Military and Aviation News Thread (NO DISCUSSION)

[mvsgas]

Is that actually going in the internal bay?

Yes, click on image to enlarge

Holloman AFB 3rd quarter loadcrew competition

 

Staff Sgt. Irma Hinton and Senior Airman Thomas Moore, 49th Aircraft Maintenance Squadron load team, prepare to attach a GBU-32 satellite navigation bomb to an F-22 Raptor during the third quarter loadcrew competition at Holloman Air Force Base, N.M., Oct. 12. The crews had to prepare the munitions and the weapons bay before loading them. The 49 AMXS loadcrew competed alongside the German Air Force Tornado and MQ-9 Reaper load crews, and the winner of the competition will be announced Oct. 17. (U.S. Air Force photo by Senior Airman DeAndre Curtiss/Released)

Photos: Load crews compete in second quarter competition

 

Senior Airman Vincent Miller, 49th Aircraft Maintenance Squadron F-22 Raptor weapons load crew member, inspects an inert GBU-32 Joint Direct Attack Munition bomb ensuring it’s secured during the second quarter load crew competition at Holloman Air Force Base, N.M., July 19. The F-22 load crew competed against MQ-9 Reaper and German Air Force load crews. For the competition, points are awarded during the weapons loading, tool kit inspection, and uniform inspection. (U.S. Air Force photo by Senior Airman Kasey Close/Released)

 

Supersonic for 3,200km? On internal fuel (18,000lb)

I don't think they meant it can do it supersonic with internal load, just one of its capabilities.

[Emu]

Yes, click on image to enlarge

Holloman AFB 3rd quarter loadcrew competition

 

Staff Sgt. Irma Hinton and Senior Airman Thomas Moore, 49th Aircraft Maintenance Squadron load team, prepare to attach a GBU-32 satellite navigation bomb to an F-22 Raptor during the third quarter loadcrew competition at Holloman Air Force Base, N.M., Oct. 12. The crews had to prepare the munitions and the weapons bay before loading them. The 49 AMXS loadcrew competed alongside the German Air Force Tornado and MQ-9 Reaper load crews, and the winner of the competition will be announced Oct. 17. (U.S. Air Force photo by Senior Airman DeAndre Curtiss/Released)

GBU-32 is 1,000lb.

[mvsgas]

Yes

[Emu]

So can it carry Mk-84s and GBU-31s internally or just GBU-32s?

[FoxHoundELite]

What the hellllllll!!!!!!!!

 

65th Aggressor Squadron falls prey to Nellis budget cuts

 

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/65th-aggressor-squadron-falls-prey-nellis-budget-cuts

[Jona33]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29434628

 

We've joined in over Iraq, no doubt people on the BBC comments section will be furious.

[mvsgas]

So can it carry Mk-84s and GBU-31s internally or just GBU-32s?

 

Both

 

What the hellllllll!!!!!!!!

 

65th Aggressor Squadron falls prey to Nellis budget cuts

 

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/65th-aggressor-squadron-falls-prey-nellis-budget-cuts

 

It has happened several times in the past.

[Pilotasso]

What the hellllllll!!!!!!!!

 

65th Aggressor Squadron falls prey to Nellis budget cuts

 

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/65th-aggressor-squadron-falls-prey-nellis-budget-cuts

 

This is just another news that US is once again like before gradually shifting away from high performance fast manuverable fighters.

 

It's sad, if anyone wants to form another fighter mafia group I'm in!!!! :D

Edited September 30, 2014 by Pilotasso

[Rangi]

Oh dear, one of my favorite aircraft might be a bit dodgy....

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/01/austria-eurofighter-idUSL6N0RW3IF20141001

[Emu]

Watch the missiles fall: British jets hit IS in Iraq - Channel 4 News

 

[Bucic]

Poland to get JASSM low observable cruise missile for its F-16s

http://www.defencetalk.com/us-approves-jassm-and-f-16-upgrade-sale-to-poland-60621/

[FoxHoundELite]

that thing is still flying?

 

 

http://theaviationist.com/2014/10/03/photo-f117-still-flying/

[GGTharos]

Yep, it's been known for a while that they're being flown and used for ... things. :D

[Emu]

Radar testing?

