Bullet Weight

[MeerCaT]

Just wondering whether the cannon rounds have their weight modelled in the sim?

 

A single round probably weighs around 0.5kg so the standard loadout of ~1500 rounds would certainly amount to a noticeable weight (+750kg), equivalent to a couple of good sized bombs.

Enough to have an effect on the flight dynamics for sure.

 

(This came to mind recently while flying with one engine down at medium-high altitude struggling to maintain enough speed to make it over the surrounding mountain peaks. Jettison stores! ...and cannon?)

[cichlidfan]

Just wondering whether the cannon rounds have their weight modelled in the sim?

 

A single round probably weighs around 0.5kg so the standard loadout of ~1500 rounds would certainly amount to a noticeable weight (+750kg), equivalent to a couple of good sized bombs.

Enough to have an effect on the flight dynamics for sure.

 

(This came to mind recently while flying with one engine down at medium-high altitude struggling to maintain enough speed to make it over the surrounding mountain peaks. Jettison stores! ...and cannon?)

 

Look at the loadout section in the mission editor.

[GGTharos]

This is why they are palced near the COG :)

[Evil.Bonsai]

Just wondering whether the cannon rounds have their weight modelled in the sim?

 

A single round probably weighs around 0.5kg so the standard loadout of ~1500 rounds would certainly amount to a noticeable weight (+750kg), equivalent to a couple of good sized bombs.

Enough to have an effect on the flight dynamics for sure.

 

(This came to mind recently while flying with one engine down at medium-high altitude struggling to maintain enough speed to make it over the surrounding mountain peaks. Jettison stores! ...and cannon?)

 

Well, you can't really do a cannon-ectomy while flying, but I'm curious to know if shooting off all the rounds will lighten the load a bit. Granted, since the shells remain behind, all your losing is the weight of the projectile and the burned up powder. You get to keep the weight of all that brass.

[Cookie]

If you need to go that far then don´t forget to dump your chaff and flares as well. Gives you another 10 kg or so. ;)

[Darkwolf187]

It does lighten the load. Doesn't change the balance of the plane much due to the location of the rounds (in the central fuselage), but it certainly reduces the weight of the plane.

[cichlidfan]

You get to keep the weight of all that brass.

 

Actually, in this case I believe they are aluminum.

[Darkwolf187]

I have to admit, the way in which the CoG is calculated in A-10c is impressive. When I launched a Maverick while properly trimmed and the plane banked in the opposite direction from the wing the missile came off of, thought about it, and then realized what was happening, I was _really_ impressed that the ED team had thought of that.

[MeerCaT]

Come to think of it, I have seen videos of the cannon being used as a pretty effective 'reverse thruster', for emergency braking on short landings (carrier) and even to taxi backwards.

 

So the loss of speed that would result from firing all remaining rounds would probably negate the slight increase in lift gained from the reduced weight.

 

And good point about the casings remaining in the plane. I guess you wouldn't want to be raining down a lethal shower of metal onto your own troops while firing from above them.

(They say a penny dropped from <insert favourite skyscraper here> could kill a person. Imagine what 1000 of these things could do.)

[cichlidfan]

And good point about the casings remaining in the plane. I guess you wouldn't want to be raining down a lethal shower of metal onto your own troops while firing from above them.

(They say a penny dropped from <insert favourite skyscraper here> could kill a person. Imagine what 1000 of these things could do.)

 

The engines would likely inhale most of the shells before they had a chance to fall on someone, which is why they are kept inside the aircraft.

[joey45]

Most if not all planes keep the casings.. It's the Helis that lose it.

[Evil.Bonsai]

Come to think of it, I have seen videos of the cannon being used as a pretty effective 'reverse thruster', for emergency braking on short landings (carrier) and even to taxi backwards.

 

So the loss of speed that would result from firing all remaining rounds would probably negate the slight increase in lift gained from the reduced weight.

 

And good point about the casings remaining in the plane. I guess you wouldn't want to be raining down a lethal shower of metal onto your own troops while firing from above them.

(They say a penny dropped from <insert favourite skyscraper here> could kill a person. Imagine what 1000 of these things could do.)

 

The penny-thing is false. In a vacuum, the penny's speed would increase enough, maybe, to do that. The terminal velocity of a penny, combined with it's weight, just isn't enough do much damage. Would hurt, but not much more than that.

 

Also, was watching Generation Kill, and there's a scene where a Cobra attack helicopter was firing it's chain gun. The empty shells rained downed on the troops sitting below.

[Darkwolf187]

It's far more likely the casings are retained so they aren't at risk of either getting pulled into the air intakes (resulting in severe turbine damage) or striking other armaments on the plane.

 

Considering that the A-10 originally had problems with smoke from the gun being pulled into the engines and causing issues, I dare say spent casings would ruin someone's day :D

[marcos]

Just wondering whether the cannon rounds have their weight modelled in the sim?

 

A single round probably weighs around 0.5kg so the standard loadout of ~1500 rounds would certainly amount to a noticeable weight (+750kg), equivalent to a couple of good sized bombs.

Enough to have an effect on the flight dynamics for sure.

 

(This came to mind recently while flying with one engine down at medium-high altitude struggling to maintain enough speed to make it over the surrounding mountain peaks. Jettison stores! ...and cannon?)

The API rounds weigh 425g and the HEIs weigh 360g. The A-10C carries 1174 of them (1150 in the game).

Edited September 11, 2012 by marcos

[marcos]

Most if not all planes keep the casings.. It's the Helis that lose it.

Wonder if that means helis can use APFSDS rounds?

[Corrigan]

The API rounds weigh 420g and the HEIs weigh 360g. The A-10C carries 1174 of them (1150 in the game).

 

Does anyone know the reason for this discrepancy?

 

Or maybe the aircraft isn't always loaded to capacity?

Edited September 11, 2012 by Corrigan

[BlueRidgeDx]

The loading cart carries 575 rounds, so it just works out to 1150.

[Corrigan]

Once again really impressed by the level of thought put in to this sim. Thanks. :]

[Echo38]

So the loss of speed that would result from firing all remaining rounds would probably negate the slight increase in lift gained from the reduced weight.

No. The speed loss is temporary; the lift increase is permanent. (Until you re-arm, anyway.) Of course, if you're on one engine and at the deck, just above stall speed, then, yeah, the loss of speed would probably negate the increase of lift. ; )

[marcos]

Does anyone know the reason for this discrepancy?

 

Or maybe the aircraft isn't always loaded to capacity?

The magazine can hold 1174 rounds but 1150 is a typical loadout:

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/33574454/GAU-8-Avenger-cannon-used-by-A-10

[BlueRidgeDx]

The magazine can hold 1174 rounds but 1150 is a typical loadout:

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/33574454/GAU-8-Avenger-cannon-used-by-A-10

 

And the reason it's typical is because...

 

The loading cart carries 575 rounds, so it just works out to 1150.

[Pyroflash]

Wonder if that means helis can use APFSDS rounds?

 

IIRC they use HEDP for their ammo. No idea why this is, but I'd guess it has something to do with their slow speed and lower impact mass (M230 uses 30x113 as opposed to the GAU-8A's 30x173).

Edited September 11, 2012 by Pyroflash

[NC_Cyborg]

Just for the giggles, I loaded the aircraft with nothing but a full drum and the weapon weight came out to 1,775lbs. In the game, CM, HEI and training all weigh the same according to the loadout page.

 

That is 805kg for those across the pond.

Edited September 12, 2012 by NC_Cyborg

[Fishbreath]

Or about 125 stone. :P