EGI damaged, what to do??

[HugePanic]

Hi,

 

i had several times the EGI damaged due to AAA/SAM.

 

So i did not get naviagion information on the TAD.

The existing waypoints in the HUD were still available.

 

To be sure i asked for a vector for RTB and got the plane repaired.

After that, the STAT page said that all is good now.

 

but somehow it wasn´t.

The waypoints in the HUD showed a different location than the TGP (TGP look to waypoint).

HUD display anyhow was weird.

 

Both speed indication (hud + instrument) showed crappy information.

 

The CDU seemed to work. (i don´t know all of the CDU´s functions, but it look good on the first view)

 

I know that some system don´t get repaired (speed probe...).

 

My question is:

What to do if EGI is damaged?

Do i have secondary systems that i can activate, and are there drawbacks?

Do i have to abort the mission?? (without TAD, i have no map to navigate "manually" with compass and stop-swatch)

 

Thank you

[Eight Ball]

I know that some system don´t get repaired (speed probe...).

 

Where did you get that from ? AFAIK everything is repaired when you shut down the engines and wait long enough (IIRC 180 sec)

 

As for the EGI can't help you much, have you tried restarting it and/or reloading the mission data ?

Edited January 11, 2013 by Eight Ball

[Madone]

If your EGI is out, there's no back up for it. But there's an other different and older system called HARS which can work. It's really an old navigation system but it will get you back to home!

Refer to the manual to learn how to use HARS, it's long to explain, you can also read the emergency procedures?

[HugePanic]

Where did you get that from ? AFAIK everything is repaired when you shut down the engines and wait long enough (IIRC 180 sec)

 

I don´t find the list right now.

I just know when i have an engine fire, i am almost never able to restart one of engines. It is stuck at 30% RPM. This seems to be a known bug, since the engine will not get repaired right.

At the same time i found that, i also saw a list of "not repaired items". There i found the speed-probe...

 

That seems reasonable, sind the STAT said that everything was good, but the speed was horrible wrong, as was the navigation stuff...

 

 

To the EGI:

i used a emergency checklist i found on here:

http://www.perlundblad.se/3para/DCS%20Games/PDF/A-10C/25th_VFS_Checklists_Emergency_Procedures.pdf

 

That says just to turn off the EGI and switch on HARS. But it doesn´t say how to navigate. Is TAD working? Can i trust the waypoints selectable in the HUD?

[Madone]

Wait are you talking about mid air engine restart?

 

The HARS is page 453 in the flight manual.

Actually the HARS is set automatically when the EGI isn't working, you have to know that will remove :

HUD (pitch/roll, TVV)

ADI function

TACAN heading data

HSI heading data

and it doesn't like the manoeuvers at all.

 

Look into the manual page 454, it explained how to set it up correctly, it has to be synchronized.

It's just back up system so don't expect to get a new airplane mid air... same about the repairs, you can't restart an engine after a fire.

 

PS : the TAD should work it has nothing to deal with the EGI.

[Rongor]

Wait are you talking about mid air engine restart?

 

The HARS is page 453 in the flight manual.

Actually the HARS is set automatically when the EGI isn't working, you have to know that will remove :

HUD (pitch/roll, TVV)

ADI function

TACAN heading data

HSI heading data

and it doesn't like the manoeuvers at all.

 

Look into the manual page 454, it explained how to set it up correctly, it has to be synchronized.

It's just back up system so don't expect to get a new airplane mid air... same about the repairs, you can't restart an engine after a fire.

 

PS : the TAD should work it has nothing to deal with the EGI.

From where does the TAD receive it's position coordinates? Maybe the TAD is the only thing that wont continue to work properly.

 

Why should the TACAN refuse to work? The TACAN doesnt work with the EGI at all...

Also ADI and HSI and even the HUD will continue to work if feeded by HARS.

Even the HUD will keep on displaying attitude informations.

Also the standby ADI to the right of the AHCP will work.

[Eight Ball]

I just know when i have an engine fire, i am almost never able to restart one of engines. It is stuck at 30% RPM. This seems to be a known bug, since the engine will not get repaired right.

