DCS World Support Linux

[ZaltysZ]

They did it right (used OpenGL) and alas porting was a no-brainer for them.

 

Porting is no brainer (not exactly, but let say it is so), when your software architecture features loose coupling between its components and OS specific APIs. If not, porting can easily approach "writing from scratch", and unfortunately, tight coupling is not so uncommon. In addition, even if software architect was a genius, there still can be lots of difficult problems to solve: like OS specific scheduling and memory management issues.

[winz]

@PE_Tigar:

simply because Windows and Mac OS/iOS are much more focused on tablet and phone markets, and will neglect (or already are neglecting) desktop/workstation (or even full sized notebooks) as a platform. Long term, in my industry parlance, is five years let's say.

 

Except they can't. They have no way of forcing you, or their big customers or developers to switch to a new platform. Same way they were unable to force people to switch to windows vista.

 

Desktop is the platform where MS is unrivaled, it would be suicidal for them to ditch the platform they are strongest and hope they can somewhat get similiar profits from tablets/phones, where they have much much weaker position and much fiercer competition.

 

If PC gaming is realy dying (and this time for real), then switching to a platform with virtualy no market share will not save it. Because if noone sees profit in a platform as big as Windows, then noone sane will see profit in a platform as small and divided as linux.

 

If ED finds a distro that works for them, it requires no investment on the client side to install it or run it.

And BMS finds another distro that suits them. And developer XY finds another distro....

[Silver_Dragon]

other problem..... can or like ED "profesional" clients (military/et) switch to linux? that impossible.

[simtex]

other problem..... can or like ED "profesional" clients (military/et) switch to linux? that impossible.

 

Based on what facts?

 

They can very vell. Usually they buy "solutions" not software packages. Those may very well include everything they need to run the software.

 

Did you hear what the US military did with their UAV control software? They gave a multi-million dollar contract to Raytheon to port it from windows to linux.

 

If they want/need something they get is. Money is not important with an organisation this large. And as soon as the US military adopts something it becomes immedeately interesting to lot more countries (their allies).

[EtherealN]

other problem..... can or like ED "profesional" clients (military/et) switch to linux? that impossible.

 

There is nothing in Linux that prohibits the operation of military systems or software on it.

[EtherealN]

2. Market-wise, gaming on PCs, and even consoles, is in decline.

 

Was down 8% for 2011, but excludes online subscriptions, downloads, and F2P.

 

That's a HUGE hole. What the numbers are able to say is that we're seeing the same thing happen to "brick and mortar" game stores as has already happened to record stores. Nothing can be safely said about gaming overall on any platform, except that Console hardware sales have seen a slump (after long growth) - which is entirely to be expected since the current generation of consoles are so old that most everyone already has "current" hardware.

 

In the last 5-6 years I have made about 140 PC game purchases. Only 5 of them show up in those statistics.

 

Long term, in my industry parlance, is five years let's say.

 

We've heard about the death of this market for 10 years.

What happens is that growth is hit and might even see a rebound (but we'll see when new consoles hit) as a part of market share moves to other platforms, like mobile.

 

4. What does it mean for ED? With their long development cycles, they should look at the possibilities of a Linux port.

 

Look at it? Sure. But I definitely do not agree that Linux is anywhere near where it would have to be in order to become a "safe bet" of any sort. Valve can afford to bet money on it as a simple hedge, because their revenues are fantastic enough already that they can soak it if it goes south.

 

5. Due to its lack of IP burden, and lack of commercial interests driving the development, Linux can accommodate much better to what an application such as DCSW requires, not vice versa.

 

You forget that with Linux you have no uniform support structure to rely on as a developer. Eagle Dynamics already has access to quite a bit of open source middleware etcetera (see readme file) - this exists on Windows too.

 

If ED finds a distro that works for them, it requires no investment on the client side to install it or run it. Compare it with the current situation - if you want to run DCSW properly you need 64-bit Win 7. For some people those 100 or so US$ is a bit of an obstacle I'd say. 0 US$ for Ubuntu is no obstacle at all.

 

You are comparing to custom builds there. We who build our own PC's are a very small minority. Most people purchase a complete package, including OS. I have seen cases where there is no cost savings at all to get a whitebox from vendors - because whiteboxing means the machine has to be segregated from the standardised production line. It is hard to get good numbers there, but I've run into this when helping people select Dell systems etcetera. But it is important to note that the OS part of a vendor PC price is not the same as on a homebuilt.

