demo?

 

What would you like to see happen in demo?

 

I won't have time until next week likely.

 

I have a party saturday where I'll be demoing the rift bigtime.

I have some tweaks to dcs I want to mess with but I could see setting up an external cam if you'd like to record me and then I could edit in a track playback. If i grab with fraps while playing I think the fps will stop. But I could record track and get any views after with my synced head movement. Is view of real me needed or you just want to see track?

 

-mikey

[hannibal]

I'm VERY happy in DCS right now with the DK1.

 

So scale. The best way to describe it is that scale is exactly as you've seen it in the game without the rift on your monitor. Exactly the same. It depends on your zoom settings and your monitor size and distance. The size things you've seen that are messed up are renders where they are not properly scaling the view into the rift for various reasons. The best way to prove this is to take a screenshot of what I see or movie but you can just do it yourself.

scale dont mean anything if it "looks" like what i see on the monitor ...

 

have you flew a plane before?

scale will be hard to describe if you havent flew.. but im sure you have drove a car or rode a bike.

i have used Oculus rift DK1, and

i tried HL2, Strike suit zero, and the highly praised titans of space,

and I am sorry to say that the scale is TERRIBLE.

i had more expectations for strike suit zero, the cockpit had depth, but i felt like i was in a go cart rather than a space fighter ship.

for titans of space, the planets were huge, but for me the scale felt like being in a meusem type huge, rather than me being near planets.

Half life 2 was impressive, the 3d effect was crazy...especially in the cutscenes when u are interacting with the characters...

 

i wish i drove the buggyin HL2...

 

other than that, i know rift release will be impressive, but scale will be a big factor for me to make me feel like i am in the plane or not.. and that scale will be up to the hands of ED/DCS

Edited January 31, 2014 by hannibal

[Burner_Tbird2]

I'm going to try to make a new camera.lua that uses the same camera and places it side by side. I'm hoping this new lua file will show up and render a camera once and place it side by side for the rift.

 

This would be much faster but 2D. This would solve any issues people are having with crosseyed issues and double fps. Headtracking could still be used.

 

If this works it might be a nice way to play until they release a native oculus demo.

 

Also this would solve cockpit clicking issues.

 

 

Anyone know if this is impossible before I mess with it?

 

-michael

 

I did it a few pages back.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1759390&postcount=327

 

From testing I came up with a similar eye_shift amount, the variable looks to be eye offset from center in meters. The default value of -0.06 or 60mm and by extention an IPD of 120mm looks to be completely wrong. I'm looking at both sides of the gun sight in the P-51. It just needs to be halved.

 

DCS users should adjust this variable according to their individual IPD, but I didn't see best results at my correct IPD offset, so YMMV until official support goes into the Beta. eye_shift=-0.032 is a good place to start.

 

Enjoy your Rift :thumbsup:

[maddabboyahoo.com]

I did it a few pages back.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1759390&postcount=327

 

From testing I came up with a similar eye_shift amount, the variable looks to be eye offset from center in meters. The default value of -0.06 or 60mm and by extention an IPD of 120mm looks to be completely wrong. I'm looking at both sides of the gun sight in the P-51. It just needs to be halved.

 

DCS users should adjust this variable according to their individual IPD, but I didn't see best results at my correct IPD offset, so YMMV until official support goes into the Beta. eye_shift=-0.032 is a good place to start.

 

Enjoy your Rift :thumbsup:

 

agreed but add to this that the dxview numbers must be 10x the initial amount not to be cross eyed in the distance.

 

from .01 to .1

[maddabboyahoo.com]

scale dont mean anything if it "looks" like what i see on the monitor ...

 

have you flew a plane before?

scale will be hard to describe if you havent flew.. but im sure you have drove a car or rode a bike.

i have used Oculus rift DK1, and

i tried HL2, Strike suit zero, and the highly praised titans of space,

and I am sorry to say that the scale is TERRIBLE.

i had more expectations for strike suit zero, the cockpit had depth, but i felt like i was in a go cart rather than a space fighter ship.

for titans of space, the planets were huge, but for me the scale felt like being in a meusem type huge, rather than me being near planets.

Half life 2 was impressive, the 3d effect was crazy...especially in the cutscenes when u are interacting with the characters...

 

i wish i drove the buggyin HL2...

 

other than that, i know rift release will be impressive, but scale will be a big factor for me to make me feel like i am in the plane or not.. and that scale will be up to the hands of ED/DCS

 

I think many issues you have with scale are due to the hacks we are making to support old games that are not created for the rift.

Content made correctly for the rift will not have this issue. Now what you think looks "correct" in the rift may be not be accurate. I have not flown planes personally but I do drive and even go to track days in my car. I also do lots of simulation. Any display setup correctly with good content can display correct scale.

 

For the rift this requires these things:

The content created for the world must be created all in the same units with no adjustments. The units don't matter as long is everything is accurately scaled and consistent in the world. This is especially true of cockpits and things we get close to in the world. Those must be the most accurate.

 

For a monitor it is easy to calculate the correct FOV knowing it's dimensions and where the user views it from. Then you must use that FOV in the game which the game can't know. You need to adjust the game for that and then scale would be correct on your 2d monitor. I've played iracing for years and you can setup the scale fov very easily to be reality and many do. Others like wide angle to compensate for the lack of peripheral vision on a monitor.