At the same time i found that, i also saw a list of "not repaired items". There i found the speed-probe...

 

IIRC it's not a bug. After the repair you need to push the corresponding ENG OPER switch (just above the APU Switch in the cockpit) to the IGN position (up) and maintain for at least 30 sec. this will purge residual fuel in the engine. After that you should be able to restart properly.

You can see them here, almost in the middle of the pic

And IIRC, again but really not sure about this one, if you need to do a windmill restart (restarting an engine in mid-air without the APU), after purging the motor you would put the corresponding ENG OPER switch to the MOTOR postion (down) and dive for several thousand feet. The engine should restart by itself.

Don't mark my word and look for windmill restart if you want to know more about it

 

I'd be curious to see that list, I'm playing the game for 2 years and hhave had hundreds of repair without ever noticing something not being fixed.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Eight Ball

[sobek]

IIRC it's not a bug. After the repair you need to push the corresponding ENG OPER switch (just above the APU Switch in the cockpit) to the IGN position (up) and maintain for at least 30 sec. this will purge residual fuel in the engine. After that you should be able to restart properly.

 

THis applies only to being on the ground. In the air there is no chance of fuel pooling up inside the engine as it will immediately get expelled.

 

When on the ground and you need to motor (purge) the engine, you need to put the ENG OPER switch in the motor position. IGN stands for ignition, and you don't want that when the engine is flooded with fuel. ;)

[Madone]

From where does the TAD receive it's position coordinates? Maybe the TAD is the only thing that wont continue to work properly.

 

Why should the TACAN refuse to work? The TACAN doesnt work with the EGI at all...

Also ADI and HSI and even the HUD will continue to work if feeded by HARS.

Even the HUD will keep on displaying attitude informations.

Also the standby ADI to the right of the AHCP will work.

 

Did you read the manual?

[Dejjvid]

Madone, it's great that you want to help other members, but you need to double check what you are writing.

 

Yes there is a bug with engine repairs. It doesn't matter if you motor the engine 5 times and hold IGN while starting. It doesn't work. And there are other issues with the repair too, such as CDU/EGI not working after repair.

 

And TCN has nothing to do with HARS/EGI. Please make sure you read the manual again.

[Hamblue]

If my EGi is damaged after repair I simply restart all systems and let it go through the allignment. Should clear any problems.

[Eight Ball]

THis applies only to being on the ground. In the air there is no chance of fuel pooling up inside the engine as it will immediately get expelled.

 

When on the ground and you need to motor (purge) the engine, you need to put the ENG OPER switch in the motor position. IGN stands for ignition, and you don't want that when the engine is flooded with fuel. ;)

:doh: looks like I got it all mixed up...

Thanks Sobek !

[Rongor]

Did you read the manual?

Indeed. The only thing absolutely depending on the EGI is the Enhanced Attitude Control on the LASTE panel. This can and will affect the PAC assist and the functionality of the LAAP. Also (not sure but to be expected) the gun funnels and CCIP/CCRP calculations in the HUD will stop, as the IFFCC may need the precise data from EGI to produce these solutions.

[The LT]

Did you read the manual?

 

Rongor is right. The flight instruments like HSI and ADI should work with HARS as a backup system, and they do work if you do a cold-start, you'll notice them come alive before the EGI system is online.

 

Also, TACAN and ILS should also work as they don't rely on HARS or EGI, but instead on functional radio equipment. :)

[The LT]

Indeed. The only thing absolutely depending on the EGI is the Enhanced Attitude Control on the LASTE panel. This can and will affect the PAC assist and the functionality of the LAAP. Also (not sure but to be expected) the gun funnels and CCIP/CCRP calculations in the HUD will stop, as the IFFCC may need the precise data from EGI to produce these solutions.

 

I believe the EAC switch will become automatically disengaged if EGI malfunctions! I also believe CCIP would work but don't quote me on it, I'll double-check.

[Rongor]

The flight instruments like HSI and ADI should work with HARS as a backup system, and they do work if you do a cold-start, you'll notice them come alive before the EGI system is online.