[FoxHoundELite]

Yep, it's been known for a while that they're being flown and used for ... things. :D

 

com'on tell me please :D

[GGTharos]

Radar testing?

 

 

You know all this blah-blah about flankers with IRSTs shooting down all the F-22's, and 'long wave radars' making stealth obsolete, not to mention plasma stealth, etc. etc.?

 

It's all BS. Every single bit for it, for a variety of reasons.

 

BUT! The USAF knows that its potential opponents are also creating stealth aircraft (because of all the above stuff being BS - stealth works :) ).

 

So, what's the best way of learning and training to fight against stealth opponents?

How about coming up with ways of detecting them - or even just participating in exercises where there is a stealth aircraft component. Also, testing various counter-measures used in conjunction with stealth, etc.

 

This way you're not pulling B-2's or F-22's off the line for such work.

 

 

Just speculation on my part :)

[Emu]

You know all this blah-blah about flankers with IRSTs shooting down all the F-22's, and 'long wave radars' making stealth obsolete, not to mention plasma stealth, etc. etc.?

 

It's all BS. Every single bit for it, for a variety of reasons.

 

BUT! The USAF knows that its potential opponents are also creating stealth aircraft (because of all the above stuff being BS - stealth works :) ).

 

So, what's the best way of learning and training to fight against stealth opponents?

How about coming up with ways of detecting them - or even just participating in exercises where there is a stealth aircraft component. Also, testing various counter-measures used in conjunction with stealth, etc.

 

This way you're not pulling B-2's or F-22's off the line for such work.

 

 

Just speculation on my part :)

It'd be interesting to trial an AMRAAM or Meteor shot against an F-117A-based drone, but also expensive, real expensive.

[GGTharos]

I read a fairly old paper detailing how the USAF was worried about radar guided missile performance and they are certainly worried about stealth aircraft.

 

Consider than an F-15 can't lock up an F-22 even if the pilot knows where it is, until the F_22 is WVR. This is without any fancy countermeasures being used by the Raptor.

 

This same radar can pick up a flanker at 80nm and a 120 has about a 13nm radar range against that same flanker, 6-7nm if you want to make it 'unspoofable'. Now translate this to the F-22 above.

 

An AESA radar will do a bit better, of course, but it's still bad news for the non-stealth opponent.

[NineLine]

I read a fairly old paper detailing how the USAF was worried about radar guided missile performance and they are certainly worried about stealth aircraft.

 

Consider than an F-15 can't lock up an F-22 even if the pilot knows where it is, until the F_22 is WVR. This is without any fancy countermeasures being used by the Raptor.

 

This same radar can pick up a flanker at 80nm and a 120 has about a 13nm radar range against that same flanker, 6-7nm if you want to make it 'unspoofable'. Now translate this to the F-22 above.

 

An AESA radar will do a bit better, of course, but it's still bad news for the non-stealth opponent.

 

 

I can imagine the meetings... "I am sure you guys are proud of yourself, making the F-22 so resistant to radar, now we need you guys to make a missile that will detect it" :)

[Darkwolf]

You know all this blah-blah about flankers with IRSTs shooting down all the F-22's, and 'long wave radars' making stealth obsolete, not to mention plasma stealth, etc. etc.?

 

It's all BS. Every single bit for it, for a variety of reasons.

 

 

I don't know about the others - but regarding IRST, why should it not work ? I saw a video of a F22 shot with a thermal camera, the thing isn't exactly very discreet.

 

I just can't place all the pieces - If a F22 uses its radar - it should be detectable ? So stealth is quite pointless in the end - unless you use your own radar at last moment, which finally isn't much better than irst ?

Not to mention that in the 60's they also believed in their radar/missile technology until ROE ****ed up everything. :D

 

 

 

I do not want an argument, not the place neither my intention. I know you know a lot - and i know that i know not that much :D I just would appreciate some more explanation to understand all this stuff- to improve my knowledge. :thumbup:

 

Thank you !

[GGTharos]

I saw a video of a F22 shot with a thermal camera, the thing isn't exactly very discreet.

 

Neither's an M-1A2 at 10meters, but once it's out to 500 meters, the experimental thermal coating rendered it invisible. The F-22 incorporates active cooling - never mind the fact that IRST is only good for maybe 20-30km of detection range typically ... by which time you have incoming missiles.