 

On homebuilt systems, yes, there is a limited point. But homebuilders aren't the issue. There's just not that many of us. (We are a loud minority, basically.)

 

And the problem isn't to find a distro that works for ED. It is making sure customers have systems compatible with said distro - which isn't terribly hard, but imagine putting the people that actually do have issues with the current install procedure - I've seen cases of people not understanding that yes, they do need drivers for their video card, plenty of them - in charge of a Linux box that may or may not be of the "correct" distribution?

 

What needs to happen is some "distribution" needs to come along and basically take over. And it needs to have a solid support structure towards developers as far as validating drivers and middleware etcetera, because there's just no way ED can do this on it's own. Basically, someone needs to take desktop Linux and make an Android of it. THEN things can happen. As things stand, Ubuntu has been making a valiant stab at it, but they're still nowhere close enough - at least not with a 5-year forward view.

Edited November 20, 2012 by EtherealN

[ALDEGA]

if you want to run DCSW properly you need 64-bit Win 7. For some people those 100 or so US$ is a bit of an obstacle I'd say. 0 US$ for Ubuntu is no obstacle at all.

They can't afford a Windows license (Upgrade to Win8 Pro from XP or higher is available online for 30$ at the moment ...), but they can afford a powerful CPU, GPU, large amount of RAM, multiple high resolution screens, MFD's, TM Warthog Hotas, TrackIR ... required to properly enjoy DCS ...

[PE_Tigar]

@EtherealN - current gaming stats be what they may - the simple fact is that sales of desktops are in decline globally, and notebooks have just reached a plateau last year. Installed base of all PCs globally is probably around 1 billion and will decrease. Current gaming consoles are at 250 million or so installed base, by far the largest IB of all console generations - let's see what happens next. But the IB of smartphones, tablets and similar devices is at least 1.4 billion, and growing - and that's where M$ is going with Windows 8. More control, more mobility features, desktop as an afterthought. That's why Gabe Newell is hedging his bets, along with his distaste for Windows App Store or whatever this may be called. I'm just saying that looking into a possibility of a Linux port is reasonable, nothing more, nothing less.

 

@ALDEGA I'm more referring to people who have bought a Vista or a Win 7 32bit system, and are now forced to pay for a 64bit Windows. It's an additional cost with very little value - except being able to properly enjoy DCS which they've paid for already. Granted, this probably isn't a case with many people.

[112th_Rossi]

Just a couple of points:

 

1. Steam on Linux is an extension of Valve's position that Windows 8 is death to PC gaming. See more here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/07/26/windows-8-is-a-catastrophe-according-to-gabe-newell-valve-hedging-with-steam-on-linux/

 

2. Market-wise, gaming on PCs, and even consoles, is in decline. The way consoles took the market from PCs, the same way smartphones and tablets are taking it away from consoles. Ouya BTW is Android - basically guts of a smartphone/tablet, plus peripherals and better rendering (

)

 

3. Long term, all developers that can't port to tablets and phones, should look at Linux - simply because Windows and Mac OS/iOS are much more focused on tablet and phone markets, and will neglect (or already are neglecting) desktop/workstation (or even full sized notebooks) as a platform. Long term, in my industry parlance, is five years let's say.

 

4. What does it mean for ED? With their long development cycles, they should look at the possibilities of a Linux port.

 

5. Due to its lack of IP burden, and lack of commercial interests driving the development, Linux can accommodate much better to what an application such as DCSW requires, not vice versa. This is a much better situation to be in, both for a developer, or a user. If ED finds a distro that works for them, it requires no investment on the client side to install it or run it. Compare it with the current situation - if you want to run DCSW properly you need 64-bit Win 7. For some people those 100 or so US$ is a bit of an obstacle I'd say. 0 US$ for Ubuntu is no obstacle at all.

 

The big problem with that is, how do you convice new customers to install a new operating system they know nothing about just to play a game?

 

Not worth the effort.

[PE_Tigar]

The big problem with that is, how do you convice new customers to install a new operating system they know nothing about just to play a game?

 

Not worth the effort.

 

I'm not talking about right now, and I'm not talking about everyone, and I'm not talking about "use Linux or die". Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[ALDEGA]

I'm more referring to people who have bought a Vista or a Win 7 32bit system, and are now forced to pay for a 64bit Windows. It's an additional cost with very little value

You don't have to buy a new Windows license to reinstall the x64 version.