I don't know if military aviation holds different standards but in civilian planes the ADI doesn't require any 2D/3D navigation reference system at all, as the ADI has it's own built-in gyro. The HSI simply displays bearings of radio beacons or radials of omnidirectional beacons and the output oft the TACAN interrogations receiver. So also no need for a reference system. The "compass function" of the HSI should be coupled only to the magnetic sensors. EDIT: only thing affected here would be a missing pointer to waypoint coordinates, this would of course require directional data of a navigations system.

 

I believe the EAC switch will become automatically disengaged if EGI malfunctions!

Exactly.

 

I also believe CCIP would work but don't quote me on it, I'll double-check.

Would be cool if you could check this with CCIP and the gun funnel. I am not able to investigate this since I am not in reach of my beloved A-10 until at least a week :(:helpsmilie: Edited January 11, 2013 by Rongor

[Madone]

Yes my mistake, I read wrong the sentence "When is active, it provides or removes the following data". Well I never used that system and will certainly never do. Next time I'll shut up :D

[The LT]

Would be cool if you could check this with CCIP and the gun funnel. I am not able to investigate this since I am not in reach of my beloved A-10 until at least a week :(:helpsmilie:

 

I did a check on the modes, the CCIP and CCRP, Gun Funnels don't work in HARS mode and don't require EAC to operate, only LASTE and PAC does, apparently...

 

Somehow that makes me wonder how the earlier A-10's employed their delivery modes, obviously they did not have EGI and only had HARS, but I'm not well versed in these matters.

 

Any ideas?

[Eddie]

Before they were upgraded with CCIP, it was all done in HARS with manual bombing using the depressible pipper. No CCIP or CCRP at all.

 

If you want to get an idea what it was like flying an A-10A in the early 80s, switch to HARS, loose the TGP and ignore the MFCDs as much as you can.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Eddie

[Rongor]

I did a check on the modes, the CCIP and CCRP, Gun Funnels don't work in HARS mode and don't require EAC to operate, only LASTE and PAC does, apparently...

Thanks for the checking.

According to the results I assume CCIP,CCRP and PAC(+gun funnel) require EAC and hence don't work with HARS since HARS disables EAC...;)

 

If you want to get an idea what it was like flying an A-10A in the early 80s, switch to HARS, loose the TGP and ignore the MFCDs as much as you can.

No way, I am a blunt MFCD junkie!:pilotfly: Edited January 12, 2013 by Rongor

[The LT]

Thanks for the checking.

According to the results I assume CCIP,CCRP and PAC(+gun funnel) require EAC and hence don't work with HARS since HARS disables EAC...;)

 

No way, I am a blunt MFCD junkie!:pilotfly:

 

Nope, sorry for not being clear: CCIP and CCRP require EGI, but not EAC. PAC on the other hand requires EAC, which, in turn, requires EGI to be operational. HARS seems to be only good for feeding the ADI and for the TADS functionality.

 

That's how I see it... :)

[dumgrunt]

Nope, sorry for not being clear: CCIP and CCRP require EGI, but not EAC. PAC on the other hand requires EAC, which, in turn, requires EGI to be operational. HARS seems to be only good for feeding the ADI and for the TADS functionality.

 

That's how I see it... :)

 

That must be specific to the C model, since LASTE (and CCIP) were in a block upgrade well before EGI was introduced in the A model. Maybe in the C model its to do with the IFFCC? but regardless in sim you lose EGI, you loose CCIP.

 

What I do if I loose EGI, I just use the map the ruler and get a heading to the divert, however being proficient in the "legacy" nav systems is something I am aiming for at the moment.

[Ich666]

Shouldnt it be possible to use CCIP if you manually set an elevation for the target?

[Rongor]

Shouldnt it be possible to use CCIP if you manually set an elevation for the target?

You also need precise coordinates of the target and precise coordinates and height of your ship all the time the IFFCC is doing the CCIP calculations. Obviously the HARS doesn't deliver this accuracy the EGI has.