 

Same deal with radars for the F-22 - they can see it just fine ... at ranges 1/8th or 1/10th or less than what they see a conventional fighter at.

 

 

I just can't place all the pieces - If a F22 uses its radar - it should be detectable ?

You could have 4 F-15's looking for it. Now they know in what direction to look ... so what? The F-22 is still undetectable to your weapons systems while the F-22 is well inside Rtr ranges against you. (Incidentally, real exercises have 8 F-15's engaging 4 F-22's, and the F-22 will wipe out the F-15's every single time).

 

So stealth is quite pointless in the end - unless you use your own radar at last moment, which finally isn't much better than irst ?

So very pointless - while you're sitting there trying to follow that little symbol on RWR, your radar isn't doing anything useful for you, and suddenly you get a missile warning ... and it's too late :D

 

There's talk about using multiple aircraft for triangulation and launching your weapons with that manner of data ... but the little seeker on the missile still can't see the F-22 terribly well, so it can be jammed/decoyed or the F-22 can just be elsewhere when that seeker starts looking for it.

 

Not to mention that in the 60's they also believed in their radar/missile technology until ROE ****ed up everything. :D

Oh noes! The stealth plane has an ROE! What will it do? ( ... approach unseen, thus giving it an advantageous entry :D )

 

I do not want an argument, not the place neither my intention. I know you know a lot - and i know that i know not that much :D I just would appreciate some more explanation to understand all this stuff- to improve my knowledge. :thumbup:

 

Thank you !

Yep, fair enough. The really short answer is this: There are no magical counters to stealth. They don't exist, period.

 

When it comes to stealth, everything is about signature reduction - for the most part, reduction of signature against sensors that pose the most immediate threat - ie. missile guidance radars, missile seekers. This includes IR.

 

You can't see IR signals forever: They attenuate in the atmosphere. Likewise, you can reduce the IR signature of your aircraft. IRSTs aren't entirely useless here, but they are simply not very practical vs. an aircraft that's specifically trying to hide.

 

And for every argument of 'well it turned on its sensors, so now stealth is useless', I say 'Great, what are you going to do with the fact that it turned on its sensors? Know a direction to run away?' ... not to mention, how do you know that it isn't his wingman sitting 20nm back and relaying targeting via datalink? That's assuming he's not getting it from his AWACS already.

Edited October 3, 2014 by GGTharos

[shagrat]

not to mention, how do you know that it isn't his wingman sitting 20nm back and relaying targeting via datalink? That's assuming he's not getting it from his AWACS already.

The most important tactical advantage of modern fighter jets! I can even see specific cheap drones acquiring and relaying radar / targeting data to other planes...

The shooter today does not need to turn its radar on at all!

[GGTharos]

Depends on the shooter. I don't know about the most modern incarnations of AMRAAM, but generally speaking the actual missile datalink is generated by the shooter, transmitted through the radar.

[shagrat]

The Typhoon (Eurofighter) is capable of guiding a METEOR through the wingman (or any other plane in the correct link). The shooter can be near the enemy plane, launch the missile and disengage, while his wingy keeps a radar lock guiding the missile. At least I read something about these capabilities.

I guess it is likely updated AMRAAM could do the same. As far as I understood the missile locks on to a radar reflection until activating its own radar, so if the reflection has the correct "code" it would not need to come from the shooter...?

[GGTharos]

No ... nothing like that at all for the 120 or the Meteor.

 

It works something like this:

 

Shooter designates target.

Shooter pulls trigger/pickle/whatever.

The FCS uploads target data to the missile - position, vector etc.

The FCS generates the M-link, which is transmits for a given amount of time (until the missile is no longer operating) - each missile gets its own M-link channel.

The missile launches.

The missile uses the data in the M-link to correct course if necessary (And with the newest missiles, it sends info back to the shooter)

Once the missile is close enough to the target, it activates its own radar and searches. It uses the M-link to help sort out targets from other things in the area (other aircraft, countermeasures, etc).

Once the missile gets even closer, it changes PRF and is considered almost un-spoofable and un-jammable. Still uses M-link if necessary to sort out ECM/CM or possibly to help deal with a notching target.