[EtherealN]

Unless they (pseudo-illegally) purchased an OEM disc or is one of the majority of users that got their OS from their PC vendor. (I think, I'm too busy to doublecheck that right now.)

[c0ff]

If we ever do a non-Windows port, OSX version is much more probable.

It's easy to understand why not Linux with a little of thought (I mean non-fanboy one).

[ALDEGA]

Unless they (pseudo-illegally) purchased an OEM disc or is one of the majority of users that got their OS from their PC vendor. (I think, I'm too busy to doublecheck that right now.)

Request x64 installation media from the vendor if the system was delivered without them ...

Technically you can use any Windows DVD, and manually activate the OEM license (certificate) ...

 

Getting off topic here though, isn't this a Linux thread? :D

[arteedecco]

If we ever do a non-Windows port, OSX version is much more probable.

It's easy to understand why not Linux with a little of thought (I mean non-fanboy one).

 

OSX would be a good middle-ground for sure and I would be in support of that effort.

 

I agree that the business decision behind a Linux port is *thin*, but then again people have been talking down on it for ages and yet it still grows and sees widespread use, so maybe someday it'll make sense.

[midju]

Why not a DCS Linux distro? Long term schedule? It must be Native.

 

Remember Ubunu etc.. Is not Linux. Only the Kernel is Linux.

Edited November 20, 2012 by midju

[simtex]

Why not a DCS Linux distro? Long term schedule? It must be Native.

Uhm ... no.

 

Remember Ubunu etc.. Is not Linux. Only the Kernel is Linux.

 

Well ... it's close enough ;)

 

As far as this discussion is concerned I herby define "running on Linux" as "running on a distribution that runs a linux kernel" ;)

[Gisen]

Valve is working on getting more steam games to work on linux, might even include DCS titles. Without the huge overhead of windows, with decent drivers, they actually get better FPS on the same machine under linux in e.g. team fortress.

 

Closed beta ongoing now, hopefully opening up soon!

 

Now the only problem is the useless starforce BS.

[Krippz]

Anyone test DCS World 1.5 with Wine?

[xaoslaad]

It won't work. It's too complex to be ported via wine and there's the activation issue.

 

That's a load of nonsense. The game might well run fine on Linux under WINE if it weren't for the starforce DRM. The old 1.1.1.1 games used to run perfectly right up until you hit fly and hit the protect.dll

 

What makes you think DCS is in any way any more complex than the myriad other modern games that run under WINE. There may be reasons it would be problematic to get your setup working under Linux, like lacking drivers and profiling software for the myriad specialized controllers people have for flight sims, but to say that WINE couldn't run DCS (if it weren't for the DRM) without trying is silly. There may very well be stuff not implemented that the game relies on, but how can anyone know that without looking that the code for both or trying with an unencumbered copy of the game.

Edited October 8, 2015 by xaoslaad

[codefox]

Would be awesome to see a Linux port of DCS but I don't think this is going to happen any time soon.

 

Remember Ubunu etc.. Is not Linux. Only the Kernel is Linux.

 

Ubuntu is not Linux? Who says that?

 

Edit: didn't even see the date of that post lol..

Edited October 8, 2015 by codefox

[xaoslaad]

Anyone test DCS World 1.5 with Wine?

 

DCS will never work under WINE because of the starforce DRM. The game will simply crash on calling the protect dll's, probably right at startup as is the case with 1.2

Edited October 8, 2015 by xaoslaad

[SharpeXB]

Steam Hardware Survey results for OS

 

Windows 95.71%

OSX 3.23%

Linux .94%

 

Those numbers speak for themselves.

[Mnemonic]

Pity about StarForce issue, managed to run Rise Of Flight under Wine (Ubuntu 14.04), max graphics, without noticeable performance hit, with full TrackIR support (LinuxTrack software), warthog and rudder pedals. Would love to try DCS on Ubuntu as well, but eh...

[giei]

Valve is working on getting more steam games to work on linux, might even include DCS titles. Without the huge overhead of windows, with decent drivers, they actually get better FPS on the same machine under linux in e.g. team fortress.

 

Closed beta ongoing now, hopefully opening up soon!

 

Now the only problem is the useless starforce BS.

 

NO

Only a couple of games developed by Valve currently have SIMILAR performance on linux (TF2 and hl2).

Only because Valve invest lots of money and time to try to get blood from a turnip for marketing purpose (SteamOS linux distro).

Linux is not an os for gaming and an extremely profitable investment in short or long term.