 

Here's where the rift shines. It's a known monitor, everyone gets the same size. It's always the same distance from the viewer wrapped around them. Everyones FOV is essentially know to the game maker and is the same. You simply need to adjust for the individuals IPD width and maybe for dominant eye and input there height and generic info like male/female they can add tweaks for neck movement but basically that's it. With your height and IPD looking through the rift would be scaled 1:1 with the real world like your there.

 

If we accurately laser scanned and built your sim cave and put your info in and rendered it on the rift you'd feel like you were in your cave in your cave. Stick you in a p-51 your are in there. Stick you in iracing you're there. Where it breaks is that you don't have zoom ability on your eyes. So they can default it to correct but they can also let you zoom in and out in a way you can't do without a telephoto lens. This can change your perception of scale like you mention. Old games not made for the rift have no correct FOV setting for the rift because that information wasnt' available so it is up to the user to set the correct FOV zoom level. Games made for the rift can either accurately represent scale or mess with it as they see fit. But in the end its up to the user to calibrate the experience correctly similar to calibrating your monitor to NTSC or getting accurate color out of your digital photo. Most won't care if its off a bit. Some content creators will use scale as a feature. A few users like you will demand accuracy. Good news is that DCS cares about accurate scale. Every model they make is very accurate. If you've seen the progress on the DCS WWII cockpits you'll see how much they love this stuff. So they will make it look right in the rift. Right now We just have to tweak it till we like it because we don't have what we need to make it "correct"

 

When it's native it will default to correct with your ability to zoom in and out as you see fit.

 

Does this make sense? The rift is like wearing a known monitor size and a known distance. It give the content creators a known FOV that everyone will experience so if they choose they can make everyone experience accuracy of scale every time.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

played all night

 

I played DCS all night

 

Mostly using the P-51 ground attack which I cant seem to get enough of. I love the ballistic drop of the bullets as the fall to earth.

 

So I messed with FOV and stereo settings as well as benchmarked and recorded tracks.

 

Bad news is each cockpit seems to require tweaked stereo settings the gunsights dont work at all for me in the huey but look perfect in the p-51 with my settings.

 

My latest settings are .1 for dxview and .03335 for eye_shift.

 

The P-51 FOV to look pretty much for me like 1:1 I'm in the cockpit and can reach out and touch everything with my hands is a FOV of 60. I found the button to save that and so it's easy to tweak snap views now.

 

That solved just about everything I needed to make DCS awesome for my rift at tleast for the P-51. The only thing that's weird now is cockpit clicks dont register and you need to hunt so I've just been learning the keys. and using keyboard.

 

I want to try to learn the huey weapon systems tomorrow I'm dying to try the mini-gun with track IR and rift 3d. It definatley moved with my looking almost like the reflex sight was an HMD. : )

 

cant wait to try the door gunner too.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

 

 

 

_ = function(p) return p; end;

name = _('Oculus');

Description = 'Configuration with 2 identical monitors side by side'

Viewports =

{

Left =

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = screen.width / 2;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 2;

},

 

Right =

{

x = screen.width / 2;

y = 0;

width = screen.width / 2;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 2;

}

}

 

 

UIMainView = Viewports.Center

 

 

S.

 

So this is actually a bit different that what I was attempting to do.

I wanted to make DCS render once and use the view twice. I'm not sure why you'd want a left and right view without 3d since your taking the hit of rendering both. My lua edit was using Center twice and shifting it to split the screen. I wanted DCS to render once and use 2x. Left and Right would be two render passes. The Center Center trick does not work. It renders it once and moves it 2x and you only see it in the final position.

[bongodriver]

Sim developers need to talk to the developers of Outerra, their oculus support is spot on perfection, the scale is perfect, near and far is perfect, many purpose made oculus demos still make my eyes feel a tiny bit strained but outerra simply feels like I put on a pair of ski goggles.

[hannibal]

Does this make sense? The rift is like wearing a known monitor size and a known distance. It give the content creators a known FOV that everyone will experience so if they choose they can make everyone experience accuracy of scale every time.

 

thank you for taking an opportunity to answer my question.

yes, it does make sense.

if your experience with DCS makes you feel like you are in an aircraft, then ill am glad to hear that.

I Just hate to see what happened with Hawken, happen to DCS.. where all the models, terrain and objects have to be re-create to fit to scale...

[hannibal]

Titans of Space warns the user several times that planets and stars are at 1:1million scale, so planet earth is roughly 12.5 meters in diameters and that's how it looks like. But many people is missing that warning and thinking that they should look like full sized planets and are disappointing.

 

lol. yea, i must have missed it.

i got to try it for 15 mins because someone was nice to host a rift party.

on top of that, the IPD was not adjust for me (because of a few guests)

so that didnt give me the best experience out of oculus DK1...

[blksolo]

Yeah,Outerra is outstanding with the rift,too bad I cant get my warthog throttle to work properly with it,its all over the place.

[hannibal]

Yeah,Outerra is outstanding with the rift,too bad I cant get my warthog throttle to work properly with it,its all over the place.

 

maybe outerra is limited to one joystick? (i am just guessing)

sometimes games only recognize one joystick...

if that is the case, then you have to use that PPJoyJoy utility...

[bongodriver]

Nope, outerra is no problem for my g940

[blksolo]

maybe outerra is limited to one joystick? (i am just guessing)

sometimes games only recognize one joystick...

if that is the case, then you have to use that PPJoyJoy utility...

 

My throttle works,it just constantly goes up and down wildly for no reason,its a known issue with Outerra I believe.